Parachute payments and the importance of tonight...

[B.W.]

I just do not understand why a team that gets relegated can be rewarded for failure. I get it that when it was introduced the teams in the premier league voted for it knowing that at least half the teams are under threat of relegation at some point and they are protecting themselves, but they are not protecting football at a lower level are they. wrong wrong wrong

You are 100% right, right, right.

 

[B.W.]

If you were able to remove your personal hostility, you would see the validity of the points I make.

The basics are this:

Brighton fans feel that too many clubs in their division are at an advantage because they either have benefactors investing too much money into the squad, or they receive what are perceived to be over generous parachute payments. All teams without parachute payments are at a disadvantage. Brighton do have the advantage of Bloom's money, but FFP prevents him from spending on the playing side. I have not seen anyone complain about other teams investment unless it flouts FFP rules

Brighton fans feel as though they should be one of the financial powerhouses of the division because they get big crowds, despite the fact they only have big crowds due to a stadium that was gifted to them (the repayments concept seems to have disappeared entirely). They only had a squad befitting such a wonderful stadium for their first season in the Championship because Bloom heavily invested in it before the club was able to generate the money for such signings itself. They only had a manager to elicit the best out of said squad because League One Brighton, on crowds of 5,000, were able to attract a highly successful former player from his job as Leeds Utd Assistant Manager thanks to the financial help of Tony Bloom. Bloom's money built the stadium, but didn't fill it. Our crowds in Division One were seven not five thousand. Poyet wasn't working for Leeds, he was not employed when Tony Bloom gave him his first job in management.

Brighton's current position, though worthy of much praise, is not as a result of a level playing field. It is largely as a result of major financial backing which facilitated a number of other factors. Would Poyet have come to Brighton without Bloom's vision and promises? This is a truism. Every club's position is as a result of investment from their owner(s), or in some cases debts being wiped by administration.

Again, I reiterate that Brighton need not be ashamed or defensive about any of that, however it does appear to be hypocritical to criticise the methods of other clubs, and use these faux injustices to excuse their own failings. Whilst I don't expect nor demand anyone agrees with this, I fail to see why it need be deemed obtuse and result in the usual personal name calling.The criticism I make and the criticism which I see from others on here does not say 'Its not fair that other teams have parachute payments'. It says that the financial distribution of TV money between PL and Championship is unfair and that paying parachute payments to those relegated is not a sustainable way of bridging this gap. None of this has anything to do with Brighton, nor to do with the fact that you have changed your point several times in this thread whenever anyone has shown that your argument has little basis in fact.

Brilliant response. Maybe the troll will give up now. It would really help the troll if at least some of the bases of his/her arguments were factual.

 

[Northstandite]

If you were able to remove your personal hostility, you would see the validity of the points I make.

The basics are this:

Brighton fans feel that too many clubs in their division are at an advantage because they either have benefactors investing too much money into the squad, or they receive what are perceived to be over generous parachute payments.

Brighton fans feel as though they should be one of the financial powerhouses of the division because they get big crowds, despite the fact they only have big crowds due to a stadium that was gifted to them (the repayments concept seems to have disappeared entirely). They only had a squad befitting such a wonderful stadium for their first season in the Championship because Bloom heavily invested in it before the club was able to generate the money for such signings itself. They only had a manager to elicit the best out of said squad because League One Brighton, on crowds of 5,000, were able to attract a highly successful former player from his job as Leeds Utd Assistant Manager thanks to the financial help of Tony Bloom.

Brighton's current position, though worthy of much praise, is not as a result of a level playing field. It is largely as a result of major financial backing which facilitated a number of other factors. Would Poyet have come to Brighton without Bloom's vision and promises?

Again, I reiterate that Brighton need not be ashamed or defensive about any of that, however it does appear to be hypocritical to criticise the methods of other clubs, and use these faux injustices to excuse their own failings. Whilst I don't expect nor demand anyone agrees with this, I fail to see why it need be deemed obtuse and result in the usual personal name calling.

You have some good points about BHA in this Championship period, but are completely wrong about the League one promotion season and the build up to it. Are you just guessing 3 years on, as part of your argument?

I have the Albion's audited accounts going back years and the losses were tiny in comparison to their competitors and current losses, and were met by TB but also other shareholders. The main reason for the losses each year in the Withdean era were some subsidy of player wages (like almost all FL clubs) but also meeting non-capital costs in the stadium legal battles, and we kept living on transfer fees received in selling our best players. Incidentally the crowds averaged 7,350 - worth mentioning as that gives a lot more income and substantially more in %age terms from the lazily-stated 5,000.

You are also guessing about Southampton in that League One season. From memory our player wages were £4m and theirs £12m. Their youth system must have had a slight lull at that time because other than Lallana & a very young Oxlade, they had assembled a large squad at great expense by L1 standards, including rated & established players you would have heard of - Hammond, Jaidi, Butterfield, Lambert, Connolly, Puncheon, Kelvin Davis, Schneiderlin, Fonte, Barnard, de Prado, and Chaplow. You can see how their massive overspend in raiding clubs like CP, bought them promotion, and gave huge audited losses which were met by the billionaire Markus Liebherr. Brighton's transfer/wages budget at that time was documented at about 6th in that division, behind the likes of Southampton (by a factor of3x), Huddersfield, MKDons, and S.Weds, yet we still won the division early!

Our promotion was earned by some good players, great coaching and a continental style unique to League One at that time. You have the star player of that team on your books - Glenn Murray.

 

[VHA on NSC]

All teams without parachute payments are at a disadvantage. Brighton do have the advantage of Bloom's money, but FFP prevents him from spending on the playing side. I have not seen anyone complain about other teams investment unless it flouts FFP rules

*A great generalisation. Some clubs with parachute payments might be at a disadvantage, as years of being in a more competitive league with higher financial stakes may have left them with large contracts that will saddle them down for years. Aside from not being able to cope with the drastic financial disparity caused by relegation, they could be in chaos due to players demanding moves, not be able to afford retaining them, and so on. Entirely feasible that a stable club building a squad in the Championship could be better placed than a relegated PL club, parachute payments or not.

Bloom's money built the stadium, but didn't fill it. Our crowds in Division One were seven not five thousand. Poyet wasn't working for Leeds, he was not employed when Tony Bloom gave him his first job in management.

*Brighton was his first head coach role, but he had previously worked in a management position at Leeds and Spurs. Therefore, whilst I will graciously concede that he was not employed when hired by Bloom, he was no doubt an expensive hire.

This is a truism. Every club's position is as a result of investment from their owner(s), or in some cases debts being wiped by administration.

*I have no disagreement with this, and even do not take offence at the sly dig, misconceived though it is. But then, I am not acrimonious football fan bleating about how other clubs are run.

The criticism I make and the criticism which I see from others on here does not say 'Its not fair that other teams have parachute payments'. It says that the financial distribution of TV money between PL and Championship is unfair and that paying parachute payments to those relegated is not a sustainable way of bridging this gap. None of this has anything to do with Brighton, nor to do with the fact that you have changed your point several times in this thread whenever anyone has shown that your argument has little basis in fact.

*You can make whatever criticism you want, but of course it is disingenuous for you to the argue it against what I said, being that it was in response to someone saying exactly what you say they aren't saying. The fact is, FFP is not designed to do what you're criticising it for not doing. It's not designed to level the playing field. Its title is a misnomer. Its sole intent is to prevent clubs from spending their way out of business. Even if it were the mechanism you wished it to be, it wouldn't be 'levelling the field'. Why should Brighton, with their brand new freebie stadium, filled with people enticed by subsidised travel, fancy seats, Dick Bars, and curry, be able to spend more than club's who for whatever reason, get smaller crowds? That is at the crux of what many of your fellow fans (if not yourself) cannot stand - they thought they'd be the ones throwing their weight around with their big crowds, but the past year or so has left them thinking they might in fact be nobodies.

Said from the heart, and with love.

 

[VHA on NSC]

You have some good points about BHA in this Championship period, but are completely wrong about the League one promotion season and the build up to it. Are you just guessing 3 years on, as part of your argument?

I have the Albion's audited accounts going back years and the losses were tiny in comparison to their competitors and current losses, and were met by TB but also other shareholders. The main reason for the losses each year in the Withdean era were some subsidy of player wages (like almost all FL clubs) but also meeting non-capital costs in the stadium legal battles, and we kept living on transfer fees received in selling our best players. Incidentally the crowds averaged 7,350 - worth mentioning as that gives a lot more income and substantially more in %age terms from the lazily-stated 5,000.

You are also guessing about Southampton in that League One season. From memory our player wages were £4m and theirs £12m. Their youth system must have had a slight lull at that time because other than Lallana & a very young Oxlade, they had assembled a large squad at great expense by L1 standards, including rated & established players you would have heard of - Hammond, Jaidi, Butterfield, Lambert, Connolly, Puncheon, Kelvin Davis, Schneiderlin, Fonte, Barnard, de Prado, and Chaplow. You can see how their massive overspend in raiding clubs like CP, bought them promotion, and gave huge audited losses which were met by the billionaire Markus Liebherr. Brighton's transfer/wages budget at that time was documented at about 6th in that division, behind the likes of Southampton (by a factor of3x), Huddersfield, MKDons, and S.Weds, yet we still won the division early!

Our promotion was earned by some good players, great coaching and a continental style unique to League One at that time. You have the star player of that team on your books - Glenn Murray.

You appear to be putting words into my mouth. I've at no time suggested any of the things you've suggested. I especially never said Southampton's situation was anything like Brighton's, so particularly do not understand the comparison of squad and finances.

I do, however, enjoy your posting style, informative manner, and tendency to avoid personal insults. For that I commend you.

 

[Stato]

Said from the heart, and with love.

Thanks Bob.

 

[VHA on NSC]

Brilliant response. Maybe the troll will give up now. It would really help the troll if at least some of the bases of his/her arguments were factual.

Do you have anything of your own to say, or will you merely rely on the hard work of others, embellishing it with nothing more than hurtful insults?

 

[VHA on NSC]

Thanks Bob.

I think you do yourself a disservice.

 

[The Camel]

Stato is an excellent poster.