Paul Barber - ID checks of fans at away games?

[wellquickwoody]

The club have my name, address, email address, telephone number and bank account. Probably more stuff beyond that too. And various details of my children too. They'll have details of every ticket I've bought from them.

By getting me to flash a debit card at them at some point in the future at some away ground or other - they're not finding out anything they didn't know anyway.

All valid points. But now it seems that we should be accepting that a business that NEEDS us as customers can tell us what to carry and show if requested when going to a sporting event that is not even happening on their property, or be prepared to do so at a later date. Strange times we live in

 

[chaileyjem]

Beneath you, Jem.

So far this season, I've bought 14, attended 10, couldn't go to 2, and 2 are in the future. At the time I bought the tix for the last 2, and still now, I expect to be able to attend both of the future games. But, shit sometimes happens. Given that the club don't offer refunds (entirely reasonably), if my circumstances change such that I can no longer go, my choices are:

1. Throw the ticket away
2. Sell/give it away to an Albion fan who now can go.

Seems a no-brainer to me, tbh.

I also share (my ST) my tickets with family members and sometimes their friends if they can't go . Of course.. I'd guess nearly every ST holder does this at least 1-2 times a season and probably more for those with kids. Can't see the club stopping this or other fans upset at this - in fact they help you do it with upgrades etc.

The specific issue here though is perceived abuse of the loyalty points system to purchase away tickets. Fans have complained about this though according to PB But so far nobody on this thread yet.

But yep apols. It was a tongue in cheek comment not meant to wind anyone up. I know , given the ££ we spend , how infuriating it can be if the club is inflexible given sky, life and expensive travel arrangements . Checks to me as a way of reducing this practice seem to be potentially crossing the line. Warnings though do not.

 

[Exile]

Beneath you, Jem.

So far this season, I've bought 14, attended 10, couldn't go to 2, and 2 are in the future. At the time I bought the tix for the last 2, and still now, I expect to be able to attend both of the future games. But, shit sometimes happens. Given that the club don't offer refunds (entirely reasonably), if my circumstances change such that I can no longer go, my choices are:

1. Throw the ticket away
2. Sell/give it away to an Albion fan who now can go.

Seems a no-brainer to me, tbh.

Now in reality I guess nobody would bother, but the regulations state that you can't pass on a ticket "without authorisation" I believe?

If you were to e-mail supporter services a couple of days before the game you can't attend, to say, "I have two tickets, Numbers xxxx and xxxx and am unable to attend. I would like to transfer them to my friends, Fan numbers 5000xxx and 5000xxx. Please confirm this is acceptable" then IF they reply saying go ahead, you'd have committed no breach.

 

[pastafarian]

Im quite happy to take ID to far flung games as i can pace myself quite well.
When it comes to London matches though i never take ID at all, just some cash in pocket.

Usually exceptionally tipsy and if i go full diamond white there is the added chance i will get pinched, i am relying on the fact with no ID the old bill will never know who i am and will have to let me go.(phone goes up my bum before you ask)

Not sure Barber is in tune with a good football day out

 

[Hampster Gull]

Is there any other walk of life where, if you buy something but can't use it, you are neither allowed a refund nor allowed to sell it to someone else nor even to give it to someone else for free?

I am against the illiberal, sergeant major response by the club, out of odds with most football clubs but the elite few, but your comment got me thinking. I thought Glastonbury was the most extreme, linking name to indivudual and not allowing anyone else to attend. But they have a resale site i think so where there are changing circumstances then it can be sorted. This isnt available on away purchases (and most home).

 

[Bozza]

So far this season, I've bought 14, attended 10, couldn't go to 2, and 2 are in the future. At the time I bought the tix for the last 2, and still now, I expect to be able to attend both of the future games. But, shit sometimes happens. Given that the club don't offer refunds (entirely reasonably), if my circumstances change such that I can no longer go, my choices are:

1. Throw the ticket away
2. Sell/give it away to an Albion fan who now can go.

Seems a no-brainer to me, tbh.

I was notified of the announcement on, I think, Sunday evening. My main concern, whilst thinking out loud, was the one you highlight: a ticket has been bought with the genuine belief it will be used by the purchaser (or the person they are buying it for), but something comes up that means the ticket can not be used by them. It happens to all of us. Just sometimes, as annoying as it is, life gets in the way of football.

Like you, I strongly believe that a ticket should be used by someone if it possibly can, particularly if it's a game where demand has outstripped supply and there are fans wanting to go but unable to do so. There are no winners if the ticket goes unused and a seat remains empty.

I may be wrong, but I got the impression that this scenario had not been fully considered by the club. and the fact that this announcement didn't come out until Tuesday afternoon (when I was sitting in a pub in Sheffield with you) made me believe that some further thinking around this had been given.

As these things generally happen in the 24-48 hours immediately preceding a game, I can't really see how a return-refund-and-resale process can be practically put in place for such tickets and, frankly, I can't imagine the club would really want the additional administrative burden that such a process would demand.

My general outlook on things is a broadly positive one, and I look for the good before considering the bad. As such, I guess my belief is that when a ticket becomes available in this way, and if a spot check revealed that the ticket is not being used by the original purchaser, then common sense will prevail. How the club identify genuine cases from serial abusers is a difficult one, of course but, again, given my positive outlook I'm happy to trust the club to get it right.

Of course the club is unable to say the above in a broad statement released to fans because it opens them up to a million "What if...?" questions. These statements have to be pretty black and white, even if we all know there are greys in between.

I can see why those of a less positive disposition, and those with a general lack of trust of those holding positions of authority, have reacted in the way they have with this. It wasn't difficult to predict when I first heard of this announcement. Again, though, I have little reason not to trust those with the custody of our club - I really don't think they are trying to make things difficult for us. It's not in their interests to do so, and they're a group of decent people with an often difficult job to do.

 

[Goldstone1976]

Now in reality I guess nobody would bother, but the regulations state that you can't pass on a ticket "without authorisation" I believe?

If you were to e-mail supporter services a couple of days before the game you can't attend, to say, "I have two tickets, Numbers xxxx and xxxx and am unable to attend. I would like to transfer them to my friends, Fan numbers 5000xxx and 5000xxx. Please confirm this is acceptable" then IF they replay saying go ahead, you'd have committed no breach.

Yes, I think that's right in terms of not flouting the club's position. But, as PB says in his reply to El P, there is legislation and EFL regulations preventing the sale or trf of a ticket. I can hardly see the club openly sanctioning the breaking of the law, particularly in writing...

 

[Exile]

Yes, I think that's right in terms of not flouting the club's position. But, as PB says in his reply to El P, there is legislation and EFL regulations preventing the sale or trf of a ticket. I can hardly see the club openly sanctioning the breaking of the law, particularly in writing...

I believe that those regulations themselves also include the "without authorisation" clause.

 

[pastafarian]

I wonder why barber chooses to send out these sort of things when everyone is together pushing hard for promotion...feeling the pressure and excitement in equal measures ...and then on comes this little man to threaten fans with asking for ID?

The timing is bizarre

So when I get a ticket for the villa game in the main stand, will someone from the albion come up to me and ask me where I got my ticket...simple answer. Foxtrot oscar.

Going by the rumours of the amount of people going for this option up front to make sure they can go, i think we need loyalty points to secure a place in the Villa end.

 

[Goldstone1976]

I believe that those regulations themselves also include the "without authorisation" clause.

Oh? I didn't think so, but I have to concede that it's been a while since I read the legislation. If so, then your solution, while a pain, would work.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

I was notified of the announcement on, I think, Sunday evening. My main concern, whilst thinking out loud, was the one you highlight: a ticket has been bought with the genuine belief it will be used by the purchaser (or the person they are buying it for), but something comes up that means the ticket can not be used by them. It happens to all of us. Just sometimes, as annoying as it is, life gets in the way of football.

Like you, I strongly believe that a ticket should be used by someone if it possibly can, particularly if it's a game where demand has outstripped supply and there are fans wanting to go but unable to do so. There are no winners if the ticket goes unused and a seat remains empty.

I may be wrong, but I got the impression that this scenario had not been fully considered by the club. and the fact that this announcement didn't come out until Tuesday afternoon (when I was sitting in a pub in Sheffield with you) made me believe that some further thinking around this had been given.

As these things generally happen in the 24-48 hours immediately preceding a game, I can't really see how a return-refund-and-resale process can be practically put in place for such tickets and, frankly, I can't imagine the club would really want the additional administrative burden that such a process would demand.

My general outlook on things is a broadly positive one, and I look for the good before considering the bad. As such, I guess my belief is that when a ticket becomes available in this way, and if a spot check revealed that the ticket is not being used by the original purchaser, then common sense will prevail. How the club identify genuine cases from serial abusers is a difficult one, of course but, again, given my positive outlook I'm happy to trust the club to get it right.

Of course the club is unable to say the above in a broad statement released to fans because it opens them up to a million "What if...?" questions. These statements have to be pretty black and white, even if we all know there are greys in between.

I can see why those of a less positive disposition, and those with a general lack of trust of those holding positions of authority, have reacted in the way they have with this. It wasn't difficult to predict when I first heard of this announcement. Again, though, I have little reason not to trust those with the custody of our club - I really don't think they are trying to make things difficult for us. It's not in their interests to do so, and they're a group of decent people with an often difficult job to do.

I'm with you on all that, but this statement will make it harder to pass tickets on and will make it harder to find a ticket if you want one, and will thus mean more empty seats at games. just the way of the world

Return-refund-resale should be easy with print at home tickets. Away ones will be harder, granted

 

[Moshe Gariani]

So much hot air from Barber. Essentially he is saying that there isn't really much of a problem with the away loyalty scheme and, crucially, that they won't even ever be checking tickets at matches apart from "people that concern" them...

So why the massive PR own goal, especially at this point in the season? Why not just quietly run the software that lets them catch people out who have heinously tried to get a ticket for their child using his uncle's loyalty points and clamp down on that long accepted fan custom.

As for the nonsense about publicising a related problem with the identity of people using Amex season tickets this is simply another gaffe from Barber. They have said at least a million times that, like every other football club in the world, they don't have a big issue turning a blind eye to season tickets occasionally being passed around among family/friendship groups. All they have to do is politely tell the tiny number of people who phone up asking to re-assign a season ticket permanently that this is unfortunately not possible. The ticket simply has to stay in the name of the original owner.

So why the massive PR own goal, especially at this point in the season?

Barber says that they are in tune with "supporter mentality" and I am sure they are up to a point. But the drive towards excess commercialisation, and everything being about income streams from new types of fan (e.g. getting fans to pay for various membership schemes and to be on waiting lists), is clearly a stronger driving force.

#Together

 

[Thunder Bolt]

With regards to home season tickets, I know someone who has been sharing a season ticket, where they have gone to approx 12 games each over the seasons. This has happened since the Amex opened so not jcls.
Now the unnamed person can afford his own ticket, and his number on the waiting list is over 1,000.
I can see why the club are objecting to season tickets being kept within families etc.

 

[Bozza]

With regards to home season tickets, I know someone who has been sharing a season ticket, where they have gone to approx 12 games each over the seasons. This has happened since the Amex opened so not jcls.
Now the unnamed person can afford his own ticket, and his number on the waiting list is over 1,000.
I can see why the club are objecting to season tickets being kept within families etc.

Agreed. I have two front row WSU seats that I adore. I'd not want to change seats if I could avoid it. The chap to my immediate left has also had his seat there since the Amex opened, but he's not been there for the last 7 or 8 games, and his seat has been empty. My 6-y-o is now suddenly really getting into the Albion, and I probably need a third seat now. I dropped the club a line asking that if that season ticket was not renewed could they remember that I'd quite like it. I'd like to point out that I wasn't looking for a favour in any way.

I was politely told that, no, that couldn't happen due to the size of the waiting list. It's annoying, I'll admit, but it is absolutely correct. So my 6-y-o is now on the waiting list and I'll have to consider what we do when his name gets to the top.

 

[Kuipers Supporters Club]

Agreed. I have two front row WSU seats that I adore. I'd not want to change seats if I could avoid it. The chap to my immediate left has also had his seat there since the Amex opened, but he's not been there for the last 7 or 8 games, and his seat has been empty. My 6-y-o is now suddenly really getting into the Albion, and I probably need a third seat now. I dropped the club a line asking that if that season ticket was not renewed could they remember that I'd quite like it. I'd like to point out that I wasn't looking for a favour in any way.

I was politely told that, no, that couldn't happen due to the size of the waiting list. It's annoying, I'll admit, but it is absolutely correct. So my 6-y-o is now on the waiting list and I'll have to consider what we do when his name gets to the top.

You love the company that the WSU has really!

 

[Notters]

Agreed. I have two front row WSU seats that I adore. I'd not want to change seats if I could avoid it. The chap to my immediate left has also had his seat there since the Amex opened, but he's not been there for the last 7 or 8 games, and his seat has been empty. My 6-y-o is now suddenly really getting into the Albion, and I probably need a third seat now. I dropped the club a line asking that if that season ticket was not renewed could they remember that I'd quite like it. I'd like to point out that I wasn't looking for a favour in any way.

I was politely told that, no, that couldn't happen due to the size of the waiting list. It's annoying, I'll admit, but it is absolutely correct. So my 6-y-o is now on the waiting list and I'll have to consider what we do when his name gets to the top.

I actually think I disagree. I think people who've had a season ticket for some years should be given the opportunity to purchase additional tickets for their kids when they come of age as they're the future of the club. If that ticket isn't being use I think it should be your kid's.

 

[lost in london]

I was notified of the announcement on, I think, Sunday evening. My main concern, whilst thinking out loud, was the one you highlight: a ticket has been bought with the genuine belief it will be used by the purchaser (or the person they are buying it for), but something comes up that means the ticket can not be used by them. It happens to all of us. Just sometimes, as annoying as it is, life gets in the way of football.

Like you, I strongly believe that a ticket should be used by someone if it possibly can, particularly if it's a game where demand has outstripped supply and there are fans wanting to go but unable to do so. There are no winners if the ticket goes unused and a seat remains empty.

I may be wrong, but I got the impression that this scenario had not been fully considered by the club. and the fact that this announcement didn't come out until Tuesday afternoon (when I was sitting in a pub in Sheffield with you) made me believe that some further thinking around this had been given.

As these things generally happen in the 24-48 hours immediately preceding a game, I can't really see how a return-refund-and-resale process can be practically put in place for such tickets and, frankly, I can't imagine the club would really want the additional administrative burden that such a process would demand.

My general outlook on things is a broadly positive one, and I look for the good before considering the bad. As such, I guess my belief is that when a ticket becomes available in this way, and if a spot check revealed that the ticket is not being used by the original purchaser, then common sense will prevail. How the club identify genuine cases from serial abusers is a difficult one, of course but, again, given my positive outlook I'm happy to trust the club to get it right.

Of course the club is unable to say the above in a broad statement released to fans because it opens them up to a million "What if...?" questions. These statements have to be pretty black and white, even if we all know there are greys in between.

I can see why those of a less positive disposition, and those with a general lack of trust of those holding positions of authority, have reacted in the way they have with this. It wasn't difficult to predict when I first heard of this announcement. Again, though, I have little reason not to trust those with the custody of our club - I really don't think they are trying to make things difficult for us. It's not in their interests to do so, and they're a group of decent people with an often difficult job to do.

That's it really isn't it - the club have to put out a bold statement so they have something to point to when some banned p*ssed up numpty gets nicked and is found to have bought the ticket from someone else. The club surely doesn't have the resources, technology or inclination to gestapo-ID every person queuing outside an away ground.

For the 99% who trot along happily to games, don't cause trouble they will never be checked. Keep the faith.

 

[MattBackHome]

"unfortunately, Kieran"

PBs response is perfectly reasonable, except for the above two words which are the most egregious part of the whole affair in my eyes.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

I was notified of the announcement on, I think, Sunday evening. My main concern, whilst thinking out loud, was the one you highlight: a ticket has been bought with the genuine belief it will be used by the purchaser (or the person they are buying it for), but something comes up that means the ticket can not be used by them. It happens to all of us. Just sometimes, as annoying as it is, life gets in the way of football.

Like you, I strongly believe that a ticket should be used by someone if it possibly can, particularly if it's a game where demand has outstripped supply and there are fans wanting to go but unable to do so. There are no winners if the ticket goes unused and a seat remains empty.

I may be wrong, but I got the impression that this scenario had not been fully considered by the club. and the fact that this announcement didn't come out until Tuesday afternoon (when I was sitting in a pub in Sheffield with you) made me believe that some further thinking around this had been given.

As these things generally happen in the 24-48 hours immediately preceding a game, I can't really see how a return-refund-and-resale process can be practically put in place for such tickets and, frankly, I can't imagine the club would really want the additional administrative burden that such a process would demand.

My general outlook on things is a broadly positive one, and I look for the good before considering the bad. As such, I guess my belief is that when a ticket becomes available in this way, and if a spot check revealed that the ticket is not being used by the original purchaser, then common sense will prevail. How the club identify genuine cases from serial abusers is a difficult one, of course but, again, given my positive outlook I'm happy to trust the club to get it right.

Of course the club is unable to say the above in a broad statement released to fans because it opens them up to a million "What if...?" questions. These statements have to be pretty black and white, even if we all know there are greys in between.

I can see why those of a less positive disposition, and those with a general lack of trust of those holding positions of authority, have reacted in the way they have with this. It wasn't difficult to predict when I first heard of this announcement. Again, though, I have little reason not to trust those with the custody of our club - I really don't think they are trying to make things difficult for us. It's not in their interests to do so, and they're a group of decent people with an often difficult job to do.

Agree with much of this but I have my doubts about relying on 'common sense' prevailing. Reading what PB has said I can't see them condoning or turning a blind eye to any scenario where the ticket is in the hands of a differnt person. If I am wrong it would help if we knew what constituted a 'genuine case'.

 

[attila]

In this day and age when games are moved at the whim of the corporate TV monster without a moment's thought for the fans and we are supposed to put up with it with a good grace such an announcement is petty, heavy handed, insensitive and stupid.
Modern football bollocks at its worst.