[News] Pedestrian jailed for manslaughter

[PILTDOWN MAN]

Bear in mind that the pedestrian may be stone deaf and unable to hear either the cough, the words, or the bell. My mother has been more than just startled on occasion by a cyclist zipping past within touching distance because he or she assumes that ringing the bell gives them the right to speed on.

Not aimed at you. I have no reason to doubt that you are considerate at all times. Just a general warning for cyclists, especially when passing old people who are more likely not to hear them.

Yes a good few years ago I was walking back from town in some distance in front, was my elderly neighbour. She was deaf and also physically impaired. A cyclist went past me at a rate of knots and then past my neighbour who was pulling her shopping trolley. Startled she let go of her trolley stumbled and fell. Fortunately there was a park bench nearby and I managed to get her up and sat down. Her shopping was strewn all over the pavement. Cyclist nowhere to be seen.

I got her home, called the doctor out to her and went back to the shops to replace the broken items (eggs etc). She recovered physically over the next few day, mentally though the damage was done, she never left the house again! A fiercely independent person had her confidence wiped away.

The women charged and found guilty in this case was culpable and sentence rightly given imo. However these "shared" places are often places that were designed for people walking not riding a bike. Bikes to pedestrians are the same as Cars to Bikes.

 

[Deleted member 37369]

Yes a good few years ago I was walking back from town in some distance in front, was my elderly neighbour. She was deaf and also physically impaired. A cyclist went past me at a rate of knots and then past my neighbour who was pulling her shopping trolley. Startled she let go of her trolley stumbled and fell. Fortunately there was a park bench nearby and I managed to get up and sat down. Her shopping was strewn all over the pavement. Cyclist nowhere to be seen.

I got her home, called the doctor out to her and went back to the shops to replace the broken items (eggs etc). She recovered physically over the next few day, mentally though the damage was done, she never left the house again! A fiercely independent person had her confidence wiped away.

The women charged and found guilty in this case was culpable and sentence rightly given imo. However these "shared" places are often places that were designed for people walking not riding a bike. Bikes to pedestrians are the same as Cars to Bikes.

That's truly shocking!

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

That's truly shocking!

It was one of those incidents I kept replaying in my mind for a long time. It was truly upsetting. A simple thing was her shopping. She was always so particular that she would have packed that shopping in a meaningful way into her trolley so much so it would be in perfect order. To see it thrown all over the ground was somewhat symbolic.

Interesting little fact about Maude, she was the first female driving examiner in the UK.

 

[Deleted member 37369]

It was one of those incidents I kept replaying in my mind for a long time. It was truly upsetting. A simple thing was her shopping. She was always so particular that she would have packed that shopping in a meaningful way into her trolley so much so it would be in perfect order. To see it thrown all over the ground was somewhat symbolic.

Interesting little fact about Maude, she was the first female driving examiner in the UK.

Oh wow ... that is a claim to fame

I wouldn't be surprised if that lowlife causes upset like that every day sadly!

 

[Stat Brother]

Oh and just a quick reminder, statistically speaking, since this thread started someone else has been killed on the UK roads and by the time tomorrow rolls around so will another.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Yes a good few years ago I was walking back from town in some distance in front, was my elderly neighbour. She was deaf and also physically impaired. A cyclist went past me at a rate of knots and then past my neighbour who was pulling her shopping trolley. Startled she let go of her trolley stumbled and fell. Fortunately there was a park bench nearby and I managed to get her up and sat down. Her shopping was strewn all over the pavement. Cyclist nowhere to be seen.

I got her home, called the doctor out to her and went back to the shops to replace the broken items (eggs etc). She recovered physically over the next few day, mentally though the damage was done, she never left the house again! A fiercely independent person had her confidence wiped away.

The women charged and found guilty in this case was culpable and sentence rightly given imo. However these "shared" places are often places that were designed for people walking not riding a bike. Bikes to pedestrians are the same as Cars to Bikes.

I agree with assuming people can hear the bell. My other half is hard of hearing and wears hearing aids in both ears. A cyclist tore past him on the swing bridge (where there is a clear sign saying Cyclists dismount) with the cyclist shouting back at him 'Are you deaf'?
He shouted back, taking out his hearing aids in both hands, YES.

 

[Triggaaar]

You clearly don’t understand how law works do you?

Actually, I do.

I disagree with you.

 

[Triggaaar]

Down to interpretation. She is clearly gesturing at Celia Ward and continues to do so just as the cyclist comes into shot. This wasn't some young tearaway cycling at break neck speed on the path. Auriol Grey could easily have stepped further to her right but she held her ground and continued to gesture. It's that combination which I think most people will see as 'forcing' the cyclist to try and take evasive action which saw the bike go off the kerb with tragic consequences.

If she was gesturing before the cyclist was in shot, then the cyclist had quite a lot of time to slow down and stop. I'd be amazed if the pedestrian thought 'this might lead to her death'.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Actually, I do.

I disagree with you.

Care to explain how her leaving the scene, and going shopping afterwards, tipped the balance and found her guilty of manslaughter…which is what you suggested. Or did I misunderstand?

 

[Triggaaar]

Care to explain how her leaving the scene, and going shopping afterwards, tipped the balance and found her guilty of manslaughter…which is what you suggested. Or did I misunderstand?

The main two points I was making about what happened after the end of the video are 1) that the following accident may have been quite awful (ie, not only someone dying in an accident, but it being quite graphic) and 2) the defendant may then appear to not give a shit, and walk off, when a decent person would be horrified and not leave the seen.

Now I don't know if either of those guesses are correct, but we have heard (quoted in this thread) that an official has said that if the public were to see all of the footage, they would not be questioning the verdict (or questioning it less). What do we think that means? I'm thinking it means something like my 2 points.

 

[Notters]

This is the path in question, for what its worth.

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[StonehamPark]

I'd be amazed if the pedestrian thought 'this might lead to her death'.

And that’s why it’s manslaughter, and not murder.

 

[The Antikythera Mechanism]

It’s a mindset that a lot of people have, they think they’re in the right so sod those who they think are in the wrong. It’s a bit like when driving past a row of parked cars, with no one coming in the opposite direction, the someone does come from the other direction but won’t wait because they have right of way and you end up bumper to bumper with them waving their arms about.

 

[Deleted member 37369]

This is the path in question, for what its worth.

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There's a shared space sign on a lamppost other side of the road. Just the one ... which is really poor signage from local authority. The pavement by the sign is also in a quite shocking state in places ... there's a surprise!

There are no white lines or any other markings as far as I can see on my quick look.

You would expect it to be the same on the other side. This is probably why there's some confusion ... which the council must look at.

But ... looking at that road, I don't think I would want to cycle on it if I was a 77 year old!

 

[Notters]

There's a shared space sign on a lamppost other side of the road. Just the one ... which is really poor signage from local authority. The pavement by the sign is also in a quite shocking state in places ... there's a surprise!

View attachment 157953

There are no white lines or any other markings as far as I can see on my quick look.

You would expect it to be the same on the other side. This is probably why there's some confusion ... which the council must look at.

But ... looking at that road, I don't think I would want to cycle on it if I was a 77 year old!

Good spot!

 

[Triggaaar]

And that’s why it’s manslaughter, and not murder.

No, murder would be if they intended to kill the cyclist.

I don't think they expected any harm to come to the cyclist.

 

[Triggaaar]

There's a shared space sign on a lamppost other side of the road.

So the prosecution/council couldn't find evidence of it being a shared road, but you've managed to with a bit of googling

 

[StonehamPark]

No, murder would be if they intended to kill the cyclist.

I don't think they expected any harm to come to the cyclist.

I agree.
But unfortunately, harm did come to the cyclist, hence the verdict of manslaughter.

 

[Worried Man Blues]

This is the path in question, for what its worth.

Google Maps

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That looks a lot wider than I thought, shouldn't have been a problem really. That is as one who regularly shares pavements with peds and cyclists depending on my mode of transport!

 

[Deleted member 37369]

So the prosecution/council couldn't find evidence of it being a shared road, but you've managed to with a bit of googling

The sign in the screen shot is on the opposite side of the road to where the incident occurred. Whether or not there should be signs on side of the incident - who knows??