Paul Hayward in today's Telegraph

[Gwylan]

well the north laines have improved in the last 20 years...they used to be run down and the haunt of drug dealers.

and churchill square...c'mon, thats better than before!

Actually, I think that North Laine has got worse in the last 20 years. It used to be a cool place to go shopping with lots of second-hand shops. I think I used to buy half my clothes there.

The gentrification of the area for the benefit of well-off Londoners is precisely the sort of thing that Hayward is talking about.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

It's a confused article to be honest.

Same thoughts here. Not sure what the Telegraph readers would make of the article. Not understand most of it, I'd have thought. 'Pre-club bar'? What's the fella on about Gladys? But top marks to the bloke for being able to vent his pancreas (sorry, was going to use the word 'spleen' here, but found it to be a tad overused) against the Privatised Railways - Enemies Of The People, lest we forget - who casually announce via a recorded message that they are 'very sorry' for delays of up to half an hour and 'extremely sorry' for delays of anything beyond that. Most days then. This for a pathetic fifty mile trip in a straight line on a dedicated track. The biggest single cause of stress, marital breakup and associated health problems in the South East, these currants, and no mistake. Fuckers should be sued in exactly the same way as McDonalds and the tobacco companies IMHO.


But the lad's only reflecting what a lot of us now feel about Brighton. Lot of people falling out of love with the town, as it is progressively being reduced to a soul-free weekender theme park for people who know the price of everything and the value of nothing, as the saying goes. I've lived here since 1980, when I first came down to live after a couple of years trooping down from the Medway Towns practically every single weekend to watch punk bands. Moved here to go to gigs. Not as a buy-to-let investment or due to locationlocationlocation. I'm sure it's good for the place as a whole to be pulled up by its bootstraps in this manner, but it's being terminally homogenised along the way.

The football club represents all that is best about what remains of the community of Brighton and Hove. And for that reason alone it is worth fighting for, tooth, nail and all points in between.

And... relax

 

[bigc]

erm. well nostagia is a dangerous dangerous thing

we are where we are now. and its up to us to take back and keep brighton ours

we cant turn the clock back, but we shouldnt give in to the out of towners either

lol, who am I to talk, i have plans to move at the first possible opportunitity i get

 

[The Large One]

Actually, I think that North Laine has got worse in the last 20 years. It used to be a cool place to go shopping with lots of second-hand shops. I think I used to buy half my clothes there.

The gentrification of the area for the benefit of well-off Londoners is precisely the sort of thing that Hayward is talking about.

Mmmm. Can't agree, there.

20 years ago, the North Laine was largely a shit-hole. White-washed windows, boarded up shops, bric-a-brac and crap being sold. In fact, the entire 1980s seemed to be like that. Just a flashback to what Thatcher's Brighton used to be like. Granted there were a few excellent second-hand shops, and I miss the plethora of vinyl shops up Trafalgar Street and along Sydney Street which gave it a bit of soul. But that was about all there was.

(Mainly) local people moved in, did the place up themselves, and transformed the area. There have been few, if any, boarded up shops in the North Laine 'rat-run' (Sydney Street, Kensington Gardens, Gardner Street, Bond Street) for several years now.

Now the area is an attractive place to do shopping, eat, relax, talk bollocks, be 'Bohemian' (whatever that means). It was greatly enhanced with Komedia moving in. Sure, there ar some poncey places, but the area is so full of shops, that some are opening up in the 'quieter' streets - Tidy Street, further up Gloucester Road etc. It has shown that certain areas of central Brighton need not be places to avoid on a Saturday afternoon. This is reflected in the exhorbitant rents you have to pay to the council, who are really creaming off this area now.

If making an area attractive to punters from places apart from Brighton is bad, then who wants to open a shop anyway? It seriously curtails your chance of making your business work if you can't or don't attract customers.

You can't have it both ways.

 

[CHAPPERS]

It's not a bad article. Brighton is a bit up it's own arse but that's because we have a reason to be down here, people are more laid back and tolerant of others although that is changing with the influx of people who seem to want everything they ask for and now.

I'd rather live here than anywhere else but people like me are being forced out. Give us London weighting and we can stay but until then this town will deteriorate into a playground for stag parties and web designers.

 

[H block]

He did`nt seem particularly proud of the new Brighton did he.He could though of written a piece about Worthing and saved himself some time and print....

I like Brighton.Its edgy,sometimes scruffy but always interesting..........................................and its never dull.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

this town will deteriorate into a playground for stag parties and web designers.

Post Of The Day. IMHO, like.

 

[Gwylan]

Mmmm. Can't agree, there.

20 years ago, the North Laine was largely a shit-hole. White-washed windows, boarded up shops, bric-a-brac and crap being sold. In fact, the entire 1980s seemed to be like that. Just a flashback to what Thatcher's Brighton used to be like. Granted there were a few excellent second-hand shops, and I miss the plethora of vinyl shops up Trafalgar Street and along Sydney Street which gave it a bit of soul. But that was about all there was.

(Mainly) local people moved in, did the place up themselves, and transformed the area. There have been few, if any, boarded up shops in the North Laine 'rat-run' (Sydney Street, Kensington Gardens, Gardner Street, Bond Street) for several years now.

Now the area is an attractive place to do shopping, eat, relax, talk bollocks, be 'Bohemian' (whatever that means). It was greatly enhanced with Komedia moving in. Sure, there ar some poncey places, but the area is so full of shops, that some are opening up in the 'quieter' streets - Tidy Street, further up Gloucester Road etc. It has shown that certain areas of central Brighton need not be places to avoid on a Saturday afternoon. This is reflected in the exhorbitant rents you have to pay to the council, who are really creaming off this area now.

If making an area attractive to punters from places apart from Brighton is bad, then who wants to open a shop anyway? It seriously curtails your chance of making your business work if you can't or don't attract customers.

You can't have it both ways.

Yes, fair point. I did like browsing for records in those shops though and I do think some of that character has gone.

You're right, the shops have contributed to the well-being of Brighton and it has been achieved without public money. But it does strike me as an area laid on for 'out-of-town visitors. I do wonder how many people from Moulsecoomb, Whitehawk and Hollingdean shop and drink there now.

And I miss the punk bands in the basement of the old resources centre....perhaps that's what's really wrong with the area now.

 

[Man of Harveys]

So, am I understanding this correctly: for some people, Brighton just isn't scruffy or boring enough? That it would be better if it had more obvious poverty like, say, Hastings, a stagnant property market like some half-derelict former mining village somewhere and about four nightclubs in total - like it had 20 years ago? And that North Laine was actually better when it was nothing more than grotty houses, the Argus printworks and some butchers shops in Kensington Gardens?

Well, it's an opinion. I think it's a stark, staring mad opinion that flies in the face of the vibrancy I see there every day. But maybe that's just me.

I do get pissed off indeed at this eeyore-ish moaning about other these bloody out of towners moving down to "their" town! It would be a joke if it wasn't actually slightly sinister.

About 75% of the population DOESN'T come from Brighton in the first place. Brighton is a state of mind - of tolerance, of fun - that is open to everyone who fancies joining in, whether they're trendy "web designers" or not.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

And I miss the punk bands in the basement of the old resources centre....perhaps that's what's really wrong with the area now.

Mysterious fire put paid to the resource centre if memory serves. Which it may not do. Used to go and watch The Chefs rehearse in there. Remember that bit well. Anybody else recall Attrix Records HQ in Sydney Street? North Laine seems just a bit self-conscious and stylised now, traders dressing down in gorblimeyguvnor Camden-style attire just because they feel they SHOULD. Still at least pubs like the Nelson and the Basketmakers are still tucked away in The Land That Time Forgot. Which is nice.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

I do get pissed off indeed at this eeyore-ish moaning about other these bloody out of towners moving down to "their" town! It would be a joke if it wasn't actually slightly sinister.

About 75% of the population DOESN'T come from Brighton in the first place. Brighton is a state of mind - of tolerance, of fun - that is open to everyone who fancies joining in, whether they're trendy "web designers" or not.

Sorry MoH. Gotta disagree with you there. Brighton WAS all about tolerance. Live and let live. That's being eroded by the pursuit of maintaining property prices. And the last thing the people moving in are is tolerant of anything that even slightly impinges on their personal space. Can only speak from personal experience, but I live in a block of six flats. Home Counties Girl downstairs is up in about ten seconds flat if I dare put me Big Beach Boutique DVD on any notch higher than four out of thirty. The hippies next door dared hold a drumming workshop one sunny saturday afternoon last month and she was round there like a shot. Radio Newsreader in the flat next to her just moved in less than a year ago and is already concerned that the travellers vans across the road which have come and gone for years and cause no problem to anybody are eroding 'our' property prices. Not too many nice ways of telling him to stick his petition up his arse.

Sure, Brighton is a state of mind, and a place to have fun, but IMHO the tolerance aspect is flying straight out the window.

 

[Simster]

Totally agree with MoH. I'm tired of reading whinging posts about web designers and Londoners who are apparently to blame for the homogonisation and blandness of the city. We should be encouraging out-of-towners to come here and integrate, otherwise we'll end up like a bunch of webfooted neanderthal inbreds such as those so often seen in Portsmouth and other grubby seaside settlements.

Gwylan, I always remember the North Laine as a total shit hole when I was growing up, but as far as I'm concerned, there's little wrong with it now. The same goes for Churchill Square, and most of the walk along the seafront between the piers.

The only problems I have with Brighton & Hove are that
a) the schools aren't good enough, except in North Brighton.
b) the traffic is awful. It's better in South West London.
c) the sea front is far too run down as you head west of Hove. It appears the council have forgotton their civic responsibilities in this area just because there is no money in it.

Finally Chapmans, tell me again why do you think you deserve a London weighting? Only it seems to me that the reason the house prices are high is that London wages are being brought back to Brighton, and as the state of the market suggests, there are plenty of people prepared to do that commute despite the shitty transport system - including dozens of people on this board. And if that line ever gets sorted out, watch house prices soar even higher.

 

[Simster]

Sorry MoH. Gotta disagree with you there. Brighton WAS all about tolerance. Live and let live. That's being eroded by the pursuit of maintaining property prices. And the last thing the people moving in are is tolerant of anything that even slightly impinges on their existence. Can only speak from personal experience, but I live in a block of six flats. Home Counties Girl downstairs is up in about ten seconds flat if I dare put me Big Beach Boutique DVD on any notch higher than four out of thirty. The hippies next door dared hold a drumming workshop one sunny saturday afternoon last month and she was round there like a shot. Radio Newsreader in the flat next to her just moved in less than a year ago and is already concerned that the travellers vans acroos the road which have come and gone for years and cause no problem to anybody are eroding 'our' property prices. Not too many nice ways of telling him to stick his petition up his arse.

Sure, Brighton is a state of mind, and a place to have fun, but IMHO the tolerance aspect is flying straight out the window.

You don't appear very tolerant of people who object to having their own personal space invaded by other people's loud music.

 

[Dover]

I agree that it was an interesting article, but being different is being Brighton. To my mind this is nothing new, and has been aptly shown in various films and novels.

I have now lived here for seven years, and I for one would not live anywhere else in Britan. In my time here lots of things have improved for the benefits of local people, eg. improvements on the buses, better paddling pools for children, and the city centre looks cleaner. I for one cannot wait for the new libary. Honest.

As a postscript, if Mr Hayward has become unhappy with his home town, he could always commute from Canterbury. It is the same distance from Victoria, and has not got one percent of the diversity and hedonism that Brighton has or possibly lost.

 

[CHAPPERS]

Finally Chapmans, tell me again why do you think you deserve a London weighting? Only it seems to me that the reason the house prices are high is that London wages are being brought back to Brighton, and as the state of the market suggests, there are plenty of people prepared to do that commute despite the shitty transport system - including dozens of people on this board. And if that line ever gets sorted out, watch house prices soar even higher.

So I have to be prepared to commute to London to be able to live in my own town?

 

[The Large One]

YI do wonder how many people from Moulsecoomb, Whitehawk and Hollingdean shop and drink there now.

I have often wondered if people who were born and raised in these areas actually consider themselves as being part of Brighton. Much in the same way as people from Westdene and Withdean. Not everyone obviously, but you always have apocryphal tales of people from Moulsecoomb never having seen the sea - or a cow or sheep for that matter.

 

[bigc]

well my girlfriend lives in woodingdean, and she feels like she's living in another place as opposed to brighton.

 

[CHAPPERS]

I was born in Bevendean.

 

[London Irish]

So, am I understanding this correctly: for some people, Brighton just isn't scruffy or boring enough? That it would be better if it had more obvious poverty like, say, Hastings, a stagnant property market like some half-derelict former mining village somewhere and about four nightclubs in total - like it had 20 years ago? And that North Laine was actually better when it was nothing more than grotty houses, the Argus printworks and some butchers shops in Kensington Gardens?

Well, it's an opinion. I think it's a stark, staring mad opinion that flies in the face of the vibrancy I see there every day. But maybe that's just me.

I do get pissed off indeed at this eeyore-ish moaning about other these bloody out of towners moving down to "their" town! It would be a joke if it wasn't actually slightly sinister.

About 75% of the population DOESN'T come from Brighton in the first place. Brighton is a state of mind - of tolerance, of fun - that is open to everyone who fancies joining in, whether they're trendy "web designers" or not.

I don't know about post of the day, but this is the best on this thread.

Heyward unfortunately writes like a sports jounalist when confronting these quite difficult social and economic themes - it's all to gereralised, too much bombast, too much purple prose, to discern what the actual real thread of his argument is and what his solutions are.

In complaining about the terrible state of the railways, he might have mentioned in passing that in Brighton this week, his horrid Labour Party conference delegate invaders actually voted to take the railways back into public ownership, snubbing the New Labour grandees.

I also don't agree that the festivals that the council promotes are not for locals but only for out-of-townies. He seems to be fanning divisions here in a Hove-born-and-bred manner - to what end, I'm not sure. And I'm not sure Heyward really knows himself.

Stiill, we'll forgive him a lot of these things for Build the Bonfire.

 

[dougdeep]

Careful L.I., you almost spoke out against a journalist then.