Watching today it strikes me what Boris Johnson really needs on his side is a well-respected QC on his side. Anyone know what happened to Dominic Grieve or Ken Clarke?
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PMQ - Boris v Starmer - Spider And The Fly
- Thread starter Tom Hark Preston Park
- Start date
I think what these recent Parliament Debates has shown is what a farce the House of Commons is.
Under normal circumstances after a one line flippant response by Johnson to a very serious question he sits back down.
His one line response had addressed nothing; however, had the House been full. He would have got away with it because there would have been loads of whooping and cheering and he could have hidden himself behind that whooping and cheering..
The empty House allows for questions to be asked seriously without such questions and answers being mocked and ridiculed.
Commons should be learning from this and I think it should be totally overhauled.
Members should run the risk of being sent out of the House for shouting down speakers. It will allow us to then hold them accountable.
This will not happen and it will go back to a Barbarian Brawl.
I am no Johnson fan but he will fair better against Starmer when the Barbaric Rabble resumes. He can go back to little one liners and run away . A bit like Gorilla Warfare.
He isn't in the same League as Starmer but his weaknesses will be less exposed in a Fuller House of Commons
Under normal circumstances after a one line flippant response by Johnson to a very serious question he sits back down.
His one line response had addressed nothing; however, had the House been full. He would have got away with it because there would have been loads of whooping and cheering and he could have hidden himself behind that whooping and cheering..
The empty House allows for questions to be asked seriously without such questions and answers being mocked and ridiculed.
Commons should be learning from this and I think it should be totally overhauled.
Members should run the risk of being sent out of the House for shouting down speakers. It will allow us to then hold them accountable.
This will not happen and it will go back to a Barbarian Brawl.
I am no Johnson fan but he will fair better against Starmer when the Barbaric Rabble resumes. He can go back to little one liners and run away . A bit like Gorilla Warfare.
He isn't in the same League as Starmer but his weaknesses will be less exposed in a Fuller House of Commons
Iggle Piggle
Well-known member
- Sep 3, 2010
- 5,967
Mr putty face , leaning on blame how convenient
Regards
DF
Whilst you posted this, you missed the Tank programme on BBC2.
Regards
IP
*Gullsworth*
My Hair is like his hair
Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
Johnson doesn't care about knowing the law. The Speaker warned him last week that broadcasting to the nation on Sunday was against Parliamentary procedure but he went ahead. It breaks the ministerial code. He is not a president as much as he likes to think he is. Dominic Cummings is still in contempt of Parliament and refuses to answer to committee.
The arrogance will be their downfall as other Tory MPs are starting to turn against him.
rogersix
Well-known member
- Jan 18, 2014
- 8,202
convert the houses of parliament into a hotel and build a circular building in the midlands somewhere, it might help
oh, and guerrilla (soz)
Iggle Piggle
Well-known member
- Sep 3, 2010
- 5,967
3 months ago, I'd say that was bang on the money. I'm not so sure now. I think the public will forgive the inept start to the pandemic - even with the benefit of Italy being 2 weeks ahead of Corona - but I don't think they will if the economy recovery is put ahead of lives in the next few weeks and this backfires. Boris is in the middle of his most important political period and I think he is getting it wrong albeit I'll happily admit I'm wrong (for the record I voted for neither Corbyn or Boris but if i had to vote for either last time round it would have been Boris even though I am on the left side of centre)
Brexit will be forgotten at the next General election. Its almost forgotten now. Funny how things can move so quickly.
Billy the Fish
Technocrat
I'm a bit late to the party in this thread and CBA to read the whole thing.
I'm not convinced PMQs makes that much difference. Most people don't watch it, all they see is the clips and soundbytes.
William Hague used to regularly trounce Blair at PMQs but it got him nowhere near at the ballot box.
I'm not convinced PMQs makes that much difference. Most people don't watch it, all they see is the clips and soundbytes.
William Hague used to regularly trounce Blair at PMQs but it got him nowhere near at the ballot box.
beorhthelm
A. Virgo, Football Genius
- Jul 21, 2003
- 36,025
current PMQ is similar to the normal parliamentry business, regular PMQ is a lot of grandstanding.
There is no disputing anything you wrote.
The real crimes in all of that was that his Party still voted him as Leader of his Party and that the British Public still voted for him
It is pretty easy to win a PMQ at the moment driving from the backseat. You can criticise for coming out of lockdown too soon or too late. Either way a recession is coming you can blame on the Gov or a death toll. For me I will judge him on how well he reigns in his party they have started to get a bit gobby despite his directions to them. Constant derision and undermining of messages meant to get us through this will wear thin in the end.
Sending people back to work will mean more will die. Restarting the Premier League will mean more people will die. These are not easy decisions to make and some are implying it is easy.
Not one party represents me now. Used to think it was Liberal but I would die in a fire rather than vote for one of them again.
Sending people back to work will mean more will die. Restarting the Premier League will mean more people will die. These are not easy decisions to make and some are implying it is easy.
Not one party represents me now. Used to think it was Liberal but I would die in a fire rather than vote for one of them again.
Tom Bombadil
Well-known member
Interesting to see how elements of the Tory press are drifting away from Johnson, and following that performance openly praising Starmer. Boris has made a lot of enemies who were willing to swallow their pride for electoral success. As his halo starts to slip there's more than one journalist ready to help ambitious mps stab hm in the back
While true nobody is going to stab anyone in the back till it looks like this is over or they would have to take over.
This is true. I've mentioned this before but it's now highly relevant - Johnson is deeply disliked by his fellow MPs (I've heard this from too many sources). When the going gets tough and he looks to his friends for support ... he won't find many
Machiavelli
Well-known member
Yes, and it will have such a wide remit, with specific instructions to focus in on:
-- the funding of relevant public services (NHS and, especially, social care) for the preceding decade
-- the level of emergency preparedness for something flagged up with a 2% likelihood of occurring on an annual basis
-- the speed with which the government responded to developments in Asia in Jan/Feb, and the advice from WHO during this period
This thread isn't about criticism of what they've done. It's about BoJo the Clown telling an immediately disprovable (by No.10 even) lie. As with many of these things, it's not the mistake that gets you, but the cover up. If he had just said something like 'not sure what you are quoting from, let's have a look', fine. But to say that the guidance did not say what it patently did say is just a ridiculous thing to do.
Precisely.
Agree with your comments re top barristers.
Several years ago, in the course of our business, we had occasion to employ a barrister to represent us. I had never before even met a barrister and was just astounded how quickly he took on board all the relevant information without getting out of first gear, so to speak.
Wow, so impressive.
He was a mere Q.C.at the time(I obviously say that in jest!). He is now a High Court Judge and ,of course, a Sir!
Oh to be so bloody clever!
Not long ago I spent a solid six months putting together a 80+ page report of carefully crafted argument, with 1000+ pages of relevant appendices backing it all up. The Barrister flicked through it like you used to with those books with pictures on the corner that made a movie - turned to me, and explained to me what my argument was, where it could have been stronger, and how we could defend it in the forthcoming Judicial Review. Amazing.
jakarta
Well-known member
Years ago I was possibly going to have to do expert witness Court Work in the field I was working in (Asbestos) so was sent on an Expert Witness Course. This went swimmingly until we had a session with a Barrister who tied me in Knots even though I had nearly 20 years experience. He picked apart my case and made me look like I knew nothing about it and he knew everything. When the session was over he smiled at me and said You do know I will have forgotten everything about Asbestos by the time I have Supper? Big Brains, not sure about their motivation or morality?
When I did jury service, the CPS Barrister - who I think was fairly new - completely and utterly dismantled the defendant, his witnesses and his barrister over the course of the two weeks. It was fascinating, and mightily impressive, to watch him deconstruct the defence piece by piece - often picking up on the tiniest detail and bringing it up several days later to prove a point. Poor defendant never stood a chance.
I did, however, once work with a former barrister who was in a compliance role. He was utterly useless.
There are just as many incompetent ones.
Your example is an interesting one though.
I would have had concerns that someone could flip through a lengthy document like that and be able to take everything in so quickly and not potentially overlook any fine technical points.
I don't say he couldn't because some people just can skim read things and form good judgement.
I often have to read and assess and appraise Legal contracts and documents but I am quite slow at digesting the information.
My eventual appraisal is usually thorough if I take my time. So much so that my Boss often asks. "Why did you spend so much time on that contract" ?
To which I respond "Do you want it done right or do you want it done quick - you can't have both " !
From reading various alt right twitter accounts since PMQs it seems the method of attack on Starmer will be the accusation that he failed to prosecute either Saville, or the Asian rape gangs at the earliest opportunity.
I would have thought the Saville line would be risky for his accusers as it was under Thatchers Government he was knighted, and one of the lawyers representing the victims of the rape gangs has said Starmer was an absolute diamond.
It will be interesting if the MSM take up this line of attack.
The other option for them seems to be, “ How can a rich lawyer represent the ordinary working man?”
It seems that they don’t realise his father was a tool maker, and his mother a nurse.
I would have thought the Saville line would be risky for his accusers as it was under Thatchers Government he was knighted, and one of the lawyers representing the victims of the rape gangs has said Starmer was an absolute diamond.
It will be interesting if the MSM take up this line of attack.
The other option for them seems to be, “ How can a rich lawyer represent the ordinary working man?”
It seems that they don’t realise his father was a tool maker, and his mother a nurse.