[NSC] Photoshopped / Digitally altered PCN to fraudulently obtain funds by A Borough of London

[happypig]

1981 Forgery and Counterfeiting Act Sections 1-4

The offence of forgery.
A person is guilty of forgery if he makes a false instrument, with the intention that he or another shall use it to induce somebody to accept it as genuine, and by reason of so accepting it to do or not to do some act to his own or any other person’s prejudice.
2 The offence of copying a false instrument.
It is an offence for a person to make a copy of an instrument which is, and which he knows or believes to be, a false instrument, with the intention that he or another shall use it to induce somebody to accept it as a copy of a genuine instrument, and by reason of so accepting it to do or not to do some act to his own or any other person’s prejudice.
3 The offence of using a false instrument.
It is an offence for a person to use an instrument which is, and which he knows or believes to be, false, with the intention of inducing somebody to accept it as genuine, and by reason of so accepting it to do or not to do some act to his own or any other person’s prejudice.
4 The offence of using a copy of a false instrument.
It is an offence for a person to use a copy of an instrument which is, and which he knows or believes to be, a false instrument, with the intention of inducing somebody to accept it as a copy of a genuine instrument, and by reason of so accepting it to do or not to do some act to his own or any other person’s prejudice.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1981/45/part/I

 

[beorhthelm]

definatly looks like a police matter. not trivial implications, because you wouldnt do this for a one off.

London boroughs have been turning a blind eye to fraudlent parking tickets for years, despite something ridiculous like 90% of cases taken to court thrown out. but thats civil law, pretty sure this is criminal, improper access to computer systems to obtain the number plate and the forgery itself.

 

[Triggaaar]

Why would the red go to white in a monochrome photograph ?

I'm just speculating on what may have happened. Them just making up a plate sounds unlikely. It's possible that software could be determining the plate number, and then they re-write that in an easier to read format, which has overwritten the original plate.

Seems like a weird thing to do, but then so does completely making up a number plate. If they did that, everyone would challenge their ticket, as they'd know they weren't in London that day.

 

[Fungus]

not a cloned plate its a photo shopped plate

Maybe a cloned plate AND edited/enhanced (for clarity) image?

Without wanting to know private details, you've identified vehicle differences, but is it the same model and colour? It was easy to prove when my Micra plates were photographed on a Range Rover!

 

[Triggaaar]

Action Fraud are acting to slowly this is very time criical and by the time they get to the nuts and bolts of this claim all the data held by the council in question will be deleted as part of council procedures, this point has very nearly been reached and the council in question are making every effort to delay the process and are in the process of trying to close down the PCN asap

If you started by getting them to email you all the photos, then they can't delete it, they've already sent it. They also wouldn't routinely delete photos in a short time period, as they are evidence for those who have broken traffic rules.

 

[Washie]

Maybe a cloned plate AND edited/enhanced (for clarity) image?

Without wanting to know private details, you've identified vehicle differences, but is it the same model and colour? It was easy to prove when my Micra plates were photographed on a Range Rover!

Maybe i'm mistaken, but that red would go grey in monochrome, not white.

 

[Baldseagull]

not a cloned plate its a photo shopped plate

If it was me, I would just go through the procedure of denying that it was my vehicle. The LA will either drop it or pursue it, if they pursue it, take it as far as they will go, they will produce large amounts of paper, the more "evidence" they provide, the more evidence you will have. I would also keep your details private when posting on this and other forums, delete the image showing your reg.

P.S. if they insist you cough up, nail the ********.

 

[newhaven seagull 85]

Having been on the receiving end of a London authority, I would suggest in the first instance go and speak to a solicitor, before the authority pass this onto high court bailiffs.

 

[Lady Whistledown]

I'm just speculating on what may have happened. Them just making up a plate sounds unlikely. It's possible that software could be determining the plate number, and then they re-write that in an easier to read format, which has overwritten the original plate.

Seems like a weird thing to do, but then so does completely making up a number plate. If they did that, everyone would challenge their ticket, as they'd know they weren't in London that day.

I'm wondering if it's a software thing too. Does look a bit weird, but could just be them enhancing the important part of the image.

 

[Gwylan]

A journalist at a national news paper totaly gets it, and would love an exclusive but admits that the story is just to big to print at this stage

I'm sorry, I don't believe that for one minute: it may that there aren't enough details. I'd want to know if there were similar cases in that borough. It's a lot of trouble to go to if it's just a one-off.

The big question in any case of financial shenanigans is cui bono? It's not clear from your description who does: is the money to go to a genuine council account? Or is to go to what seems like a genuine council account but isn't? Or does it go A/c A Fraudster No 12345678 at the National Bank of Chancers?

And don't rule out the possibility of a mistake. As Trig says, it could be a software glitch or the timestamp is wrong and it is your car but on a different day that they suggested.

 

[happypig]

I'm just speculating on what may have happened. Them just making up a plate sounds unlikely. It's possible that software could be determining the plate number, and then they re-write that in an easier to read format, which has overwritten the original plate.

They aren't allowed to do that. What they can do is present it to a court and say "We believe this image shows the registration number xxx123" and let the court decide whether they agree. If they present, as evidence, what appears to be an altered photo the defence will have it thrown out.

 

[clapham_gull]

I'm wondering if it's a software thing too. Does look a bit weird, but could just be them enhancing the important part of the image.

If the car wasn't there at all (if the op has proof), wouldn't it be deemed a bit odd that:

1) The software enhanced the image to the same registration number. Technically possible (if based on probability) but hugely unlikely it would resolve to an existing valid number plate.

2) The number plate resolved to the same on a similar model.

However, my dad sold cars and years ago one he had on the forecourt that was "involved" in a robbery. Except it couldn't have been since it was packed in behind a number of cars and hadn't moved for weeks.

They had simply bought the same model and copied the registration plate (and from memory) the tax disk too.

 

[beorhthelm]

I'm wondering if it's a software thing too. Does look a bit weird, but could just be them enhancing the important part of the image.

reckon overlying the "enhanced" image would/could be doctoring. if you wanted to do this, sensible design would be to put the enhancment off to the side.

that said, it does open up the possiblity "they" arent so thoughtful about such image placment, and there is been a cock up with a mis-identified plate.

 

[Husty]

That top image looks TOO fake to me, as if it has been enhanced or enlarged deliberately for clarity rather than because someone is trying to pull the wool over your eyes. If that still image is taken from the video how can the video be of such a poor quality and yet the still be such good quality?

 

[Da Man Clay]

Problem is Action fraud is set up by the government to record fraud not investigate it. They decide of they will send it to the local force who then decide if they will investigate it. It is actually a way for the Government to massage crime figures. normally every individual victim is allocated a crime number, with fraud the number issues if for the offender and not the victim. Therefore if a person commits 60 frauds it one crime.. but is they commit 60 offences of criminal damage against 60 different people its 60 crimes.

Totally, and utterly, incorrect from a recording perspective. Recording is victim based (and actually more than that - it’s account based for standard credit card crime). 60 victims = 60 crimes. Fraud is actually recorded better than anything else really from a numbering perspective.

Spot on in that they don’t investigate though. Makes more sense really as Fraud is more national and the ability to link offenders is made more straight forward with a national recording and intelligence bureau. Investigating everything from London would be mad.

 

[lost in london]

I don't know why some people are being so circumspect and conspiratorial about all this. it's OBVIOUSLY an enhanced / photoshopped representation of the number plate put onto the car, no conspiracy there, probably just the ANPR technology being able to recognise number plates better from the grainy footage (using infra-red perhaps) than stills can, so they enhance it. Then it's just a simple case of your number plate being cloned.

I see you're all over moneysavingexpert on this as well so I'm not sure how well your suggestion about keeping it close to your chest is working out, you sound like a conspiracy theorist nutcase.

 

[PeterOut]

There is a clear (to me) inference in your original post that you believe a Local Authority has gone to the trouble of 'faking' a photo, passing it off as your car, presumably (my inference) in order to generate income falsely.

Really?

Your response is to post the alleged facts on a football forum? (Yes, I am very aware that NSC covers a hell of a lot more than just football - but I could think of dozens of different sites to post this kind of issue to, even if I started from the view that the best way to resolve it is to post it on a public forum of any kind).

Perhaps it is just me, but this makes less sense to me than some of BG's classic posts (sorry BG!).

Edit: - Just seen the post above about this being all over moneysavingexpert

 

[clapham_gull]

No doubt the reg is overlayed rather than "enhanced", just zoom in

Although the picture is taken from above and the car is at angle - the letters are completely straight in both plains.

To put it this way the only way it would look like that would be if the letters were skewed on the plate and you experiencing an optical illusion.

Exactly how the sponsorship works when printed on a sports pitch.

 

[virtual22]

Action Fraud are acting to slowly this is very time criical and by the time they get to the nuts and bolts of this claim all the data held by the council in question will be deleted as part of council procedures, this point has very nearly been reached and the council in question are making every effort to delay the process and are in the process of trying to close down the PCN asap

Why not put in a GDPR SAR's request? My understanding is that once this is done it is a criminal offence to delete any data. They also have to turn your request around pretty quickly as well but you'd need to look up the exact timescale.

 

[darkwolf666]

Posting this for my son, any advice opinions or suggestions from the wise and informed of NSC greatly apprieciated ( this is not a cloned plate)

Image 1 the photoshopped plate note the plate behind has been edited out.. No blue gb logo and obvuios poor attempt at placing my reg over the top View attachment 98337

Image 2 a still from the video showing unreadable text but blue gb logo.View attachment 98338



I will try to be reserved with what I’m about to say, as I know the gravity of my claim.

I have received a PCN form a Borough of London exactly which one I will not divulge just yet.

The image of the car “looks” like my car and “looks” like my registration. On the date and time of the contravention I can prove by way of CCTV and police ANPR data that the car in the photo was not mine or pinged in the London area on that date. Disputing this is not the issue, I have this covered.

The Photo has several differences to my own car which I can and have proven to the council.

I myself am a keen hobbyist in photography and photoshop.

The incriminating image that contains my registration characters I believe has been digitally placed over the car in the PCN and can further support my claims.

Video footage of the car exists and has been supplied to me along with the original PCN. This is where it gets exciting and potentially criminal if I’m correct.

The incriminating image containing my registration cannot be clearly read or distinguished on the video footage. It is however clear as day on the still taken from the video footage.

The two Do not match. the video footage clearly shows the Blue GB logo to the left of the number plate. The stills image taken from the video has been digitally removed and over the top of the image has had ‘My’ registration characters put in its place.

This is the only incriminating image to which I believe has been fabricated in order to obtain a fine and the only way in which the fine found its way to me..

Please can someone on this forum inform me if I’m allowed to share more with this sight, I do not mind my registration being shown, it is my data and contains no other people’s data.

I have so much more to say and reveal about this story but the severity of it means that its sensitive and need to be thoughtful in my approach.

I have obtained Met police crime number, Action fraud Crime number and obtained communications/ response from London PCN ombudsman.

I’m have no issue challenging this PCN but what I am in need of is someone to listen. And a voice to help expose this in the correct manor.

Thank you for reading, please ask any questions and I will try to answer.

Not casting any doubt on your story, but how did you get police ANPR for your vehicle? I worked for The Met for a number of years and this is not the sort of information that was easily obtained or shared!