[Travel] P and O

[nicko31]

Until this country stops punching itself in the face every 5 years we can expect a lot more of this.

What happened yesterday is Jacob Ree-Mogg's idea of a perfect wet dream. The sooner all regulation and rights are binned the better

 

[beorhthelm]

Freeports will be an absolute disaster. P & O on serial steroids.

Let's rule them out immediately.

freeports are just exempt goods and companies in them from taxes. you import and forward, or import, make something and ship it out without duties. another thing we could have done before brexit but didnt, they are common across EU.

 

[nicko31]

freeports are just exempt goods and companies in them from taxes. you import and forward, or import, make something and ship it out without duties. another thing we could have done before brexit but didnt, they are common across EU.

Sounds like a good opportunity for the likes of China to flood our market with cheap goods and uncut our own products.

 

[beorhthelm]

I suspect the suggestion that the reason that P and O didn't do the same to French workers is because they feared the response of more organized, and more effective, French unions are correct.

there's a lot being made of this French thing. no one mentions Irish or Dutch workers. i suspect the reason no French or other workers affected is because it was only crew, no land based staff involved. though do we know that not a single French national was fired, or there were any in the crew?

 

[beorhthelm]

Sounds like a good opportunity for the likes of China to flood our market with cheap goods and uncut our own products.

China typically produces finished goods. it would be an opportunity to ship in components say electronics parts or circuits, and build end products to then export elsewhere without duties. they are quite popular in the areas likely to have them, SNP keen on them in Scotland.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

there's a lot being made of this French thing. no one mentions Irish or Dutch workers. i suspect the reason no French or other workers affected is because it was only crew, no land based staff involved. though do we know that not a single French national was fired, or there were any in the crew?

It is the Express but Zero French Workers emphasised.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1...o-french-staff-all-uk-seafarers-ferry-cruises

 

[WATFORD zero]

there's a lot being made of this French thing. no one mentions Irish or Dutch workers. i suspect the reason no French or other workers affected is because it was only crew, no land based staff involved. though do we know that not a single French national was fired, or there were any in the crew?

This report suggests that the British seafarers were employed under Jersey contracts and is the only reference I can find to Dutch employees.

Angry reactions over mass layoffs at “antisocial and inhuman” P&O Ferries

According to Marcel van Dam of Nautilus, the company is firing British seafarers working under a Jersey contract. In the Netherlands, that would not have been allowed at all, especially because the trade unions were not consulted beforehand, he said.

P&O Ferries said that the 2,200 other employees don't have to fear for their jobs. That would include the 130 Dutch seafarers and 150 port and office workers in the Netherlands.

https://nltimes.nl/2022/03/18/angry-reactions-mass-layoffs-antisocial-inhuman-po-ferries

 

[Eric the meek]

Project fear turns out to be project reality after all.

 

[beorhthelm]

This report suggests that the British seafarers were employed under Jersey contracts and is the only reference I can find to Dutch employees.

Angry reactions over mass layoffs at “antisocial and inhuman” P&O Ferries

According to Marcel van Dam of Nautilus, the company is firing British seafarers working under a Jersey contract. In the Netherlands, that would not have been allowed at all, especially because the trade unions were not consulted beforehand, he said.

P&O Ferries said that the 2,200 other employees don't have to fear for their jobs. That would include the 130 Dutch seafarers and 150 port and office workers in the Netherlands.

https://nltimes.nl/2022/03/18/angry-reactions-mass-layoffs-antisocial-inhuman-po-ferries

Jersey contracts is something else in to the mix. also notes not allowed without consultation, same case in UK. 90 days required, and for company this size need to notify government.

 

[RandyWanger]

Not happening in France because the billionaire filth know French workers would shut down the ships, the ports and the motoways leading to them, and a lot of French people would stand in solidarity with them.

We'd be out rioting, setting fire to shit and luzzing bricks through windows. Allez les Bleus!

 

[WATFORD zero]

Jersy contracts is something else in to the mix. also notes not allowed without consultation, same case in UK.

From that report, it appears that the Netherlands can make their own employment laws even though they're in the EU. Who would have thought

I guess we'll see whether Jersey comes under UK law, UK law is the same, and can be upheld in court in the next few weeks.

Can you see P&O getting it this wrong though ? Sadly, I can't

 

[nicko31]

China typically produces finished goods. it would be an opportunity to ship in components say electronics parts or circuits, and build end products to then export elsewhere without duties. they are quite popular in the areas likely to have them, SNP keen on them in Scotland.

Why bother with components and pay western labour rates to value add, just ship finished product. Just drip feed into the market from a bonded warehouse in the freeport

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

China typically produces finished goods. it would be an opportunity to ship in components say electronics parts or circuits, and build end products to then export elsewhere without duties. they are quite popular in the areas likely to have them, SNP keen on them in Scotland.

Great idea, in theory, but British workers are "among the worst idlers in the world". I read this in ‘Britannia Unchained’ by Patel, Raab, and Truss.

Now, where have I heard those names before?

 

[beorhthelm]

Why bother with components and pay western labour rates to value add, just ship finished product. Just drip feed into the market from a bonded warehouse in the freeport

fair point.

 

[Bry Nylon]

Great idea, in theory, but British workers are "among the worst idlers in the world". I read this in ‘Britannia Unchained’ by Patel, Raab, and Truss.

Now, where have I heard those names before?

That, Sir, is an outrageous slur on the good folk of NSC who've sacrificed a considerable proportion of each working day to share their thoughts on here over many years.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

That, Sir, is an outrageous slur on the good folk of NSC who've sacrificed a considerable proportion of each working day to share their thoughts on here over many years.

This reminds me of a news report in the Daily Mash about an outbreak of productivity at a company when their internet broke.

 

[Seaview Seagull]

There seems to be a degree of misunderstanding re employment law in the EU. As I understand it the EU "law" is about matters of discrimination etc. Again as far as I know each country has it's own employment law which differ from country to country. They are only subject to EU action when it's claimed there has been a breach of the rights covered by the EU which does not include matters such as unfair dismissal (unless some form of discrimination is involved) or redundancy.

Of course what P and O have done is dispicable. It may also contravene UK law. The company are seeking to avoid the legal problems by paying the former employees compensation that would be more than the could get from a court action. However, the lack of consultation makes it a matter for recognised trade unions and the DWP so it will be interesting to see what happens there.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

There seems to be a degree of misunderstanding re employment law in the EU. As I understand it the EU "law" is about matters of discrimination etc.

No it is not just about discrimination. A very quick Google search will show that it also covers health and safety, working conditions including Fixed-Term, Part-Time and temporary agency work and many other areas.

I do agree there seems to be a degree of misunderstanding though.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Exactly the same thing happened with Irish Ferries in 2005 - they sacked their entire workforce who were unionised and on trade union rates of pay - and employed workers from Latvia at the Latvian minimum wage of €2 per hour.

Despite the fact that 250,000 workers and trade unionists march through the streets of Dublin - the Irish TUC leadership sat on their hands.

This could be stopped in the blink of an eye of the leadership of the TUC in Britain acted - yet they will likely do exactly that same as their counterparts in Ireland 17 years ago.

Thanks to Thatcher 'secondary action' is not legal in the UK. The only people who can strike are the sacked workers.

The British people voted for this because they didn't like being dictated to by unions.

I doubt the British people will concern itself much with the sacked workers. We have moved on from all that sort of thing. We are free, now.

 

[Peteinblack]

Thanks to Thatcher 'secondary action' is not legal in the UK. The only people who can strike are the sacked workers.

The British people voted for this because they didn't like being dictated to by unions.

I doubt the British people will concern itself much with the sacked workers. We have moved on from all that sort of thing. We are free, now.

Indeed they won't - but when those workers sign-on and claim dole, those same British people will complain bitterly about the escalating welfare bill and the growing number of 'scroungers' that they read about in the Daily Mail. British people really aren't very good at making the 'connections' between unwanted or undesirable events and outcomes.