[Technology] Pay by the mile road pricing...

[nicko31]

Electric cars are potentially a £40BN threat to the tax take through loss in fuel duty.

Is pay per mile the only realistic future now for motoring?

https://news.sky.com/story/road-pri...x-threat-from-electric-vehicle-drive-12133772

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

If motorists are no longer polluting the environment why should they continue to pay a regressive tax ?

 

[blue-shifted]

Unpopular view but I think petrol should be taxed far more heavily that it is....both as a nudge to use cleaner vehicles and to help meet our carbon reduction obligations.

That's where I'd meet the shortfall from in the medium term

 

[GOM]

Unpopular view but I think petrol should be taxed far more heavily that it is....both as a nudge to use cleaner vehicles and to help meet our carbon reduction obligations.

That's where I'd meet the shortfall from in the medium term

Successive governments did/are still doing that with cigarettes, so there is a precedent.

 

[LlcoolJ]

Successive governments did/are still doing that with cigarettes, so there is a precedent.

Yes I was talking to the owner of a local off licence / mini mart the other day and he was saying how on a £12 (!) packet of fags, he makes 39p profit. Bonkers.

 

[strings]

I suspect that we are in for a huge culture shift in how we travel over the next 20 years.

Once 2030 kicks in, I presume petrol, prices will get higher and higher, forcing those who have not moved to electric to do so. Obviously the cost of electric cars will fall, but I do wonder whether families will still stick with the number of cars they have. Due to the pandemic both my wife and I now work at home and that is unlikely to revert back when society returns to normal. I can imagine us dropping down to one car in a few years... I'll just have to walk or get on my bike for local journeys - hopefully there will be more infrastructure for that too.

So, with quite possibly fewer cars on the road, and no emissions-based tax (note: 'road tax' hasn't existed for a long time, so I am careful how I word this), a new way of funding the roads and travel infrastructure will have to be found.

 

[dadams2k11]

Won't happen like the scheme Labour was trying to introduce/plan in 2007 but was dramatically shelved due to a massive backlash with almost two million motorists signing a petition against the move.

 

[nicko31]

If motorists are no longer polluting the environment why should they continue to pay a regressive tax ?

The money has got to come from somewhere, pollution or no pollution consumer needs to pay

What's more its a way to control congestion, ie higher charges in peak hours and in congestion. The technology is there, just need to work with vehicle manufacturers to get trackers onboard as OEM fit

 

[blue-shifted]

I suspect that we are in for a huge culture shift in how we travel over the next 20 years.

Once 2030 kicks in, I presume petrol, prices will get higher and higher, forcing those who have not moved to electric to do so. Obviously the cost of electric cars will fall, but I do wonder whether families will still stick with the number of cars they have. Due to the pandemic both my wife and I now work at home and that is unlikely to revert back when society returns to normal. I can imagine us dropping down to one car in a few years... I'll just have to walk or get on my bike for local journeys - hopefully there will be more infrastructure for that too.

So, with quite possibly fewer cars on the road, and no emissions-based tax (note: 'road tax' hasn't existed for a long time, so I am careful how I word this), a new way of funding the roads and travel infrastructure will have to be found.

General taxation.

Remember, the NHS would save a fortune not have to treat pollution caused lung conditions

 

[blue-shifted]

Won't happen like the scheme Labour was trying to introduce/plan in 2007 but was dramatically shelved due to a massive backlash with almost two million motorists signing a petition against the move.

They've ignored bigger petitions than that. Politically difficult and the Farage's of this world will look to stoke a culture war, but this will be necessary.

 

[Stat Brother]

We should have to pay a bazillion pounds for miles 1 to 5.
A million pounds 5 to 15.
Then 1 pence per mile above 15.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

The money has got to come from somewhere, pollution or no pollution consumer needs to pay

What's more its a way to control congestion, ie higher charges in peak hours and in congestion. The technology is there, just need to work with vehicle manufacturers.

Would you roll that tax theory out to consumers of other public goods ?
Ie hospital consumers (the sick) pay for hospitals,
School consumers ((families) pay for schools.
Etc

Lost revenue from petrol taxes does have to come from somewhere. My suggestion is from progressive rather than regressive taxation.

 

[jonnyrovers]

The only truly sustainable solution to local and national transport needs is a comprehensive and reliable public transport network.

Electric cars need batteries. The batteries need certain metals and minerals. There are insufficient deposits of these to support mass worldwide adoption of the electric car, and the cost/logistics of mining these metals is an obstacle that currently has no workable solution.

A cross party alliance on the future of public transport is urgently required but won't happen with this bunch of tw@ts.

 

[blockhseagull]

I assume therefore that ALL road users will be asked to pay this tax.

If all cars are electric and therefore no longer polluting the environment I assume cyclists would also be in line to pay this tax.

 

[portlock seagull]

I predict NOTHING will be done. Now, where do I collect my winnings?

 

[Berty23]

Just call it road tax and then tax per car, flat rate and stop linking it to pollution.

The issue with whacking up tax on fuel is what happens to people who have no choice but to drive to work such as admin staff at schools (and teachers), other key workers like nurses etc. They can’t all move to live in some areas so then what happens? For example, villages can cost a shed load to live in so teachers can’t afford to live near the school so they have to drive to work. If they pay per mile or have to pay loads of tax on fuel then will those schools be able to get staff? Yes a niche example but that would apply all over the place.

 

[mwrpoole]

If all cars are electric and are being charged up regularly depending on your usage, then surely the obvious taxation point is to hike the VAT on electric (currently 5%). Then you are paying tax based on usage and a system that doesn't need inventing to bill & collect the tax. I guess they could make it a bit more bearable if say the first x units are at 5% and thereafter at x%, so you think your normal household usage is still at 5%.

 

[nicko31]

I assume therefore that ALL road users will be asked to pay this tax.

If all cars are electric and therefore no longer polluting the environment I assume cyclists would also be in line to pay this tax.

Electric cars still pollute the planet just in a different way, what's more VAT on elec is only 5%. Cyclists pollution is minimal and it also promotes health and well being reducing demand on the NHS etc

Use the revenue from variable road pricing to help improve public transport, particularly in rural areas

 

[LamieRobertson]

Start taxing the cyclists per metre....after all there are so many of them now it’ll sort the deficit out in no time

 

[WATFORD zero]

Just call it road tax and then tax per car, flat rate and stop linking it to pollution.

The issue with whacking up tax on fuel is what happens to people who have no choice but to drive to work such as admin staff at schools (and teachers), other key workers like nurses etc. They can’t all move to live in some areas so then what happens? For example, villages can cost a shed load to live in so teachers can’t afford to live near the school so they have to drive to work. If they pay per mile or have to pay loads of tax on fuel then will those schools be able to get staff? Yes a niche example but that would apply all over the place.

With everything that's happening at the moment, I suspect that it's the least well off who are having to travel most for work, and may continue for the foreseeable. If the transport system (however it's implemented) is still going to generate this £40B, then it will just be another tax on the least well off.

Unfortunately, I can't see this changing