[Albion] Plan B (Counter Attack)

[The Fits]

It’s not rocket science because other sides overcome it. Attack with pace move the ball quickly and stop trying to pass through the eye of a needle.

And stop purposely slowing everything down at GK and CB which is being picked up more and more by pundits. We choose to do the opposite of what we should be doing and what appears to work- we always look ten times better when everything is done at pace.

 

[AstroSloth]

You can’t counter attack at home against a side set up like Everton because they’re not going to get sucked into it.

Exactly, it's all well and good to say we should be counter attacking, but that requires the opposition to play into that as well which the teams we've struggled against at home won't do as they also want to hit us on the counter.

 

[Seagull58]

What would width have done? Any crosses into the box were dealt with easily by their defenders, are you suggesting more of the same?

Get to the goal line and cut the ball back on the floor, like Mitoma used to before he stopped going past players.

 

[Justice]

Enciso would have been the perfect player yesterday he’s unpredictable and not scared to have shot.
Enciso every time over Gruda

 

[Seagull58]

I’d play two big men up front, pump it long over their block and try and win the second ball

or play Lamptey up front and cross the ball underneath them as they jump

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

Breaking down a Low Block has been a problem for us for many a year. We have major problems in breaking down a side that is happy to ”Park the Bus”

I understand that we have very much become a possession based side in recent years, but imho we need to be more flexible with our methods when we play against different sides with a more negative attitude.
We have incredible pace and skill in our front line but with no space to operate in, it is hard for them to influence things.
Would it hurt to adopt a more Counter Attacking approach to playing such negative sides? They would then have to play more and invariably gaps would appear for us to attack. Forest are the masters of this in the current season… they sit back, soak it up and then hit on the counter at break neck speed.

Im not saying this should be our default way to play but I absolutely see it as an option as a way to create space and break down those sides that don’t want to play.

You mention incredible pace, which I agree at individual physical level but we are probably one the slowest teams in transition to get the ball forward.

We overplay and go sideways thus allowing the defence who we’ve managed to briefly overload get back and organise.

On top of this we are for reason frightened to shoot from outside the box.

This (at home anyway) has been the same across the last 3 managers bar a few games when it clicked under potter, and a season under RDZ before he was found out tactically.

Look at what muff did to Forest yesterday with let’s be honest similar personnel to us.

 

[Super Sub]

I agree Paulie… I was referring to individuals rather than the team play.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

Really? Are there quicker fullbacks in the Premier League than Mitoma and Minteh?
I understand that Welbeck and Pedro will be outpaced by a few centre halves, but not many.

Mitoma isn't especially quick.
His acceleration ovrer 10 yards when he gets his opponent off balance is devastating.
But as a counter attacking fullback sprinting 50 yards. Nothing excrptional.

Minteh, I'm not sure about.

Baleba is quick though.

 

[Bodian]

In the second half yesterday, there was one moment when Everton committed players forward (just the one I think!). We won the ball, played it out speedily to JP (I think) on the half-way line.

He took it forward, then stopped - came back, waited a bit - then passed it sideways.

By which time Everton had 11 back in the box again.

So - inviting the opposition to attack, so we can counter-attack, will only work if we do actually counter-attack. We seemed really good at this at the beginning of the season, but it seems to have drifted away.

 

[Jeremiah]

You mention incredible pace, which I agree at individual physical level but we are probably one the slowest teams in transition to get the ball forward.

We overplay and go sideways thus allowing the defence who we’ve managed to briefly overload get back and organise.

On top of this we are for reason frightened to shoot from outside the box.

This (at home anyway) has been the same across the last 3 managers bar a few games when it clicked under potter, and a season under RDZ before he was found out tactically.

Look at what muff did to Forest yesterday with let’s be honest similar personnel to us.

On the highlights BMuff scored with two shots from long range - something we are not even prepared to try (except Baleba - who is not very good at it)

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

What would width have done? Any crosses into the box were dealt with easily by their defenders, are you suggesting more of the same?

Stretched them out of shape, isolated full backs, offered overloads in wide areas with attacking full backs giving our wingers multiple options in possession which they don’t currently have, open up space in the middle.

There’s so many benefits.

The problem is that our wide men are never high enough and we don’t work the ball to them quickly enough.

 

[Bodian]

On the highlights BMuff scored with two shots from long range - something we are not even prepared to try (except Baleba - who is not very good at it)

But according to this table, we have had 325 shots - and the average distance of those shots is 17.5m - third highest in the PL.

Premier League Shooting Stats | FBref.com

Check out Shooting Stats for the 2024-2025 Premier League season.

fbref.com

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Stretched them out of shape, isolated full backs, offered overloads in wide areas with attacking full backs giving our wingers multiple options in possession which they don’t currently have, open up space in the middle.

There’s so many benefits.

The problem is that our wide men are never high enough and we don’t work the ball to them quickly enough

Not quite sure where to start with this but I totally disagree. Teams like Everton are well drilled to not lose shape and want you to run down the wing and try to put a cross in…it’s meat and potatoes to their 6 foot plus 2 or 3 center backs.

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

Not quite sure where to start with this but I totally disagree. Teams like Everton are well drilled to not lose shape and want you to run down the wing and try to put a cross in…it’s meat and potatoes to their 6 foot plus 2 or 3 center backs.

No one says you have to loop high awful crosses into the box just because you play with width. This isn’t the 1970s.

Football at its heart is a simple game. It’s about creating space when attacking and minimizing space when defending. You can do that vertically or laterally, or both. Lateral space = width.

Why on Earth would you narrow the pitch down when they have 10 narrow players in front of you, packed into a defensive formation? In fact, a large part of our problem yesterday was that we narrowed the pitch, particularly in the second half with Veltman in his pointless narrow full back role, and Georgino brought on to play so centrally that he spent the second half inside JP and Welbeck. The only width was coming from Lamptey, who incidentally was probably our best attacker on the day, because he had space to run into due to said width. The problem, of course, is that FH is tactically inept and brought on a left footed winger (Minteh) to replace Lamptey, further narrowing the pitch and game down, and making it more difficult for us to break them down, even though he didn’t want to shoot from range. We spent a good portion of the second half with right footed Veltman and Mitoma on the left, and left footed Minteh and Georgino (who wasn’t really on the right) on the right. It’s tactical nonsense.

But hey, if you disagree with that, fair enough. We all see the game differently.

 

[Weststander]

Not quite sure where to start with this but I totally disagree. Teams like Everton are well drilled to not lose shape and want you to run down the wing and try to put a cross in…it’s meat and potatoes to their 6 foot plus 2 or 3 center backs.

I agree. “We should have more width and put it in the mixer” conjures up grainy images of Matthews and Finney setting up Lofthouse.

Several PL teams like Everton, Arsenal and Brentford are packed out with giant CB’s and tall DM’s, drilled to win crosses all day long. Welbeck against half a dozen oafs is a mismatch.

Low blocks are beaten by creativity, precision when moments arise, great finishers.

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

I agree. “We should have more width and put it in the mixer” conjures up grainy images of Matthews and Finney setting up Lofthouse.

Several PL teams like Everton, Arsenal and Brentford are packed out with giant CB’s and tall DM’s, drilled to win crosses all day long. Welbeck against half a dozen oafs is a mismatch.

Low blocks are beaten by creativity, precision when moments arise, great finishers.

I didn’t once mention putting it into the mixer. That’s his idea of width, not mine.

 

[Krafty]

Whenever I watch us in the first half, we look so casual like we’re ahead in the game, but most of the time it’s either goalless or we’re behind. I don’t get it, why don’t we start with our second half intensity in the first half? When we are fortunate and do score a goal, that is the right time to slow down a bit.

 

[Weststander]

I didn’t once mention putting it into the mixer. That’s his idea of width, not mine.

Genuinely, I haven’t seen your post and wasn’t commenting about your opinion.

I’m talking about a 6 year obsession on nsc of to beat the low block … we need more width and put it in the mixer. Totally disagree. Tarkowski, Branthwaite, Saliba, Gabriel and the Brentford team love that. They’re coached day in day out to destroy teams trying that ancient routine. We haven’t the strikers.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

No one says you have to loop high awful crosses into the box just because you play with width. This isn’t the 1970s.

Football at its heart is a simple game. It’s about creating space when attacking and minimizing space when defending. You can do that vertically or laterally, or both. Lateral space = width.

Why on Earth would you narrow the pitch down when they have 10 narrow players in front of you, packed into a defensive formation? In fact, a large part of our problem yesterday was that we narrowed the pitch, particularly in the second half with Veltman in his pointless narrow full back role, and Georgino brought on to play so centrally that he spent the second half inside JP and Welbeck. The only width was coming from Lamptey, who incidentally was probably our best attacker on the day, because he had space to run into due to said width. The problem, of course, is that FH is tactically inept and brought on a left footed winger (Minteh) to replace Lamptey, further narrowing the pitch and game down, and making it more difficult for us to break them down, even though he didn’t want to shoot from range. We spent a good portion of the second half with right footed Veltman and Mitoma on the left, and left footed Minteh and Georgino (who wasn’t really on the right) on the right. It’s tactical nonsense.

But hey, if you disagree with that, fair enough. We all see the game differently.

Lamptey had some success in the first 10-15 minutes but Everton soon noticed this and dealt with it. Switching him to the other side didn’t do much either.

As for width, if you’re not putting a cross in you either take the ball past players or pass it….if you do this quickly then you can succeed…which brings me back to my original point of needing to be quicker and slicker with our passing to break down teams like Everton. You can do this anywhere on the pitch, not just the wide areas.

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

Lamptey had some success in the first 10-15 minutes but Everton soon noticed this and dealt with it. Switching him to the other side didn’t do much either.

As for width, if you’re not putting a cross in you either take the ball past players or pass it….if you do this quickly then you can succeed…which brings me back to my original point of needing to be quicker and slicker with our passing to break down teams like Everton. You can do this anywhere on the pitch, not just the wide areas.

I didn’t say you just did this in wide areas.

Every point you seem to have made in this conversation has been based on putting words into my mouth. It’s like you didn’t read my post at all.