Normandy seagull
Well-known member
Get rid back to Germany NOW
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[Albion] Pascal Groß the raumdeuter - officially leaves for Dortmund :(
- Thread starter Bakero
- Start date
**** off you ****.
Why was he on the line instead of a defensive player is a proper question
Albion Dan
Banned
Probably felt he had far more chance of scoring there than he ever would in the B'muff net?
Normandy seagull
Well-known member
Yeah that’s would I would say to him on the plane back. But add the word “useless”
Wrong thread.
London Irish
Well-known member
I think Hughton got the best out of him playing at 10. I don’t think he’s good enough as a winger and I hope Potter realises this soon
portslade seagull
Well-known member
He has dropped right off and is just to slow. All he used to offer was delivery but that is now wasted with our strike force. At least with Murray there was a chance that some would get converted
Die Schildkröte.
John Byrnes Mullet
Global Circumnavigator
Worst player on the pitch last night. At best a Championship player. I hope Potter has seen this now after last night's performance and will play Alzate in his place for the remainder of the season.
Frankworthington
Well-known member
portslade seagull
Well-known member
Midfield was pedestrian last night, no pace. At least Alzate produced this and we looked much better when he came on. Gross is a waste of position it's like playing with 10 men
Played well at West Ham. No worse than Mooy yesterday and both were poor.
Missed Stephens and had to sit deep to provide cover, but would agree pace is not something he has.
As for ‘championship player’ comments, ridiculous, obviously missed the first season in the PL.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Missed Stephens and had to sit deep to provide cover, but would agree pace is not something he has.
As for ‘championship player’ comments, ridiculous, obviously missed the first season in the PL.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Change at Barnham
Well-known member
I know deep down that Pascal does a good job for us and I always view him as being reliable but not necessarily all that exciting.
Not being an expert, my eyes tends to follow the likes of Yves Bissouma's marauding runs, Neal Maupay's shooting or so many of our other players magical moments.
The reason for my post is that The Athletic has a long article analysing the contribution of Mezut Ozil at both Arsenal and Real Madrid which breaks down all the aspects of the World Cup winner's play and who Arsenal could consider to replace him.
If you subscribe to The Athletic you'll be able to read the article:
https://theathletic.co.uk/1890403/2020/06/25/arsenal-mesut-ozil-transfer-targets/
I nearly spat out my mouthful of Cornflakes when Pascal was mentioned in a group of world players that so closely matched the requirements to replace Ozil.
"We don’t have a concrete definition of what Arteta is looking for in an attacking midfield player but we can deduce that it involves creating chances and getting the ball into dangerous areas, being comfortable and able to press to win the ball back, not being sloppy in possession, and being able to chip in with the odd goal every once in a while. Using these criteria, we can map each of these desired attributes to the metrics on smarterscout".
"The first name produced via smarterscout’s system will be painfully familiar to Arsenal fans — Pascal Gross, who featured in both games as Graham Potter’s men managed a league double over Arsenal. His aggressive pressing style, demonstrated by his 90 ratings for disrupting opposition moves, made it difficult for Arsenal to comfortably play out from the back. He’s also a set-piece expert and his dead-ball delivery would come in handy at any Premier League outfit. On the other hand, he has the lowest ball-carrying rating of any candidate and does not spend enough time in the opposition’s penalty box. What counts against Gross most of all is his age. Having recently turned 29, he is unlikely to be considered".
So although the writers say they feel Pascal's too old to be considered I found it remarkable that based on scientific data that he should even be mentioned alongside so many other talented players.
For those of you that can't read the article the other players the scouts identified from the data analysis were:
Bayer Leverkusen’s Kerem Demirbay, Eintracht Frankfurt midfielder Daichi Kamada, Wolves’ Diogo Jota, Lorenzo Pellegrini of Roma, Orkun Kokcu of Feyenoord, Barca's Philippe Coutinho, Houssem Aouar of Lyon, John McGinn at Villa and Jonathan David of KAA Gent.
The article emphasised to me just how much I under appreciate the contribution Pascal Gross makes to our team and also how important he his to our shape and discipline.
Not being an expert, my eyes tends to follow the likes of Yves Bissouma's marauding runs, Neal Maupay's shooting or so many of our other players magical moments.
The reason for my post is that The Athletic has a long article analysing the contribution of Mezut Ozil at both Arsenal and Real Madrid which breaks down all the aspects of the World Cup winner's play and who Arsenal could consider to replace him.
If you subscribe to The Athletic you'll be able to read the article:
https://theathletic.co.uk/1890403/2020/06/25/arsenal-mesut-ozil-transfer-targets/
I nearly spat out my mouthful of Cornflakes when Pascal was mentioned in a group of world players that so closely matched the requirements to replace Ozil.
"We don’t have a concrete definition of what Arteta is looking for in an attacking midfield player but we can deduce that it involves creating chances and getting the ball into dangerous areas, being comfortable and able to press to win the ball back, not being sloppy in possession, and being able to chip in with the odd goal every once in a while. Using these criteria, we can map each of these desired attributes to the metrics on smarterscout".
"The first name produced via smarterscout’s system will be painfully familiar to Arsenal fans — Pascal Gross, who featured in both games as Graham Potter’s men managed a league double over Arsenal. His aggressive pressing style, demonstrated by his 90 ratings for disrupting opposition moves, made it difficult for Arsenal to comfortably play out from the back. He’s also a set-piece expert and his dead-ball delivery would come in handy at any Premier League outfit. On the other hand, he has the lowest ball-carrying rating of any candidate and does not spend enough time in the opposition’s penalty box. What counts against Gross most of all is his age. Having recently turned 29, he is unlikely to be considered".
So although the writers say they feel Pascal's too old to be considered I found it remarkable that based on scientific data that he should even be mentioned alongside so many other talented players.
For those of you that can't read the article the other players the scouts identified from the data analysis were:
Bayer Leverkusen’s Kerem Demirbay, Eintracht Frankfurt midfielder Daichi Kamada, Wolves’ Diogo Jota, Lorenzo Pellegrini of Roma, Orkun Kokcu of Feyenoord, Barca's Philippe Coutinho, Houssem Aouar of Lyon, John McGinn at Villa and Jonathan David of KAA Gent.
The article emphasised to me just how much I under appreciate the contribution Pascal Gross makes to our team and also how important he his to our shape and discipline.
I believe Davy is our ultimate 'well he never played like that for us' player.
But recent players ratings threads suggest Pascal isn't far behind.
He spends the entire game closing down the opposition, getting the ball, making space for himself and putting team mates into threatening positions.
But because he does all this bathed in Teutonic efficiency we get:-
Groß - 2 - did nothing.
But recent players ratings threads suggest Pascal isn't far behind.
He spends the entire game closing down the opposition, getting the ball, making space for himself and putting team mates into threatening positions.
But because he does all this bathed in Teutonic efficiency we get:-
Groß - 2 - did nothing.
- Jan 3, 2012
- 17,432
When my wife last year gave me an Albion Annual as a joke, I filled in Davy as my favourite player...... And he probably still is, despite one or two New Kids on the Block. He is a Dutch International, and you don't get many of them to the pound.
Appreciate Pascal as well. We haven't seen a Cruyff turn for a while.
blockhseagull
Well-known member
I think Groß main issues are his lack of pace and currently finding a place in GP system to suit him.
His ideal position is that which he played in our first season in the Prem, he thrived in that pocket between the midfield and the striker, got into goal scoring positions and drifted wide from that position to effect the game. Both last season and this he has been asked to play a much deeper role which has meant he hasn’t had such an effect in an attacking sense.
The puzzle facing Potter is to try and find a role to get the best out of Pascal, and I think he also faces that problem with Alexis Mac.... maybe need to sacrifice wide players to fit them in and go 3 at the back with the wing backs providing width ?
His ideal position is that which he played in our first season in the Prem, he thrived in that pocket between the midfield and the striker, got into goal scoring positions and drifted wide from that position to effect the game. Both last season and this he has been asked to play a much deeper role which has meant he hasn’t had such an effect in an attacking sense.
The puzzle facing Potter is to try and find a role to get the best out of Pascal, and I think he also faces that problem with Alexis Mac.... maybe need to sacrifice wide players to fit them in and go 3 at the back with the wing backs providing width ?
Not Andy Naylor
Well-known member
We have only won once this season when Gross hasn't started.
Disagree. He presses well (albeit slowly and he can’t tackle) and takes a good set piece, is that all we want from someone playing in one of our most creative postions?
Great if he’s making space for himself but then he doesn’t get the ball or is totally ponderous and doesn’t do anything with it when he does. And I wouldn’t say he puts his teammates in threatening positions either. From open play he’s got 1 assist this season and very rarely plays the ball before the assist either. At times this season, he’s given the ball away in really dangerous positions, not reacted or just been incredibly slow which has put us in difficulty. In some games he’s been a liability.
You also highlighted some crosses he made in the Arsenal game in another thread as being very good but I watched them again and just didn’t see it. They weren’t particularly accurate or dangerous and didn’t lead to anything of note.
As someone else said, he was brilliant in the system we played in his first season but maybe we don’t have a place for him anymore. Mooy offers us more playing in the same positions.
Davy on the other hand is class and crucial to the way we play in his position.
Now there's a stat. Interesting.
Of note Like the corner that set up Mooys shot ( well saved) or the cross that led to the corner we equilised from ?