[Albion] Plan B (Counter Attack)

[Herr Tubthumper]

We sit perfectly in the middle.
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Looking at this, “slow and intricate” seems the way forward.

 

[um bongo molongo]

we’ve actually gotten worse at it, which is the real problem. i remember in the potter years we’d frequently face these teams and create loads of chances, dominate from first minute to last, play with high intensity and only fail to score due to the opposition keeper having a worldy or maupay/connolly being unable to hit a cow’s arse with a banjo. now we turn up to these games and just look like we can’t be arsed. we created next to nothing yesterday.

I agree with this. But also we had Mac Allister and Gross - I don’t think we have anyone as naturally creative as those two in midfield. If o’Riley is the forward focused CM then politely he’s same way off those two at this point. And I don’t think we have anyone else who fits that profile.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Personally not convinced, Everton had a deep flat back 5 for large periods of the game, crossing balls into the box would have been easy for their 3 centre backs. As much as I dislike Tarkowski and co, they’re very good at what they do. My thinking is we need to be a lot quicker with our passing, if you are quick and slick with your passing you can play through anything as it forces the opponents to move around and creates small pockets of space. And if they don’t move around and mobilise then you just play through the existing gaps…..all very theoretical though.

The likes of Arsenal, Liverpool get games like this over the line is their quality. I’ve seen Liverpool struggle against a low block as much as us, but up steps Salah who has literally done nothing all game and he scores.

Ultimately this was the same under Potter, he finally unlocked the belief and the quality of players we had we could finish and RDZ took over that already happening and ratched it up - but crucially once certain players were sold, this also hit RDZ and his home form was poor too.

I agree with you, zippy quick football to break a low block comes with quality and belief. At the moment, we’re lacking a bit of both.

You can’t counter attack at home against a side set up like Everton because they’re not going to get sucked into it.

 

[martin tyler]

It’s easy to say let them have the ball and counter but in reality it’s not really how it works. You can’t counter a team who kick the ball into your half and set back up with a CF marking the CM.
To break low blocks you really need to move the ball quicker. Yesterday we were incredibly slow moving the ball. Most times by the time it got to Mitoma he already had 2 players on him as it took so long to get there. Didn’t help having no left full back overlapping him. If you move the ball quick and probe then the gaps in the middle will appear (like o reily v city). Yesterday to many players taking an extra touch or 2, playing passes a yard the wrong way and slowing it up. First half we were dreadful second half slightly better but not much. I’d say it was by far the worst performance of the season.

 

[Dawn Korus]

I’d play two big men up front, pump it long over their block and try and win the second ball

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

The likes of Arsenal, Liverpool get games like this over the line is their quality. I’ve seen Liverpool struggle against a low block as much as us, but up steps Salah who has literally done nothing all game and he scores.

Ultimately this was the same under Potter, he finally unlocked the belief and the quality of players we had we could finish and RDZ took over that already happening and ratched it up - but crucially once certain players were sold, this also hit RDZ and his home form was poor too.

I agree with you, zippy quick football to break a low block comes with quality and belief. At the moment, we’re lacking a bit of both.

You can’t counter attack at home against a side set up like Everton because they’re not going to get sucked into it.

Totally agree. And good point about counter attacking against certain teams, I remember the cup game against Charlton where we tried to encourage them forward with Dunk etc putting their foot on top of the ball and waiting….but they just didnt move from their positions…it was a rather strange stand off.

 

[Giraffe]

Plan B was putting Webster up front. As soon as he did that I said “watch him get offside”. Three mins later..

I actually think against Everton we should have tried that much earlier but I’d have put Dunk in there not Webster.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Totally agree. And good point about counter attacking against certain teams, I remember the cup game against Charlton where we tried to encourage them forward with Dunk etc putting their foot on top of the ball and waiting….but they just didnt move from their positions…it was a rather strange stand off.

I thought that yesterday, first half Bart could have stood with his foot on the ball all day and they weren’t going to break from their shape.

Anyone thinking a longer ball - did you see the height of their back 4/5? Even the fullbacks were 6’2”+

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I thought that yesterday, first half Bart could have stood with his foot on the ball all day and they weren’t going to break from their shape.

Anyone thinking a longer ball - did you see the height of their back 4/5? Even the fullbacks were 6’2”+

The height difference throughout the Everton team was really noticeable when they emerged from the tunnel and lined up.

 

[maltaseagull]

We don't have "incredible" pace in our front line.

We had several times yesterday where a ball over the top was chased down, mostly by Lamptey or Mitoma but too often they had to pass back or a poor cross.

 

[zefarelly]

The pitch is the same size and theres plenty of space on it . . . . We just don't move anywhere near quickly enough to use it. The main trouble is we seem to have to do a Control Alt delete every time something doesn't work, by which time the opposition have dug a 6' deep trench and built a wall Donald Trump would be proud of.

It's painfully predictable to watch. Also the reason certain players aren't working for us . . . . Dunk seems to be wedded to it and nothing else, its been like it since GP first arrived

5 years ago it was the new way to play, now everyones trying it and the likes of Forest and Bmuff are onto the next thing. It can't be just the coaching, maybe the players are scared of taking the risk?

 

[Super Sub]

We don't have "incredible" pace in our front line.

Really? Are there quicker fullbacks in the Premier League than Mitoma and Minteh?
I understand that Welbeck and Pedro will be outpaced by a few centre halves, but not many.

 

[The Fits]

This is a problem at home. Not away. Our away form is good on the whole. We fancy our chances against any team.
At home it’s the problem. We cannot play counter attacking football at home and won’t without entirely changing the clubs dna.
The moment we got a reputation for a team who can, on their day, take apart anyone, was the moment every club comes to the Amex with a sense of pragmatism at the very least, and in a lot of cases come here just to defend. It’s a compliment and it’s frustrating but it is what it is.
Until we have a Mac or Gross to put in a last minute through ball or cross, or an Alexander Arnold to do the same or smash one in from 30 yards, or a Salah who will eventually score, is the moment we start turning all these frustrating results into wins.
That’s unlikely to happen until we start paying 150k a week plus. Because that’s how much most of those players cost.
Victims of our own success and it is what it is.

 

[Weststander]

The likes of Arsenal, Liverpool get games like this over the line is their quality. I’ve seen Liverpool struggle against a low block as much as us, but up steps Salah who has literally done nothing all game and he scores.

Ultimately this was the same under Potter, he finally unlocked the belief and the quality of players we had we could finish and RDZ took over that already happening and ratched it up - but crucially once certain players were sold, this also hit RDZ and his home form was poor too.

I agree with you, zippy quick football to break a low block comes with quality and belief. At the moment, we’re lacking a bit of both.

You can’t counter attack at home against a side set up like Everton because they’re not going to get sucked into it.

I’ve sometimes wondered on what happens when an obsessive low block coach meets a near identical peer eg Conte v Dyche or Carvalhal?

 

[zefarelly]

I’ve sometimes wondered on what happens when an obsessive low block coach meets a near identical peer eg Conte v Dyche or Carvalhal?

Nobody knows.

because everyone slips into a coma. . . . By the time they all come round, the games over.

It happened to several Everton players yesterday . . . Fell to the floor unconcious at the tedium of watching Dunk pass it sideways to Veltman, back to Dunk then to Bart. . .

 

[Swimboy64]

It was the lack of use of width for us yesterday, not helped by not having overlapping full backs either side and two wingers who only seemed to want to cut inside.

Our default tactic against the low block seems to be to get the ball to the ‘D’ and try little flicks to play our way through the most congested area of the pitch. It NEVER works.

The ball was constantly wide yesterday especially 2nd half
Mitoma say a lot of it as did Minteh when he came on. The thing you said about the constant cutting inside is becoming a real bore and hard to watch as possession switches from one flank to another via the fullbacks and centre halves. The dilemma is that how to effectively play in the opposing last 3rd with 11 men behind the ball
Yesterday there were 21 players within 30yards of the Everton goal almost constantly which made it almost impossible to create chances
It’s not the first time it’s happened as you all know but Moyes had a plan and it worked perfectly
Others will do the same
Over to FH to work something out

 

[Triggaaar]

It's frustrating that we weren't able to score yesterday, but playing the way we did, we probably should have got 1. And obviously we shouldn't have given away a penalty, so a 1-0 home win would have been a fair representation of the game.

Obviously we need to get better at getting past the low block, but let's not throw the baby out.

 

[Justice]

The ball was constantly wide yesterday especially 2nd half
Mitoma say a lot of it as did Minteh when he came on. The thing you said about the constant cutting inside is becoming a real bore and hard to watch as possession switches from one flank to another via the fullbacks and centre halves. The dilemma is that how to effectively play in the opposing last 3rd with 11 men behind the ball
Yesterday there were 21 players within 30yards of the Everton goal almost constantly which made it almost impossible to create chances
It’s not the first time it’s happened as you all know but Moyes had a plan and it worked perfectly
Others will do the same
Over to FH to work something out

It’s not rocket science because other sides overcome it. Attack with pace move the ball quickly and stop trying to pass through the eye of a needle.

 

[goldstone]

We're too bloody slow most of the time and it's BORING. If we speed up our passing and our decision making it will make for a much more rewarding game. If we lose a game where there has been 100% effort from all eleven players I don't mind so much. But yesterday's bore-fest was excruciating. We absolutely have to have a Plan B when Plan A isn't working.

 

[Swimboy64]

It’s not rocket science because other sides overcome it. Attack with pace move the ball quickly and stop trying to pass through the eye of a needle.

Exactly but we seem to be lacking in that info in the places that matter