Peace Ship Attacked

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SULLY COULDNT SHOOT

Loyal2Family+Albion!
Sep 28, 2004
11,344
Izmir, Southern Turkey


May 22, 2008
570
Well BB has pretty much killed this thread.

So Ill add mouth to miouth with Henning Menkell's view...

What I find interesting is what would happen if there was a really LARGE convoy next year... what would happen then?

Henning Mankell on Gaza flotilla attack: 'I think they went out to murder' | World news | The Guardian

BB should be banned from here after his attacks on me !
and what has my brother done to him?
He said i hide on here ???? I was at lords last night with cool people from NSC.
bb get your facts right.
I'm done with this thread sully dave from cz and bushy enjoyed our sparring!
 


Pilar Rahola is a Spanish politician, journalist and activist and member of the far left. Her articles are published in Spain and throughout some of the most important newspapers in Latin America .


"Why don't we see demonstrations against Islamic dictatorships in London , Paris , Barcelona ?

Or demonstrations against the Burmese dictatorship?

Why aren't there demonstrations against the enslavement of millions of women who live without any legal protection?

Why aren't there demonstrations against the use of children as human bombs?

Why has there been no leadership in support of the victims of Islamic dictatorship in Sudan ?

Why is there never any outrage against the acts of terrorism committed against Israel ?

Why is there no outcry by the European left against Islamic fanaticism?


Why don't they defend Israel 's right to exist?

Why confuse support of the Palestinian cause with the defense of Palestinian terrorism?

And finally, the million dollar question: Why is the left in Europe and around the world obsessed with the two most solid democracies, the United States and Israel, and not with the worst dictatorships on the planet? The two most solid democracies, who have suffered the bloodiest attacks of terrorism, and the left doesn't care.

And then, to the concept of freedom. In every pro Palestinian European forum, I hear the left yelling with fervor: "We want freedom for the people!"

Not true. They are never concerned with freedom for the people of Syria , or Yemen , or Iran , or Sudan , or other such nations. And they are never preoccupied when Hammas destroys freedom for the Palestinians. They are only concerned with using the concept of Palestinian freedom as a weapon against Israeli freedom. The resulting consequence of these ideological pathologies is the manipulation of the press.

The international press does major damage when reporting on the question of the Israeli-Palestinian issue. On this topic they don't inform, they propagandize.

When reporting about Israel , the majority of journalists forget the reporter code of ethics. And so, any Israeli act of self-defense becomes a massacre, and any confrontation, genocide. So many stupid things have been written about Israel , that there aren't any accusations left to level against her.

At the same time, this press never discusses Syrian and Iranian interference in propagating violence against Israel ; the indoctrination of children and the corruption of the Palestinians. And when reporting about victims, every Palestinian casualty is reported as tragedy and every Israeli victim is camouflaged, hidden or reported about with disdain.

And let me add on the topic of the Spanish left. Many are the examples that illustrate the anti-Americanism and anti-Israeli sentiments that define the Spanish left. For example, one of the leftist parties in Spain has just expelled one of its members for creating a pro-Israel website. I quote from the expulsion document: "Our friends are the people of Iran , Libya and Venezuela , oppressed by imperialism, and not a Nazi state like Israel ."

In another example, the socialist mayor of Campozuelos changed Shoah Day, commemorating the victims of the Holocaust, with Palestinian Nabka Day, which mourns the establishment of the State of Israel, thus showing contempt for the six million European Jews murdered in the Holocaust.

Or in my native city of Barcelona , the city council decided to commemorate the 60th anniversary of the creation of the State of Israel, by having a week of solidarity with the Palestinian people. Thus, they invited Leila Khaled, a noted terrorist from the 70's and current leader of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, a terrorist organization so described by the European Union, which promotes the use of bombs against Israel .

This politically correct way of thinking has even polluted the speeches of president Zapatero. His foreign policy falls within the lunatic left, and on issues of the Middle East , he is unequivocally pro Arab. I can assure you that in private, Zapatero places on Israel the blame for the conflict in the Middle East , and the policies of foreign minister Moratinos reflect this. The fact that Zapatero chose to wear a kafiah in the midst of the Lebanon conflict is no coincidence; it is a symbol.

Spain has suffered the worst terrorist attack in Europe and it is in the crosshairs of every Islamic terrorist organization. As I wrote before, they kill us with cell phones hooked to satellites connected to the Middle Ages.
And yet the Spanish left is the most anti Israeli in the world.

And then it says it is anti Israeli because of solidarity. This is the madness I want to denounce in this conference.

Conclusion:

I am not Jewish. Ideologically I am left and by profession a journalist. Why am I not anti- Israeli like my colleagues? Because as a non-Jew I have the historical responsibility to fight against Jewish hatred and currently against the hatred for their historic homeland, Israel . To fight against anti-Semitism is not the duty of the Jews, it is the duty of the non-Jews.

As a journalist it is my duty to search for the truth beyond prejudice, lies and manipulations. The truth about Israel is not told. As a person from the left who loves progress, I am obligated to defend liberty, culture, civic education for children, coexistence and the laws that the Tablets of the Covenant made into universal principles.

Principles that Islamic fundamentalism systematically destroys. That is to say that as a non-Jew, journalist and lefty, I have a triple moral duty with Israel , because if Israel is destroyed, liberty, modernity and culture will be destroyed too.
 






Dandyman

In London village.
Unbelievable hypocrisy!

Many Jews, yourself clearly included, don't want to assimilate as your religion/ race will disappear - yet if white people refused to integrate with other races you would call them racists or nazis!!

As for Hamas right to be 'there' they clearly have more than you or your f***ing brother!!

Another post in which your "anti-zionism" seems little more than abject anti-semitism. Jews are probably one of the most assimilated minority groups in Europe, just as they were in pre-war Germany.

It's perfectly possible to have an awareness of a particular history, culture and religous tradition and be a fully functioning member of society or is the Chairman of our club not welcomed by you ?
 


Common as Mook

Not Posh as Fook
Jul 26, 2004
5,642
Steve Foster: it's an objection to the Israeli government, not the Jewish race. Your anti Islamic post has again shown your true colours. The real Steve Foster would be f***ing livid to know that your using his name to pedal that shite.
 


coventrygull

the right one
Jun 3, 2004
6,752
Bridlington Yorkshire














brighton bluenose

Well-known member
Jan 6, 2006
1,396
Nicollet & 66th
Another post in which your "anti-zionism" seems little more than abject anti-semitism. Jews are probably one of the most assimilated minority groups in Europe, just as they were in pre-war Germany.

It's perfectly possible to have an awareness of a particular history, culture and religous tradition and be a fully functioning member of society or is the Chairman of our club not welcomed by you ?

I was going to PM you about this but as you are publicly accusing me of anti-semitism I ask you now to point out a post where I have been anti-semetic rather than anti-zionist?!

And whether you like it or not there are MANY Jews like our mate Daz who do not want to assimilate - or are you gonna deny it and lie about that as well??!!

The ball's in your court!
 


Alfred the greatx

Cake anyone, bit overdone
Jun 15, 2008
143
Don't bother Bluenose. They always try to spin the questions.
If they can make you look anti-semitic they can brand you a Nazi and they don't discuss things with Nazis, conveniently!
They manage to dodge the tricky questions about how much misery they have wrought on the Palestinians by stealing the land that belonged to them for centuries based on a myth.
And for a race that suffered the horrors of the Warsaw gheto, wouldn't you think they would have more empathy with the people of the Gaza ghetto?
 








Greeno

New member
Oct 16, 2009
123
Don't bother Bluenose. They always try to spin the questions.
If they can make you look anti-semitic they can brand you a Nazi and they don't discuss things with Nazis, conveniently!
They manage to dodge the tricky questions about how much misery they have wrought on the Palestinians by stealing the land that belonged to them for centuries based on a myth.
And for a race that suffered the horrors of the Warsaw gheto, wouldn't you think they would have more empathy with the people of the Gaza ghetto?

Your use of the word 'they' is slightly confusing.


'misery THEY have wrought on the Palestinians'- You are clearly referring to Jewish people. I am Jewish. I have no say in the government of Israel. Indeed, there are many policies I disagree with (read my earlier posts). Your use of the word 'they' implies that it is the 'jews' that are treating the Palestinians in a bad way and to place Jews as a people in the same bracket is anti-semitic when there are Jews such as myself who do not blindly follow the Israeli government and who disagree with the Israeli government at times. Applying this rationale, therefore, would be like saying 'all Muslims are terrorists' which is a racist/Islamophobic statement to make.

If you wish to avoid confusing anti-zionism with anti-semitism, I strongly suggest you pick your words more wisely in future.
 


Juan Albion

Chicken Sniffer 3rd Class
They manage to dodge the tricky questions about how much misery they have wrought on the Palestinians by stealing the land that belonged to them for centuries based on a myth.

Why would they bother answering a question that is asked by someone who shows a total lack of respect? I wouldn't bother answering a question phrased like that either.
 




Greeno

New member
Oct 16, 2009
123
Unbelievable hypocrisy!

Many Jews, yourself clearly included, don't want to assimilate as your religion/ race will disappear - yet if white people refused to integrate with other races you would call them racists or nazis!!

As for Hamas right to be 'there' they clearly have more than you or your f***ing brother!!


Elections, as far as I am aware, were due to be called in Gaza in January 2010 yet we are still waiting for them, so technically Hamas do in fact have no right to be in the position they are in today. So much for democracy.

'Many Jews' is a gross generalisation and seriously stereotypical allegation to make and I must question on what ground you can make such an outlandish preposterous assumption. You may not be aware but there are approximately 275,000 Jews in the UK and many more who do not consider themselves as Jewish but are Jewish according to Jewish or do not know they are Jewish (my flatmate found out he was Jewish because he did not know that it ran through the mother's bloodline), many of whom work in business, law, hospitals and many other professions. I would hardly say Alan Sugar has refused to assimilate, nor would it be fair to say that Sir Phillip Green has refused to assimilate and nor would it be fair to say Tony Bloom and his family who have been shareholders in the Albion for years have refused to assimilate.

I went to a Jewish school (it accepts non-Jews before you ask yet there are plenty of other very good schools where I live so there's no reason why my school would be picked over them in the first place) which contained over 1000 Jews and can confidently say that at least 90% were fully assimilated in society and only 8% (the school did a survey a few years ago) actually wore a kippah outside of school. Furthermore, in Israel only 30% of Jews consider themselves as orthodox but even that does not mean that they have failed to assimilate but that they follow the torah and probably keep Shabbat more.

Of course there are those who don't wish to assimilate and would rather live in places like Stamford Hill with their backs turned to the outside world, but there are plenty more, the majority in fact, who do assimilate and work alongside others. So on what basis do you make this claim? Is it on the ground that there are areas like Stamford Hill where there is a high concentration of ultra-orthodox Jews and you were unaware of the full number of Jews These Jews are the fringe of the fringe and represent 10% of the Jewish community who are members of synagogues (75%).

Therefore, your statement is pathetically flawed and you have merely exposed your ignorance and naivity to embrace such a stereotype.
 


Four Qassam rockets fired from Hamas-controlled Gaza hit southern Israel Thursday (June 3) just as organizers of an aid ship, the Irish-owned MV Rachel Corrie, say they expect to arrive in Gaza early Saturday (June 5) in defiance of an Israeli blockade on the territory.

The new ship set sail days after a pre-meditated attack on Israeli soldiers May 31 attempting to intercept a flotilla filled with aid cargo bound for Gaza from Turkey .

Iran-backed Hamas has refused to allow Israel to deliver into Gaza the humanitarian aid from the ships.

Terrorists in Gaza have fired thousands of rockets at civilians in Israel since Israel gave up all of Gaza in 2005 and handed the area over to the Palestinians in hopes of paving the way for peace.

Like the ships in the flotilla, the MV Rachel Corrie is sponsored by the Free Gaza Movement, and the Israeli government has offered to escort the vessel to the southern Israeli port city of Ashdod and deliver the aid to Gaza once it’s inspected – just as with the flotilla. However, those on board have refused, saying they were concerned some of the banned contents they’re bringing won’t be delivered to Gaza . Among those items is concrete, which Hamas in the past has used to build bunkers.
Although Israel dispatched eight truckloads of aid from the flotilla to the Kerem Shalom crossing into Gaza on June 1 after the cargo was examined in Ashdod , Hamas refused to accept the aid. Said a Hamas official, "We refuse to receive the humanitarian aid until all those who were detained aboard the ships are released."
The Irish branch of the Free Gaza Movement owns the MV Rachel Corrie, a cargo ship that was originally part of the flotilla but was held up for logistical reasons and so was not seized in the May 31 raid. Fifteen activists, including Irish and Malaysian nationals, are aboard the ship.
Two members of the Free Gaza Movement are a husband-and-wife team who helped coordinate the flotilla that was intercepted May 31, which included the Mavi Marmara, a ship filled with hundreds of Turks backed by the Insani Yardim Vakfi - “humanitarian relief fund”, or IHH, an Islamist Turkish group with global jihadi ties. Huwaida Arraf – who was aboard the illegal flotilla – and her husband Adam Shapiro are members of the Free Gaza Movement and also co-founded the International Solidarity Movement (ISM). The ISM has aligned itself with extremists and has publicly acknowledged collaboration with terrorist groups.
The MV Rachel Corrie is named for a fellow ISM member who died in Gaza in 2003. Corrie had positioned herself in the path of an Israeli bulldozer . The driver of the bulldozer, however, said he didn’t see her. The May 31 flotilla incident occurred when Israeli Navy personnel were attacked by the self-described human rights activists on board the Mavi Marmara with knives, clubs and other weapons. About 400 of the 700 people participating in the six-vessel flotilla were Turks. Eight Turks and one American of Turkish origin, whose ties to the IHH and other groups is unknown, were killed on board the Mavi Marmara after attacking Israel military personnel.
Of those who died, three said they set out on the voyage intending to become martyrs, or shahids – including three Turkish nationals – Ali Khaider Benginin, Ali Akhbar Iritilmis and Ibrahim Bilgen. Benginin told his family just before joining the flotilla: "I am going to be a shahid; I dreamt I will become a shahid – I saw in a dream that I will be killed." And Iritilmis reportedly told a friend before departure, “He was devoted to this activity, and always dreamt about becoming a shahid.”

Additionally, intelligence sources said a man from Holland who was among those arrested – Amin Abou Rashed – is a local Hamas leader who has worked for the al-Aqsa Foundation, believed to be a front group for Hamas. Additionally, the Muslim Brotherhood claims Abou Rashed as one of the organizers of the naval convoy.
Israeli military personnel later found night-vision goggles, bulletproof vests and gas masks aboard the ship, in addition to knives, clubs and other weapons with which activists attacked them. Israeli officials said about 50 of the ship’s passengers – many of whom had envelopes stuffed with thousands of dollars – may have ties to global jihadist terror groups.
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said in a speech June 2 that “Israel is facing an unprecedented attack of hypocrisy, not for the first time. The purpose of the naval blockade is to stop weapons from entering Gaza . The purpose of the flotilla wasn’t to enter goods to Gaza – which we allow anyway, on a daily basis – the purpose was to break the naval blockade.

“... If we won’t check every boat the result would be the creation of an Iranian port in Gaza , close to Tel Aviv. That is a real threat to the security of Israel . This was not a love boat – this was a boat of hatred. Our soldiers were attacked with guns – these are not peace activists or pacifists – these are the supporters of an extreme terror groups. We are of course sorry for the lost of lives, but our soldiers were in life danger and were defending themselves from being lynched. I ask myself what other leaders of democratic countries would have done. I speak with leaders of friendly countries that are now criticizing us and ask them – what would you have done?”
The IHH has provided financial support to Iran-backed Hamas and has ties to global jihadi networks and the Muslim Brotherhood – a global umbrella Islamic organization of which Hamas is a branch – as well as mujahideen groups in Afghanistan . In 2006, a study conducted by the Danish Institute for International Studies showed that the IHH was involved in planning an al-Qaeda attack against Los Angeles International Airport in 1999. The IHH reportedly acquired forged documents, enlisted operatives and delivered weapons to al-Qaeda in preparation for the attack, which was ultimately foiled.

The Danish study also cites a French intelligence report which stated that in the mid-1990s the IHH sent a number of operatives into war zones in Muslim countries to get combat experience. The report said that the IHH transferred money and “caches of firearms, knives and pre-fabricated explosives” to Muslim fighters in those countries.

Israeli officials have expressed concern that Islamist groups that endanger Israeli national security now have considerable influence within the Free Gaza movement. According to the group’s own mission statement, “We agree to adhere to the principles of nonviolence and nonviolent resistance in word and deed at all times.” Former Israeli Ambassador to the United States Itamar Rabinovich said the group is “a front for a radical Islamist organization, probably with links to the ruling party in Turkey ."
There is overlap between the Free Gaza movement and the ISM. ISM cofounders Shapiro and Arraf also serve on the board of directors for the Free Gaza movement. Caoimhe Buttlery, an Irish citizen and coordinator of the Free Gaza movement, is also a member of the ISM. Arraf and Shapiro have publicly stated that Palestinians should use violence when necessary: "We accept that Palestinians have a right to resist with arms, as they are an occupied people upon who force and violence is being used,” the couple wrote in 2002 in The Palestine Chronicle. “The Geneva Conventions accept that armed resistance is legitimate for an occupied people, and there is no doubt that this right cannot be denied.” An ISM spokesman in 2003 admitted to hosting a group of 15 people at his apartment including ISM participants Asif Mohammad Hanif and Omar Khan Sharif, British nationals who five days later carried out a suicide bombing in a popular pub next to the U.S. Embassy, killing three people and injuring 60 others. Hanif and Sharif entered Israel under the guise of "peace activists.”
Before setting out for Gaza on the flotilla, Arraf announced her intentions, saying, "We fully intend to go to Gaza regardless of any intimidation or threats of violence against us. They are going to have to forcefully stop us.” Those aboard the ship had prepared weapons to attack Israeli forces.
All of the ships in the flotilla defied warnings by the Israeli Navy not to violate Israeli law by landing in Gaza . Israel ordered the vessels instead to dock in the nearby port city of Ashdod to unload the cargo for security inspections and land delivery to Gaza . Despite the refusal of all six ships to detour to Ashdod , the Turkish passenger ship was the only vessel where a major confrontation took place.

Turkey – a secular country with a Muslim majority – has been a major regional ally of Israel in the past, but the relationship has cooled recently, especially after Turkey lashed out against Israel ’s December 2008-January 2009 defensive military operation in Gaza . Israel carried out the operation to stop more than 10,000 rockets being fired at civilians by terrorist groups. Additionally, Turkey has supported a more conciliatory approach to Iran , in contrast to the United States , Israel and other Western countries who want a new round of sanctions to prevent the Islamic Republic from developing nuclear weapons.
Israel imposed a naval blockade on Gaza after Hamas overthrew the Fatah-led forces of the Palestinian Authority in a bloody coup in 2007. Under international law, Israel has the right to enforce a maritime blockade on Gaza – in international as well as its own territorial waters – when engaged in armed conflict with Iran-backed Hamas. Support for Hamas has decreased in the Gaza Strip since Israel and Egypt imposed a partial blockade on the territory.
Said Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs legal expert Sarah Weiss Maudi, "The Hamas regime has bombarded Israeli communities in Israel , Israeli civilians in Israel , with weapons that are smuggled to Gaza by various routes, and one of these routes is the sea. Under international law a maritime blockade is a recognized and legitimate tool that can be used during an armed conflict."
There is significant evidence that the pro-Palestinian activists who were aboard the flotilla vessels which attempted to reach Gaza May 31 planned their violent activities well in advance and were also talking about becoming “martyrs” over the incident.
IHH head Bulent Yildirimon said the night before the vessels were intercepted that the activists intended to resist the Israeli soldiers. In an interview with Turkish television, Yildirim said, “We will definitely resist and we will not allow the Israelis to enter here… If Israel wants to board this ship, it will meet strong resistance.”
Also, a number of flotilla activists discussed the possibility they might die and become “martyrs” in the course of attempting to reach Gaza in their vessels before they had even set out. The organizers held a press conference in the Turkish city of Antalya before the flotilla sailed, tasking all the participants to write their wills before departing. Walid Al-Tabtabai, a Kuwaiti member of parliament, was among those who wrote a will before leaving on the flotilla.
Another of the flotilla participants was Muhammad Al-Baltaji, the deputy secretary-general of the Muslim Brotherhood parliamentary bloc in Egypt . On May 27, Al-Baltaji said, “The flotilla participants have two aims: to reach Gaza and break the siege, and to denounce Israel if it prevents the flotilla from entering Gaza , even at the cost of martyrdom or imprisonment.”
Attorney Fathi Nassar of Jordan , who was also aboard one of the ships, said, “The Freedom Flotilla members are filled with determination to reach Gaza or die.” The commander of the flotilla reportedly stated a day before the vessels were intercepted that the activists on board would use “resistance.”
Dr. Abd Al-Fatah Shayyeq Naaman, a lecturer in Shari'ah law, said to the Hamas-run television channel al-Aqsa TV: “The [ Gaza ] flotilla commander said yesterday: ‘We will not allow the Zionists to get near us and we will use resistance against them.’”
Historically, ships bound for Gaza have carried tons of weapons among their cargo, including:
“Francop” (2009)
In November 2009 the Israeli Navy intercepted the “Francop,” a ship containing 320 tons of arms sent from Iran and destined for Hezbollah in Lebanon . Weaponry and ammunition were disguised as civilian cargo in the hundreds of containers the ship was transporting.
“Abu Hasan” (2003)
On May 21, 2003 Israeli naval commandos intercepted a fishing boat, the Abu Hasan, sailing from Lebanon to Egypt carrying a Hezbollah explosives expert bound for Gaza. Also seized were CD discs with instructions on how to assemble bomb belts for suicide bombers, a radio-activation system for remote-control bombs and 25 detonators for Kassam rockets.
“Karin A” (2002)
In January 2002 a ship carrying weapons intended for the Palestinian Authority was captured in the Red Sea by Israel 's Navy and Air Force. The boat's cargo included 50 tons of advanced weaponry including Katyusha rockets, rifles, mortar shells, mines and a variety of anti-tank missiles. Senior figures in the Palestinian Authority were involved in the smuggling.
Ashkelon and other coastal cities would have been threatened by these Katyusha rockets if they reached Gaza .
“Santorini” (2001)
On May 7, 2001 Israeli naval forces intercepted a Lebanese ship destined for Gaza, which contained anti-aircraft missiles, anti-tank missile-launchers, RPG rockets, mortar shells, mines, rifles and guns. The shipment, some of which originated in Iran , had been loaded in Lebanon by the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine.[64] The Santorini and another boat, the Calypso-2, made three successful smuggling operations of which the first was in November 2000.
 


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