Our troops homecoming

[smudge]

Er, because he's ex Royal Navy and" percy pongo" is a nickname the Navy have for the Army , he is very pro our boys, you owe him an apolopgy jimbo.

He has Bushy, but well spotted Perce!

 

[Hampden Park]

tsk tsk smiff, you upsetting everyone again . how you going shipwreck? getting in some more sea time? (about time too)

 

[brunswick]

hehe.....some in this thread believe "Al Qaeda" exists.........lol.

i am out of this thread........some have too much ground to make up, and are not even prepared to leave the comfort of mainstream media (controlled by 5 profit making mega corps).


clue: "Al Qaeda" research Robin Cook's views on what this was before his "sudden death" and follow your nose.

 

[Northstandite]

hehe.....some in this thread believe "Al Qaeda" exists.........lol.

i am out of this thread........some have too much ground to make up, and are not even prepared to leave the comfort of mainstream media (controlled by 5 profit making mega corps).

clue: "Al Qaeda" research Robin Cook's views on what this was before his "sudden death" and follow your nose.

Follow your nose. Follow the writings too of David Icke and Enid Blyton, and you will find that Al Qaeda is fictitious.
We are all victims of a conspiracy by the Bilderberg Group (Martian Lizards, masquerading as humans).

 

[Northstandite]

Get real my friend, this is a religious/ideology battle as well, the taliban/islam have told us so. So we sit back adopt their religious beliefs then ? Try telling your girlfriend, wife or partner. Girlfriend/Wife would be stoned to death for infidelity and if its your partner (I think you know where I'm coming from) then both of you stoned to death, if that's fine by you then I think you need to consult your thoughts a little bit more. Don't forget these are the same people who were behind the murder of Robert Eaton, whose charity we have supported for 10 years. Is his innocent death acceptable to you then ? no ifs, no buts, no maybe's...please answer that last question as clear as you can !! I can't wait for this one. RIP Robert Eaton

Jimbo. You talk sense.

The 'evil' NATO also went into Kosovo and Afganistan where the oil reserves are, wait for it ....... Zero.

After the murder of Bosnia and Ruwanda, where feasible, there has been more intervention.

Zimbabwe ... no action, as this is completely land locked, and African Congress nations generally appease or support Mugabe. How could a NATO or UN force get there and with what mandate?

The women of Afganistan and the people of Kosovo are thankful for Western help.

The Alternative: Blame the USA, Jews, Western Europe, Capitalist business for every problem the world has ever had;
but be a hyopcrite and be secretly thankful that WAR, yes WAR was raged against Hitler to give you your freedom, enjoy the benefits of a capitalist economy, with your own materialism the same as every other Westerner. Pretend that the world was just fine before the USA became a force. Ignore their contribution in maintaining the freedom YOU enjoy today with their help in 1918, 1945 and since.

 

[Monsieur Le Plonk]

me like brunswick - he funny

Am I wrong in that it's posters like him that keeps me coming back to this thread. Fascinating fellow.

 

[smudge]

tsk tsk smiff, you upsetting everyone again . how you going shipwreck? getting in some more sea time? (about time too)

Foxy! Didn't mean it this time. Fair play to anyone who serves out there. I doff my lid to them.

 

[brunswick]

me like brunswick - he funny

Am I wrong in that it's posters like him that keeps me coming back to this thread. Fascinating fellow.

let me put that another way then......(without the so predictable defensive "you are funny" retorts).....why do YOU believe AQ exists?

"Al-Qaida, literally 'the database,' was originally the computer file of the thousands of mujahideen who were recruited and trained with help from the CIA and MI6 to defeat the Russians. This is DECLASSIFIED FACT........Robin Cook died soon after the Guardian published (yes, PUBLISHED) his backing of this FACT.

stay asleep Plonky Plank.......your media is feeding you the truth ZZzzzzz.

 

[brunswick]

yep, AQ did this didn't they.....ZZZzzz

get the CNN footage and see for yourself..........or just call me a icke following lizard loving crazy......because that needs no independent research that MAY damage your belief systems......

 

[dingodan]

I stopped reading this thread because it was making me sad.

I have just quickly glanced over recent posts and some people have been making the point that Afghanistan has no oil.

If you had only read my previous posts you would see that while Afghanistan has no oil, it is a key location for the developement of oil and gas pipelines. Natural resources largely dictate foriegn policy, that is both the location of the resources themselves, and the securing of the routes required for their transport. This tends to be referred to using the orwellian term "energy security". So yes Afghanistan is related to our energy interests.

As for al qaeda, "al qaeda" is a boogyman term, there is no organisation called al qaeda. There are angry muslim men who share a hatred for us which is a result of what we have done in that region for decades. We also tend to muddle in the Taliban with "al qaeda" when the Taliban have completely different objectives to those who would like to do us harm (and there are a small number who are motivated to do us harm). The Taliban's objective is to fight off foriegn occupiers on their land. We helped them do this in the 70s when they were fighting the Soviet occupation, they were called the Mujahideen back then, and they were also what we referred to then as "freedom fighters".

There are a small number of people in that region who do want to cause us harm, but we need to take note of several important parts of the picture. First, their reasons for wanting to cause us harm are not religious. Religion is used by a very small minority, a minority who by their numbers and their views are so insignificant they should be unnoticable to us. But this small number of individuals are able to convince and motivate others, particularly young people, to join their cause. But they dont motivate them by reading them the Koran. They motivate them by showing them pictures of their dead brothers and sisters killed by a drone. That is if pictures are even necessary because many of these young people have seen the horrors of war which we have brought to their country for themselves anyway. Without our actions the vast majority of people in the middle east would not be convinced by the small few who hold ideological views which promote violence.

One of the problems with this situation, I feel, is that the majority of ordinary muslims only see the likes of Blair and Bush and they dont see ordinary people in the west or hear their views. By the same token all we hear and see are the likes of Osama and Al zawahiri, again not seeing the ordinary people of the region and hearing their views.

If only we did we would all realise that we have much more in common with each other than we do with the Blairs and the Osamas and others who pursue and justify violence.

Finally, Shariah Law will never come to this country. Thinking that if we did not have these wars we would have our culture and society overthrown is just not true and we should not accept this argument.

But for those making this argument let me ask you this. If the prospect of someone else coming over here and imposing their values and their culture on us is so abhorrent to you, why can you not see why the people of the middle east resent and fear us so much?

 

[dingodan]

Don't forget these are the same people who were behind the murder of Robert Eaton, whose charity we have supported for 10 years. Is his innocent death acceptable to you then ? no ifs, no buts, no maybe's...please answer that last question as clear as you can !! I can't wait for this one. RIP Robert Eaton

The implication of your question is that if you do not support revenge through violence, then you consider Robert Eaton's death to be acceptable.

Obviously this is false, and these type of arguements are shameful. This is the logic of the extreemist, it is the logic of those who say to their fellow muslims "if you dont agree with killing westerners then you support their war".

This subject is looked at very emotionally, and afew people have told me off for dealing with it in an intellectual way.

We are encouraged through the media and our politicians to engage these subjects emotionally, with the invoking of 7/7 and similar events. But the political (and business) class, by neccessity, plan and sell this war using intellect.

They encourage us to look at these things from an emotional viewpoint, because if we looked at them from an intellectual viewpoint we would see what they see. That these wars dont benefit us, they only benefit them.

 

[Charlies Shinpad]

March through Chichester

My son and his mates from 47 Royal Artillery ( based at Thorney island) are marching through Chichester on July 5th as part of there return from Afghan.

Ive no idea what time it will be but I will certainly be there !!

 

[Jimbo.GRFC]

I stopped reading this thread because it was making me sad.

I have just quickly glanced over recent posts and some people have been making the point that Afghanistan has no oil.

If you had only read my previous posts you would see that while Afghanistan has no oil, it is a key location for the developement of oil and gas pipelines. Natural resources largely dictate foriegn policy, that is both the location of the resources themselves, and the securing of the routes required for their transport. This tends to be referred to using the orwellian term "energy security". So yes Afghanistan is related to our energy interests.

As for al qaeda, "al qaeda" is a boogyman term, there is no organisation called al qaeda. There are angry muslim men who share a hatred for us which is a result of what we have done in that region for decades. We also tend to muddle in the Taliban with "al qaeda" when the Taliban have completely different objectives to those who would like to do us harm (and there are a small number who are motivated to do us harm). The Taliban's objective is to fight off foriegn occupiers on their land. We helped them do this in the 70s when they were fighting the Soviet occupation, they were called the Mujahideen back then, and they were also what we referred to then as "freedom fighters".

There are a small number of people in that region who do want to cause us harm, but we need to take note of several important parts of the picture. First, their reasons for wanting to cause us harm are not religious. Religion is used by a very small minority, a minority who by their numbers and their views are so insignificant they should be unnoticable to us. But this small number of individuals are able to convince and motivate others, particularly young people, to join their cause. But they dont motivate them by reading them the Koran. They motivate them by showing them pictures of their dead brothers and sisters killed by a drone. That is if pictures are even necessary because many of these young people have seen the horrors of war which we have brought to their country for themselves anyway. Without our actions the vast majority of people in the middle east would not be convinced by the small few who hold ideological views which promote violence.

One of the problems with this situation, I feel, is that the majority of ordinary muslims only see the likes of Blair and Bush and they dont see ordinary people in the west or hear their views. By the same token all we hear and see are the likes of Osama and Al zawahiri, again not seeing the ordinary people of the region and hearing their views.

If only we did we would all realise that we have much more in common with each other than we do with the Blairs and the Osamas and others who pursue and justify violence.

Finally, Shariah Law will never come to this country. Thinking that if we did not have these wars we would have our culture and society overthrown is just not true and we should not accept this argument.

But for those making this argument let me ask you this. If the prospect of someone else coming over here and imposing their values and their culture on us is so abhorrent to you, why can you not see why the people of the middle east resent and fear us so much?

Pathetically Simplistic....but they are oppressed by their own dictators

 

[Jimbo.GRFC]

Pathetically Simplistic....but they are oppressed by their own dictators

Are you studying this as part of your college course ??

 

[BadFish]

Pathetically Simplistic....but they are oppressed by their own dictators

Jimbo, Many of these issues are over complicated by the mainstream media in order to confuse. A little investigation (i am in no way an expert) into alternative viewpoints throws up some simple and logical explanations for modern issues. Then you just need to choose which one to believe the logical and simple explanation or the confusing and misleading one?

May i suggest John Pilger as a staring point.

 

[DT Withdean]

It is not an us versus muslims thing at all.

The vast majority of muslims in this country and overseas, have no problem with 'us', or us with 'them'. Someones religion does not define them.

But the terrorists want to kill anyone that disagrees with them e.g. why are fundamentists killing fellow muslims repeatedly in Pakistan? And other innocents too, like Robert Eaton.

They only have to get lucky once, to coin the IRA expression.

So, the response is to fight, moniter, track them. Understandable I feel.

Why should dialogue with Al Qaeda be sought, when they don't even have the non-coerced mandate of a full population of a country or even a region.

 

[dingodan]

From the BBC Documentary, The Power of Nightmares, by Adam Curtis.

The full program is available here:

In the past, politicians promised to create a better world. They had different ways of achieving this. But their power and authority came from the optimistic visions they offered to their people. Those dreams failed. And today, people have lost faith in ideologies. Increasingly, politicians are seen simply as managers of public life. But now, they have discovered a new role that restores their power and authority. Instead of delivering dreams, politicians now promise to protect us from nightmares. They say that they will rescue us from dreadful dangers that we cannot see and do not understand. And the greatest danger of all is international terrorism. A powerful and sinister network, with sleeper cells in countries across the world. A threat that needs to be fought by a war on terror. But much of this threat is a fantasy, which has been exaggerated and distorted by politicians. It’s a dark illusion that has spread unquestioned through governments around the world, the security services, and the international media.

This is a series of films about how and why that fantasy was created, and who it benefits. At the heart of the story are two groups: the American neoconservatives, and the radical Islamists. Both were idealists who were born out of the failure of the liberal dream to build a better world. And both had a very similar explanation for what caused that failure. These two groups have changed the world, but not in the way that either intended. Together, they created today’s nightmare vision of a secret, organized evil that threatens the world. A fantasy that politicians then found restored their power and authority in a disillusioned age. And those with the darkest fears became the most powerful.

 

[DT Withdean]

Great that we can have this debate with wildly varying views.
That's the wonderful thing about democracies.
On the other hand, giving a pro-Western view in an islamic fundamentalist region, generally leads to the end of one's life.

 

[BadFish]

Great that we can have this debate with wildly varying views.
That's the wonderful thing about democracies.
On the other hand, giving a pro-Western view in an islamic fundamentalist region, generally leads to the end of one's life.

Maybe we should ask Robyn Cook about that one!

 

[DT Withdean]

Maybe we should ask Robyn Cook about that one!

Or Robert Eaton.