Our troops homecoming

[BadFish]

Or Robert Eaton.

Or 100,000 Iraqi Civilians that we don't know the names of.

 

[Northstandite]

Viney.
If things are so bad, why do you continue to enjoy life here in the capitalist and undemocratic West?

Perhaps a bunch of fundamentalists tried to kill a lot of innocents in London and New York. Perhaps a conspiracy theory is ficticious.

 

[DT Withdean]

Or 100,000 Iraqi Civilians that we don't know the names of.

And your views (at the time) and your action taken on Saddam killing 100,000's of Iraqis and Iranians in the 1980's and 1990's.
Not indifference and no interest by any chance?
Just came alive when evil West took action.

 

[BadFish]

Viney.
If things are so bad, why do you continue to enjoy life here in the capitalist and undemocratic West?

Perhaps a bunch of fundamentalists tried to kill a lot of innocents in London and New York. Perhaps a conspiracy theory is ficticious.

I am allowed to disagree with the actions of my government. I am also allowed to empathise with innocent people being killed around the world. Why would I leave? I dont' really consider my views on here can be described as conspiracy theories, there are some, but they are not mine.

 

[DT Withdean]

I am allowed to disagree with the actions of my government. I am also allowed to empathise with innocent people being killed around the world. Why would I leave? I dont' really consider my views on here can be described as conspiracy theories, there are some, but they are not mine.

And your views at the time and action taken on:
Serbs murdering, Hutus murdering, Saddam murdering, Taliban murdering?

Seems to me the UN and West/Russia/China spent too long not intervening on genocide. Read up on Ruwanda. Shocking.

 

[dingodan]

And your views (at the time) and your action taken on Saddam killing 100,000's of Iraqis and Iranians in the 1980's and 1990's.
Not indifference and no interest by any chance?
Just came alive when evil West took action.

Saddam Hussien was only able to kill the 100,000's of Iraqis and Iranians in the 1980's and 1990's because the West sold him the weapons and the gas to do it.

 

[BadFish]

And your views (at the time) and your action taken on Saddam killing 100,000's of Iraqis and Iranians in the 1980's and 1990's.
Not indifference and no interest by any chance?
Just came alive when evil West took action.

But the Iraq/Iran war was bank rolled by the US. I was too young to really understand or have an opinion I am afraid. But yes it is fair to say that my interest in these situations has increased since I began to understand just how much involvement the US government and economy have.

 

[BadFish]

And your views at the time and action taken on:
Serbs murdering, Hutus murdering, Saddam murdering, Taliban murdering?

Seems to me the UN and West/Russia/China spent too long not intervening on genocide. Read up on Ruwanda. Shocking.

Very good point and one worth considering. So what makes the west etc choose one conflict over another?

 

[brunswick]

My son and his mates from 47 Royal Artillery ( based at Thorney island) are marching through Chichester on July 5th as part of there return from Afghan.

Ive no idea what time it will be but I will certainly be there !!

Why will they march thro Chichester? is Chi a safer place now? Is he proud of what he did (use violent force in another country that has done no harm to the UK). Or is he again, just following orders to march?

Why march? To show how controlled they can be? How "uniform" they all are? To show how they have renounced all "independent thought."

You go and clap and cheer at people using violence against others and enjoy your day.

How anyone can support what this country is doing in afghanistan is beyond me, and this support is based in IGNORANCE and NATIONALISM.

 

[Samej]

Why will they march thro Chichester? is Chi a safer place now? Is he proud of what he did (use violent force in another country that has done no harm to the UK). Or is he again, just following orders to march?

Why march? To show how controlled they can be? How "uniform" they all are? To show how they have renounced all "independent thought."

You go and clap and cheer at people using violence against others and enjoy your day.

How anyone can support what this country is doing in afghanistan is beyond me, and this support is based in IGNORANCE and NATIONALISM.

What is wrong with Nationalism

 

[brunswick]

What is wrong with Nationalism

exactly the sort of post i was expecting......it conditions loyalty and hatred belief systems.

most of the worlds problems in the 18th - 20th century were caused by Nationalism.

read G.Orwell's take on it here and you might learn something.

 

[Samej]

exactly the sort of post i was expecting......it conditions loyalty and hatred belief systems.

most of the worlds problems in the 18th - 20th century were caused by Nationalism.

read G.Orwell's take on it here and you might learn something.

You must understand dear man that others are also entitled to have opinions and ideas that differ from your own

 

[brunswick]

You must understand dear man that others are also entitled to have opinions and ideas that differ from your own

agreed, but do not get mixed up with subjectivity and objectivity...........The world and species would be better off without nationalism and ignorance.....this is not subjective, but objective truth.

e.g. BHA's new kit - do you like it? this would be subjective and opinions will and should flourish.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Why will they march thro Chichester? is Chi a safer place now? Is he proud of what he did (use violent force in another country that has done no harm to the UK). Or is he again, just following orders to march?

Why march? To show how controlled they can be? How "uniform" they all are? To show how they have renounced all "independent thought."

You go and clap and cheer at people using violence against others and enjoy your day.

How anyone can support what this country is doing in afghanistan is beyond me, and this support is based in IGNORANCE and NATIONALISM.

IMHO you don't necessarily need to agree with what this country is doing in Afghanistan to be able to show respect to these brave individuals. OK, they are soldiers, they signed up in the expectation of having to go and fight and in all probabability kill people. But they are also there to protect people. They're still the good guys so far as I'm concerned. Soldiers have no say over where the politicians send them, they can only do the job they are trained for. Programmes like the magnificent 'Our War' show the kind of horrors they have to deal with on a daily basis. Total respect to them for for that. Its the politicians who deserve our scorn.

 

[brunswick]

IMHO you don't necessarily need to agree with what this country is doing in Afghanistan to be able to show respect to these brave individuals. OK, they are soldiers, they signed up in the expectation of having to go and fight and in all probabability kill people. But they are also there to protect people. They're still the good guys so far as I'm concerned. Soldiers have no say over where the politicians send them, they can only do the job they are trained for. Programmes like the magnificent 'Our War' show the kind of horrors they have to deal with on a daily basis. Total respect to them for for that. Its the politicians who deserve our scorn.

The real bravery is within the soldiers that speak out or refuse to follow such elitist and absurd orders (see video on earlier page....that is real courage).

Many sign up (USA especially) due to lack of other options, family issues, learning issues, local environment issues.

Yes, they are good guys at heart, but their independence (heart and soul etc) has been battered out of them.....it can only be this way for one to invade a country that has done no ill.

I empathise with them, but clap them in the street as they march by....completely over the top and inappropriate.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

I empathise with them, but clap them in the street as they march by....completely over the top and inappropriate.

I wouldn't agree its over the top. There's no jingoism involved. It's just ordinary people showing respect to some very brave individuals. Just the same as the good people of Wooton Bassett always turn out in large numbers to line the streets to show respect when the body of a soldier is repatriated. Nobody's told them to do that. It's instinctive and heartfelt and a million miles removed from the politicians.

 

[brunswick]

I wouldn't agree its over the top. There's no jingoism involved. It's just ordinary people showing respect to some very brave individuals. Just the same as the good people of Wooton Bassett always turn out in large numbers to line the streets to show respect when the body of a soldier is repatriated. It's instinctive and heartfelt.

It is objective truth that it is not "instinctive" or "heartfelt"....for the simple reason that:

If a dead Afghan civilian family was marched thro the streets, the "good" and "ordinary" (both subjective) people of WB would not be on the streets showing respect.

Again, we are back to Nationalism and Ignorance as the causes of this.

 

[xenophon]

brunswick - is that where you live? If so, did you exercise your democratically sanctioned right to protest over the presence of soldiers in your area? Or are you just a gobshite behind the anonymity of the internet? A say something/do nothing?

Enquiring minds want to know

 

[brunswick]

brunswick - is that where you live? If so, did you exercise your democratically sanctioned right to protest over the presence of soldiers in your area? Or are you just a gobshite behind the anonymity of the internet? A say something/do nothing?

Enquiring minds want to know

Why do you wish to know where and how i live? This is something i share with friends and close associates, certainly not someone who is ill with words.

But I have done much to champion my thoughts in many matters, years of hard work, and I have not ego nor pride enough to share with you what these actions and manifestations are. I rest easy in this. This is a football forum and i am here as a lover of the albion, but at times some posts on here are so far into group think from the media that i feel compelled to reply.


Also, i do not see democracy in England, the last time true democracy existed was in ancient Athens, so I certainly do not use the UK "system" to voice opinion or canvas any action.

To write me off as a teenage internet loudmouth, is again (see my previous posts in this thread), a defence mechanism.

 

[xenophon]

Saddam Hussien was only able to kill the 100,000's of Iraqis and Iranians in the 1980's and 1990's because the West sold him the weapons and the gas to do it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIPRI_...or_conventional_arms_sales_to_Iraq_by_country

The table shows the majority of conventional arms imported by Iraq during the 1970s, when the regime was building up the armies which were to attack Iran in 1980, were supplied by the Soviet Union and its satellites, principally Czechoslovakia. The only substantial Western arms supplier to Iraq was France, which continued to be a major supplier until 1990, when Iraq invaded Kuwait and all legal arms transfers to Iraq ended.

The United States did not supply any arms to Iraq until 1982, when Iran's growing military success alarmed American policymakers. It then did so every year until 1988. These sales amounted to less than 1% of the total arms sold to Iraq in the relevant period.