[News] Pedestrian jailed for manslaughter

[StonehamPark]

There's a shared space sign on a lamppost other side of the road. Just the one ... which is really poor signage from local authority. The pavement by the sign is also in a quite shocking state in places ... there's a surprise!

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There are no white lines or any other markings as far as I can see on my quick look.

You would expect it to be the same on the other side. This is probably why there's some confusion ... which the council must look at.

But ... looking at that road, I don't think I would want to cycle on it if I was a 77 year old!

So the prosecution/council couldn't find evidence of it being a shared road, but you've managed to with a bit of googling

The google maps image above was captured >2 years post-incident.
The sign may (or may not) have been put up afterwards.

There are further shared path signs along the road, and only on that one side of the road, most likely due to the pavement being wider than on the other side. Very standard practice.

 

[Notters]

The google maps image above was captured >2 years post-incident.
The sign may (or may not) have been put up afterwards.

There are further shared path signs along the road, and only on that one side of the road, most likely due to the pavement being wider than on the other side. Very standard practice.

You can see it was there for pretty much every year for the last 15 years by clicking on "see more dates".

 

[Triggaaar]

I agree.
But unfortunately, harm did come to the cyclist, hence the verdict of manslaughter.

I thought that for it to be manslaughter there either needed to be some intent or force or negligence where it was obvious the actions could cause serious harm (or something like that). So many people wave their displeasure at cyclists without them falling over, let alone dying.

 

[Deleted member 37369]

You can see it was there for pretty much every year for the last 15 years by clicking on "see more dates".

Yep

This one from August 2009 when the pavement was in a much better condition than it is now. And the pavements look similar in size both sides ... they change width along the route.

 

[Weststander]

I thought that for it to be manslaughter there either needed to be some intent or force or negligence where it was obvious the actions could cause serious harm (or something like that). So many people wave their displeasure at cyclists without them falling over, let alone dying.

Manslaughter can be committed in one of three ways:

1. Killing with the intent for murder but where a partial defence applies, namely loss of control, diminished responsibility or killing pursuant to a suicide pact.
2. Conduct that was grossly negligent given the risk of death, and did kill ("gross negligence manslaughter"); and
3. Conduct taking the form of an unlawful act involving a danger of some harm that resulted in death ("unlawful and dangerous act manslaughter").

The term "involuntary manslaughter" is commonly used to describe manslaughter falling within (2) and (3) while (1) is referred to as "voluntary manslaughter".

 

[pb21]

I thought that for it to be manslaughter there either needed to be some intent or force or negligence where it was obvious the actions could cause serious harm (or something like that). So many people wave their displeasure at cyclists without them falling over, let alone dying.

If you force someone into falling into a road, with lots of traffic, I think it's fairly reasonable that you can expect harm to result.

 

[StonehamPark]

You can see it was there for pretty much every year for the last 15 years by clicking on "see more dates".

Yep

This one from August 2009 when the pavement was in a much better condition than it is now. And the pavements look similar in size both sides ... they change width along the route.

That's all well and good, and the sign could have been there for all eternity - though in this case, it has no relevance due to the incident occuring on the other side of the road.

From brief reading of an article the other day, there seemed to be confusion or no firm knowledge if it was also a shared pathway on the incident side - though it appears to not be a shared pathway.

Shared pathway or not, has/had little-no bearing on the verdict given.
Though we are free to say "she should have been riding on the other side of the road", for all good that will do.

 

[Triggaaar]

If you force someone into falling into a road, with lots of traffic, I think it's fairly reasonable that you can expect harm to result.

Sure, but they did not force them into falling into the road. The cyclist could have stopped, or gone to the other side of the pedestrian.

 

[pb21]

Sure, but they did not force them into falling into the road. The cyclist could have stopped, or gone to the other side of the pedestrian.

I've seen the video. IMO they clearly did force them into the road, and, presumably the Judge or Jury agreed, hence the sentence.

The pedestrian moves as the cyclist approaches. I guess the cyclist could have initially moved to left, but they didn't, I'm sure everyone wishes that she had. That shouldn't be a reason to allow someone to force someone into the road though, it's a bit victim blame really.

 

[Weststander]

Sure, but they did not force them into falling into the road. The cyclist could have stopped, or gone to the other side of the pedestrian.

A bike cannot stop dead in a split second, especially when rode by an elderly person.

Aggressively yelling to get off the fkn pavement and making a move towards the cyclist was the cause of cyclist losing control and then dying.

Hence why a criminal court found the perpetrator guilty of manslaughter and the sentence.

 

[StonehamPark]

Aggressively yelling to get off the fkn pavement and making a move towards the cyclist was the cause of cyclist losing control and then dying.

Hence why a criminal court found the perpetrator guilty of manslaughter and the sentence.

100%.

 

[Triggaaar]

A bike cannot stop dead in a split second, especially when rode by an elderly person.

It's not a split second though is it, it's a couple of seconds.

Aggressively yelling to get off the fkn pavement and making a move towards the cyclist

Did she make a move towards the cyclist? I couldn't see that. She could have even pushed the cyclist, I couldn't see that from the video.

 

[Weststander]

It's not a split second though is it, it's a couple of seconds.



Did she make a move towards the cyclist? I couldn't see that. She could have even pushed the cyclist, I couldn't see that from the video.

From the moment the arm’s thrown out for a second time, we make it less than a second. Giving the innocent victim no time and centimetres to save her life.

The lesson here is that micro aggressions in a wound-up UK, can have serious consequences. There are vast numbers of people who once they leave home think they own the pavement, road, amber through a shopping mall and daren’t anyone cross their path etc. We’ve all seen it.

 

[Eric the meek]

We've seen the video.

We've read her account of events, before she was aware that the incident was captured on CCTV.
'She described the pedal cycle as travelling "fast" in the centre of the pavement'.

Utter bollocks. She knew she had done wrong and was trying to get out of the consequences.
She caused the death of the cyclist, and was quite rightly convicted of manslaughter by the jury, who had all the evidence in front of them.

Nothing else matters.

 

[rogersix]

No, murder would be if they intended to kill the cyclist.

I don't think they expected any harm to come to the cyclist.

what did she expect to happen to the cyclist after pushing them into a busy road?

your arguement is disintergrating trig, not like you

 

[rogersix]

We've seen the video.

We've read her account of events, before she was aware that the incident was captured on CCTV.
'She described the pedal cycle as travelling "fast" in the centre of the pavement'.

Utter bollocks. She knew she had done wrong and was trying to get out of the consequences.
She caused the death of the cyclist, and was quite rightly convicted of manslaughter by the jury, who had all the evidence in front of them.

Nothing else matters.

the cover up gives us the truth of the incident

 

[Triggaaar]

what did she expect to happen to the cyclist after pushing them into a busy road?

Does the footage show that she pushed the cyclist into the road? Or is that what was determined in court?

If so then I agree with you, but I didn't see that's what happened.

 

[Eric the meek]

the cover up gives us the truth of the incident

Also from the police interview:

'She said she "may have unintentionally put" out her hand to protect herself. Ms Grey believed she had made light contact with Mrs Ward.'

 

[pb21]

Does the footage show that she pushed the cyclist into the road? Or is that what was determined in court?

If so then I agree with you, but I didn't see that's what happened.

Quite clearly, around the 9/10 second mark, the video shows the pedestrian turn towards the woman, moving her her arm at high level, with her lower body indicating that movement, at exactly the same time the cyclist loses control and veers into the road.

 

[Triggaaar]

Quite clearly, around the 9/10 second mark, the video shows the pedestrian turn towards the woman, moving her her arm at high level, with her lower body indicating that movement, at exactly the same time the cyclist loses control and veers into the road.

Yeah it looks like she probably does. I didn't notice that when I first watched it, I thought she was just gesturing and the cyclist crashed.