Piers Morgan Debates Gun Control with Alex Jones on CNN

[dingodan]

Slaves would not have been enslaved if they'd had guns. Jews would not have been murdered if they'd had guns.

If thats NOT your argument, then please feel free to clarify what you meant.

It's not really an argument, but yes that is what I said. This post has it straight. The last one did not.

 

[martyn20]

The point is that there is more violent crime here, because there is less potential consequences of committing violent crime here. Here a victim will almost certainly submit and wait for help, worst case you may get caught after the crime, but you are unlikely to face any violent or forceful resistance. In the U.S. if you target someone for a crime, you might get shot. That is also why there are so many more burglaries in this country, particularly when the victim is at home.

11,000 is a large number of gun deaths although the U.S. is a big country so comparing it to our 35 is not a true direct comparison. Some of those gun deaths will include suicide and some will be criminals shot by their victim or another member of the public or law enforcement.

If guns make people kill, then surely so do knives. I have an entire kitchen, but I have never hurt a soul.

America is about 6 times larger than the UK so the real figures are 11000 compared to around 210, you are right, much closer

 

[RyFish]

11,000 is a large number of gun deaths although the U.S. is a big country so comparing it to our 35 is not a true direct comparison. Some of those gun deaths will include suicide and some will be criminals shot by their victim or another member of the public or law enforcement.

If guns make people kill, then surely so do knives. I have an entire kitchen, but I have never hurt a soul.

They only have 5 times the population but over 300 times the gun deaths.

Also, you have to get close to kill someone with a knife, guns can be used at distance. Major difference.

 

[dingodan]

They only have 5 times the population but over 300 times the gun deaths.

Also, you have to get close to kill someone with a knife, guns can be used at distance. Major difference.

I have rocks in my garden?

 

[dingodan]

Not that I am trying to advocate arming the masses, those stats could be said to be misleading as the States has a higher poulation and so you would expect more deaths anyway. Would be better to see them as a percentage of population. So UK 0.00006% ish and USA 0.004% ish.

U.S. has 3.7 Gun homicides per 100,000. U.K. has 0.25 per 100,000.

List of countries by firearm-related death rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[RyFish]

I have rocks in my garden?

Do they have sights?

 

[dingodan]

Do they have sights?

No but I have a wicked throw.

 

[dingodan]

 

[Seasider78]

In a way it's amusing watching someone's deluded paranoia run away with them to the point it surfaces as mouth frothing aggression. However then you realise how influential this nut job is and how many thousands of other simpletons both follow and champion his insane ramblings.

 

[Easy 10]

I have rocks in my garden?

And from a distance, they are as deadly as a semi-automatic firearm ?

I fear the rocks are not in your garden. They're in your head.

 

[dingodan]

And from a distance, they are as deadly as a semi-automatic firearm ?

I fear the rocks are not in your garden. They're in your head.

Or perhaps my pipe?

 

[dingodan]

Homicides - that doesn't take into account suicides, accidental deaths, police kills etc I presume

Nope. Unintentional deaths by firearm is 0.2 in U.S. and 0.1 in U.K.

Suicide by firearm inflates the stats somewhat for the U.S. (6.1), I think we have to conclude that the existence of/access to the firearm was not causal in these cases, even if you believe that such things have a causal effect in homicides (which they don't).

 

[looney]

Interesting it was stated that the USA has over 11,000 gun deaths pa while the UK has 35 but that the UK has a higher rate of violent crime is that true is he saying we kill more by other means as we do not have access to guns!

THE USA figure is a couple of K lower and the UK figure is double that. It misses the point that 60% odd of murders are by firearms, meaning theres a hell of a lot of murders without. THE USA is a violent society, its citizens demand exstreme response to that threat, what is so wrong with that?

 

[Djmiles]

Couldn't help but cringe inside when watching that. Not much of a debate!

 

[Robdinho]

If guns make people kill, then surely so do knives. I have an entire kitchen, but I have never hurt a soul.

NOBODY is saying that guns MAKE people kill. You've trotted that line out several times on several threads. Why?

 

[blue2]

If guns make people kill, then surely so do knives. I have an entire kitchen, but I have never hurt a soul.[/QUOTE]


I guess it's much hared to be a mass murder with nife than it is with a semi automatic rifle

 

[Conkers]

Alex Jones is a complete DOUCHEBAG.

 

[beorhthelm]

Slaves would not have been enslaved if they'd had guns. Jews would not have been murdered if they'd had guns.

yep, and if the Russians had been armed they wouldnt have been invaded in 1941. no, wait... thats not right. you could go on throughout history finding examples for and against. the slavery one would be amusing if its it wasnt so disingenuous, ignoring the history of slavery.

The point is that there is more violent crime here, because there is less potential consequences of committing violent crime here.

which isnt true anyway.

U.S. has 3.7 Gun homicides per 100,000. U.K. has 0.25 per 100,000.

only 15x more per population? hardly worth mentioning.

 

[dingodan]

yep, and if the Russians had been armed they wouldnt have been invaded. no, wait... thats not right. you could go on throughout history finding examples for and against. the slavery one is quite disingenuous, ignoring the history of slavery.



which isnt true anyway.



only 15x more per population? hardly worth mentioning.

The two examples were slavery and mass murder. Invasion, war, is something quite different. And I was not implying that slaves were subject to gun control either, but the fact remains, go back in time and give slaves guns and see how much longer they stay slaves for.

"Which isn't true anyway" - because...?

15x more, but should we assume those homicides would not have taken place if guns had been banned? Why do you think there were 15x more firearm homicides in the U.S.? Do you think it is because of the guns?

 

[Triggaaar]

Obviously Alex Jones is an idiot, but Piers didn't argue his points well. Jones said that despite not having the right to own these guns in the UK, we have the highest violent crime rate, because it's not guns that kill people, it's people. Piers should have known the statistics and been able to refute Alex's made up statistic, because as it was, it seemed that Jones (mad though he is), had a point.