Parachute payments and the importance of tonight...

[Weststander]

The recent upping of parachute payments was part of a sweetener by the ever powerful PL, along with increased but much smaller solidarity payments to all FL clubs, to get the FL to agree to much smaller compensation paid for the raiding of youth talent by PL clubs (such as the Gareth Barry to Villa move), and repeatedly carried out by the likes of Chelski and Arsenal. It was a gun to the head, take it or leave it, stance, and the far weaker FL agreed to it at the last minute.

So a few FL clubs receiving parachute payments will benefit relatively, but over time far more FL clubs will loss out in having highly-regarded youth players they have invested in, poached for next to nothing.

 

[VHA on NSC]

I wonder if the people who constantly go on about parachute payments being unfair will complain if we go up next season and come down the following.

The fallout of relegation from the prem without a financial safety net could in some situations leave a club homeless and we all know how painful that is ............

Very good point. Do they also complain on behalf of clubs trying to make do without £200m of benevolently gifted funds to help them along their way?

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Very good point. Do they also complain on behalf of clubs trying to make do without £200m of benevolently gifted funds to help them along their way?

What about clubs who are bought for 56 pounds and are then asset stripped and left homeless ?

2 sides of the Karma coin, you see.

One chairman took everything away. Karma stepped in, and a later chairman gifted it back.

 

[VHA on NSC]

What about clubs who are bought for 56 pounds and are then asset stripped and left homeless ?

2 sides of the Karma coin, you see.

One chairman took everything away. Karma stepped in, and a later chairman gifted it back.

I'm glad you see that there are many different facets to this scenario. Someone earlier in this thread said that clubs with parachute payments were being 'rewarded for failure'. However, has a club that finds itself in the Championship having been relegated from the top tier 'failed' any more than one that's largely got there as a result of a massive bunk up from a wealthy owner?

Difficult to say if a club with attendances of 5000 getting hold of a supreme talent like Kazenga Lua-Lua and storming league one can really preach to some plucky recently relegated PL team, from a position of somehow having earned their place there more deservingly.

 

[Javeaseagull]

Of course, the Premier Leage could bring in a standard players contract that states that relegation reduces the wage to,say 25% of their wages. Might wake up a few.

 

[Stato]

Difficult to say if a club with attendances of 5000 getting hold of a supreme talent like Kazenga Lua-Lua and storming league one can really preach to some plucky recently relegated PL team, from a position of somehow having earned their place there more deservingly.

We didn't win the division because of Tony Bloom's money.
Kaz started seven games that year. He broke his leg in November. He was a reserve player on loan and had been to Doncaster the year before.
Meanwhile in second place Southampton had spent £1 million just on Ricky Lambert.
If you are going to successfully rewrite history its best that you know what really happened before distorting it. Try this excellent article which covers just about everything except the massive contribution of Radostan Kishishev.

http://thetwounfortunates.com/great-football-league-teams-36-brighton-and-hove-albion-2010-11/

 

[VHA on NSC]

We didn't win the division because of Tony Bloom's money.
Kaz started seven games that year. He broke his leg in November. He was a reserve player on loan and had been to Doncaster the year before.
Meanwhile in second place Southampton had spent £1 million just on Ricky Lambert.
If you are going to successfully rewrite history its best that you know what really happened before distorting it. Try this excellent article which covers just about everything except the massive contribution of Radostan Kishishev.

http://thetwounfortunates.com/great-football-league-teams-36-brighton-and-hove-albion-2010-11/

I presume former Premier League and international player Gus Poyet, the genius behind Brighton's thrifty assault on the title, was also being paid peanuts in comparison to all the other managers in the division?

 

[upthealbion1970]

I presume former Premier League and international player Gus Poyet, the genius behind Brighton's thrifty assault on the title, was also being paid peanuts in comparison to all the other managers in the division?

Remind us all which club went into their second administration that season?

Glass houses and all that

 

[Del Fenner]

I just do not understand why a team that gets relegated can be rewarded for failure. I get it that when it was introduced the teams in the premier league voted for it knowing that at least half the teams are under threat of relegation at some point and they are protecting themselves, but they are not protecting football at a lower level are they. wrong wrong wrong

Unfortunately the Premier League seems to take the view that it should be solely acting in the self interest of its members.

What it fails to see is that it lives off the pyramid structure, and in the long run will be healthier if it invests substantially in the viability and sustainability of both the Football League and the National League System.

 

[Stato]

I presume former Premier League and international player Gus Poyet, the genius behind Brighton's thrifty assault on the title, was also being paid peanuts in comparison to all the other managers in the division?

Yes, we had so much money that we, and we alone, could afford a manager who had played in the Top League or at international level.

... Oh apart from Chris Powell at Charlton

... and Paul Dickov at Oldham

... and Paul Ince and Peter Reid and Lee Clark and Craig Short and Paul Mariner and Gary Megson.

Southampton started the season with Alan Pardew, but how could we expect you to remember his time in the top division?

But, as you've heard of him, Poyet must have been paid significantly more, surely? More than Adkins who moved down a division to take the Southampton job, more than Danny wilson and Chris Hutchings who had both managed in the Premier League.

You don't think that your analysis of the situation maybe subject to a slight anti Brighton bias, do you?

 

[Danny-Boy]

Sorry not having a pop at you Reigate, but we or say Huddersfield can not already compete already so what is your point we are already talking about a closed shop with former teams from the premiership with a distinct advantage, I dont care about clubs with massive wage bills who come down, cut your cloth accordingly maybe put clauses in contracts saying if we get relegated your wages are x amount or we can release you, that is what happens in the real world.

To me the problem is the massive squads accumulated by the top 6 or seven clubs, they can loan players out (like Lingard) for short periods of time and this can swing promotion or relegation issues. The extreme example was Watford's pathetic and (to my mind) criminal attempt to get in the Premiership with a load of Italian/Spanish mercenaries last season. Look what happened to them this time without most of them, just mid-table.

Most of the teams who have plummeted down have made huge mistakes in their managerial control as well. Maybe managerial contracts should be more legally protected.

 

[VHA on NSC]

Yes, we had so much money that we, and we alone, could afford a manager who had played in the Top League or at international level.

... Oh apart from Chris Powell at Charlton

... and Paul Dickov at Oldham

... and Paul Ince and Peter Reid and Lee Clark and Craig Short and Paul Mariner and Gary Megson.

Southampton started the season with Alan Pardew, but how could we expect you to remember his time in the top division?

But, as you've heard of him, Poyet must have been paid significantly more, surely? More than Adkins who moved down a division to take the Southampton job, more than Danny wilson and Chris Hutchings who had both managed in the Premier League.

You don't think that your analysis of the situation maybe subject to a slight anti Brighton bias, do you?

It's nothing to do with my bias. The bias is that people repeatedly say that your promotion from Division One had nothing to do with Bloom's money. Clearly a fallacy. Brighton shouldn't have been able to afford any of the managers in the list you mention, going on the Brighton 'fair play' model. Why should Brighton have a better manager than Charlton that year? Then comes 'glass houses, administration etc'. The very point is that I'm not in the glass house. I am not bemoaning the 'reward for failure' parachute payments whilst at the same time attempting to sweep my own club's very handy leg up to then Championship under the carpet.

My Brighton friends, it's nothing to be ashamed of, but to merely acknowledge this state of affairs would surely avoid much gnashing of teeth and misplaced feelings of injustice?

 

[Stato]

It's nothing to do with my bias. The bias is that people repeatedly say that your promotion from Division One had nothing to do with Bloom's money. Clearly a fallacy. Brighton shouldn't have been able to afford any of the managers in the list you mention, going on the Brighton 'fair play' model. Why should Brighton have a better manager than Charlton that year? Then comes 'glass houses, administration etc'. The very point is that I'm not in the glass house. I am not bemoaning the 'reward for failure' parachute payments whilst at the same time attempting to sweep my own club's very handy leg up to then Championship under the carpet.

My Brighton friends, it's nothing to be ashamed of, but to merely acknowledge this state of affairs would surely avoid much gnashing of teeth and misplaced feelings of injustice?

I would not deny that everything the club has is thanks to the genorosity of Tony Bloom, but you not only have the wrong year, you forget that whilst at Withdean we acheived two promotions from the same division before Bloom was chairman. After winning League One, we bought CMS, Buckley, Hoskins, Lua Lua etc, but this is the squad which won the league under a manager in his first job.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010–11_Brighton_&_Hove_Albion_F.C._season

We paid fees for Greer, Noone, Barnes and Murray and the rest were frees, loans and graduates. Only 36 year old Kish and 6 years retired Tarricco had played at the top level. No critics tipped us at title contenders at the beginning of the season, but we went top in August and stayed there.

I am happy to admit that you got promoted against the financial odds last year, perhaps you would have the good grace to stop pretending that we didn't in 2010/11.

 

[VHA on NSC]

I would not deny that everything the club has is thanks to the genorosity of Tony Bloom, but you not only have the wrong year, you forget that whilst at Withdean we acheived two promotions from the same division before Bloom was chairman. After winning League One, we bought CMS, Buckley, Hoskins, Lua Lua etc, but this is the squad which won the league under a manager in his first job.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010–11_Brighton_&_Hove_Albion_F.C._season

We paid fees for Greer, Noone, Barnes and Murray and the rest were frees, loans and graduates. Only 36 year old Kish and 6 years retired Tarricco had played at the top level. No critics tipped us at title contenders at the beginning of the season, but we went top in August and stayed there.

I am happy to admit that you got promoted against the financial odds last year, perhaps you would have the good grace to stop pretending that we didn't in 2010/11.

It's not about that at all. If ragtag, heroic Brighton did indeed manage a Yeovil style promotion, without the backing of Bloom, they would have suffered a Yeovil style immediate return. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that, it would just be nice if Brighton fans themselves could be more gracious to other clubs in their division, rather than constantly claiming the higher ground and bemoaning the 'fortuity' of others.

 

[Stato]

It's not about that at all. If ragtag, heroic Brighton did indeed manage a Yeovil style promotion, without the backing of Bloom, they would have suffered a Yeovil style immediate return. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that, it would just be nice if Brighton fans themselves could be more gracious to other clubs in their division, rather than constantly claiming the higher ground and bemoaning the 'fortuity' of others.

I have to presume that you are being deliberately obtuse now.

We did acheive that type of promotion twice and both times we cut our cloth and evenutally went back down.
When we were promoted in 2011 we moved to a 20,000 seat stadium and sold it out. Strangely, we were then able to compete on a more even field.

I have been gracious over your promotion. I see that you are incapable of doing what you ask of others.

 

[VHA on NSC]

I have to presume that you are being deliberately obtuse now.

We did acheive that type of promotion twice and both times we cut our cloth and evenutally went back down.
When we were promoted in 2011 we moved to a 20,000 seat stadium and sold it out. Strangely, we were then able to compete on a more even field.

I have been gracious over your promotion. I see that you are incapable of doing what you ask of others.

Brighton's promotion was a good achievement, but then so was Southampton's, just in a different way (especially given their subsequent excellent strategy in furthering their success). I take no credit away from Brighton in using Bloom's financial support and a variety of other factors in achieving success.

Again however, I do take umbrage in the assertion from many of your fans that Brighton's success is somehow more righteous than that of other clubs, and that the relative advantages that other clubs have is unfair, now that the boot is on the other foot. For instance, if, in two season's time, Brighton miss out on Promotion due to Burnley taking the last spot etc with the help of their parachute payments, I would feel Burnley's improved financial standing in the Championship due to the success of their prior promotions is every much as valid an advantage as Bloom's investment in BHAFC.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

I have to presume that you are being deliberately obtuse now.

We did acheive that type of promotion twice and both times we cut our cloth and evenutally went back down.
When we were promoted in 2011 we moved to a 20,000 seat stadium and sold it out. Strangely, we were then able to compete on a more even field.

I have been gracious over your promotion. I see that you are incapable of doing what you ask of others.

He is, of course.

A master class in stealth-trolling.

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

I have to presume that you are being deliberately obtuse now.

He/She is on my ignore - Stato old fruit, I suggest you do the same. You will not get any sense.

 

[VHA on NSC]

He is, of course.

A master class in stealth-trolling.

If you were able to remove your personal hostility, you would see the validity of the points I make.

The basics are this:

Brighton fans feel that too many clubs in their division are at an advantage because they either have benefactors investing too much money into the squad, or they receive what are perceived to be over generous parachute payments.

Brighton fans feel as though they should be one of the financial powerhouses of the division because they get big crowds, despite the fact they only have big crowds due to a stadium that was gifted to them (the repayments concept seems to have disappeared entirely). They only had a squad befitting such a wonderful stadium for their first season in the Championship because Bloom heavily invested in it before the club was able to generate the money for such signings itself. They only had a manager to elicit the best out of said squad because League One Brighton, on crowds of 5,000, were able to attract a highly successful former player from his job as Leeds Utd Assistant Manager thanks to the financial help of Tony Bloom.

Brighton's current position, though worthy of much praise, is not as a result of a level playing field. It is largely as a result of major financial backing which facilitated a number of other factors. Would Poyet have come to Brighton without Bloom's vision and promises?

Again, I reiterate that Brighton need not be ashamed or defensive about any of that, however it does appear to be hypocritical to criticise the methods of other clubs, and use these faux injustices to excuse their own failings. Whilst I don't expect nor demand anyone agrees with this, I fail to see why it need be deemed obtuse and result in the usual personal name calling.

 

[Stato]

If you were able to remove your personal hostility, you would see the validity of the points I make.

The basics are this:

Brighton fans feel that too many clubs in their division are at an advantage because they either have benefactors investing too much money into the squad, or they receive what are perceived to be over generous parachute payments. All teams without parachute payments are at a disadvantage. Brighton do have the advantage of Bloom's money, but FFP prevents him from spending on the playing side. I have not seen anyone complain about other teams investment unless it flouts FFP rules

Brighton fans feel as though they should be one of the financial powerhouses of the division because they get big crowds, despite the fact they only have big crowds due to a stadium that was gifted to them (the repayments concept seems to have disappeared entirely). They only had a squad befitting such a wonderful stadium for their first season in the Championship because Bloom heavily invested in it before the club was able to generate the money for such signings itself. They only had a manager to elicit the best out of said squad because League One Brighton, on crowds of 5,000, were able to attract a highly successful former player from his job as Leeds Utd Assistant Manager thanks to the financial help of Tony Bloom. Bloom's money built the stadium, but didn't fill it. Our crowds in Division One were seven not five thousand. Poyet wasn't working for Leeds, he was not employed when Tony Bloom gave him his first job in management.

Brighton's current position, though worthy of much praise, is not as a result of a level playing field. It is largely as a result of major financial backing which facilitated a number of other factors. Would Poyet have come to Brighton without Bloom's vision and promises? This is a truism. Every club's position is as a result of investment from their owner(s), or in some cases debts being wiped by administration.

Again, I reiterate that Brighton need not be ashamed or defensive about any of that, however it does appear to be hypocritical to criticise the methods of other clubs, and use these faux injustices to excuse their own failings. Whilst I don't expect nor demand anyone agrees with this, I fail to see why it need be deemed obtuse and result in the usual personal name calling.The criticism I make and the criticism which I see from others on here does not say 'Its not fair that other teams have parachute payments'. It says that the financial distribution of TV money between PL and Championship is unfair and that paying parachute payments to those relegated is not a sustainable way of bridging this gap. None of this has anything to do with Brighton, nor to do with the fact that you have changed your point several times in this thread whenever anyone has shown that your argument has little basis in fact.