[Albion] Our Roberto.........

[dwayne]

For the same reasons highly proven managers came and went at Manchester United, Arsenal and so forth: a poorly built team where the boards only were aware of one solution to problems - sacking the manager, with no or little positive effect. First when they started to see problems in a different light, they found out that the solutions was actually not to change manager a couple of times a year, but to actually put some thought into recruitment rather than just randomly assembling a squad with expensive players. This is the reason Potter isn't achieving as much with Chelsea as he did with Brighton. Another factor is obviously that it takes time to get your team to play the way you want it.

GP did better with this Brighton side than RDZ has. GPs final 11 league games in charge of the team: 7 wins, 2 draws, 1 loss. RDZs first 11: 4 wins, 2 draws, 5 losses. If were going to play the game of "why isn't a new manager immediately getting the same or better results than his predecessor", it should go both ways. Why isn't De Zerbi achieving much with his current squad of players who are supposedly as good as the identical squad he arrived to in September?

You can't compare the teams potter played Vs the ones de zerbi has. The only slightly hard game potter had with us this season was Newcastle who weren't really in their stride. Man u were a mess. De zerbi had a ridiculously hard start.

Potter has regressed Chelsea since hes joined them.

Potter just doesn't have the big manager personality. He's too introverted. He doesn't have the character to win over big players or fans. De zerbi will go on to bigger and better than your boy potty.

 

[phoenix]

For the same reasons highly proven managers came and went at Manchester United, Arsenal and so forth: a poorly built team where the boards only were aware of one solution to problems - sacking the manager, with no or little positive effect. First when they started to see problems in a different light, they found out that the solutions was actually not to change manager a couple of times a year, but to actually put some thought into recruitment rather than just randomly assembling a squad with expensive players. This is the reason Potter isn't achieving as much with Chelsea as he did with Brighton. Another factor is obviously that it takes time to get your team to play the way you want it.

GP did better with this Brighton side than RDZ has. GPs final 11 league games in charge of the team: 7 wins, 2 draws, 1 loss. RDZs first 11: 4 wins, 2 draws, 5 losses. If were going to play the game of "why isn't a new manager immediately getting the same or better results than his predecessor", it should go both ways. Why isn't De Zerbi achieving much with his current squad of players who are supposedly as good as the identical squad he arrived to in September?

I Think a look at the fixture list when RDZ arrived is the clue here.
Except for Potters Chelsea there were some quite tough games.

 

[Eric Youngs Contact Lens]

still not sure why we are so worried about comparing RDZ to GP.. GP played some of the best football I have seen this club play. He developed a style and an ethos that made us one of the more attractive teams in the league, getting plaudits from far and wide. The beginning of this season was special.. stylish wins at Old Trafford, West Ham and thumping win vs. Leicester were superb results and performances. Him leaving was a real concern for many of us (Most of us!) with the unknown of a new manager, new ideas etc. RDZ has managed that really well - great performances backed up with some incredible results , but one or two indifferent ones too. I am pleased to have enjoyed GP and pleased to enjoy RDZ and the excitement he has built amongst us.

 

[Swansman]

You can't compare the teams potter played Vs the ones de zerbi has. The only slightly hard game potter had with us this season was Newcastle who weren't really in their stride. Man u were a mess. De zerbi had a ridiculously hard start.

Potter has regressed Chelsea since hes joined them.

Potter just doesn't have the big manager personality. He's too introverted. He doesn't have the character to win over big players or fans. De zerbi will go on to bigger and better than your boy potty.

I Think a look at the fixture list when RDZ arrived is the clue here.

If nuanced views like "look at the opposition" is a factor re: De Zerbi, then it only makes sense if that is the case re; Potter in Chelsea as well. If we in a discussion like this can ignore that Potter has been working with an injury-riddled aging squad full of saturated, poorly trained (they don't last for more than 60 minutes, which was also the case in Tuchels final six months) players, then surely we can also ignore the level of opposition. Ignoring the circumstances in one case while using circumstances as an excuse in the other case makes any discussion unreasonable aside for pushing whatever narrative that's on your or my mind.

I do understand the desire to all of a sudden pretend that GP had Brighton play some kind of defensive catenaccio football that prevented Maupay & co to reach that top 4 position they truly were capable etc and that he is now preventing Loftus-Cheek, Mount and other lazy merceneries of Chelsea to reach their entitled 4th place but reality just isn't that simple.

 

[dwayne]

If nuanced views like "look at the opposition" is a factor re: De Zerbi, then it only makes sense if that is the case re; Potter in Chelsea as well. If we in a discussion like this can ignore that Potter has been working with an injury-riddled aging squad full of saturated, poorly trained (they don't last for more than 60 minutes, which was also the case in Tuchels final six months) players, then surely we can also ignore the level of opposition. Ignoring the circumstances in one case while using circumstances as an excuse in the other case makes any discussion unreasonable aside for pushing whatever narrative that's on your or my mind.

I do understand the desire to all of a sudden pretend that GP had Brighton play some kind of defensive catenaccio football that prevented Maupay & co to reach that top 4 position they truly were capable etc and that he is now preventing Loftus-Cheek, Mount and other lazy merceneries of Chelsea to reach their entitled 4th place but reality just isn't that simple.

Ermmm that ageing useless Chelsea team finished 3rd last season and lost 6 games ALL season right ?

Season before they won the champions League ffs !!!

Think you might be the one rewriting history here sonny. Tuchel is a much more established manager than potter. Potter has a long way to go before hes on that level which I suspect he will never reach.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Ermmm that ageing useless Chelsea team finished 3rd last season and lost 6 games ALL season right ?

Season before they won the champions League ffs !!!

Think you might be the one rewriting history here sonny. Tuchel is a much more established manager than potter. Potter has a long way to go before hes on that level which I suspect he will never reach.

The guy has been in charge for just 10 league games. He's P10 W5 D2 L3 pts 17. Tuchel's last 10 games were P10 W4 D3 L3 pts 15. I'm not sure where this idea of Chelsea regressing has come from, all that has happened is they've continued in a similar vein they started 2022. I'd suggest the issue for them doesn't lie with Tuchel or Potter, but what has been happening behind the scenes.

 

[227 BHA]

GP did better with this Brighton side than RDZ has. GPs final 11 league games in charge of the team: 7 wins, 2 draws, 1 loss. RDZs first 11: 4 wins, 2 draws, 5 losses. If were going to play the game of "why isn't a new manager immediately getting the same or better results than his predecessor", it should go both ways. Why isn't De Zerbi achieving much with his current squad of players who are supposedly as good as the identical squad he arrived to in September?

Nice stats, but? GP final 11 games - 7w, 2d, 1L - how does that add up to 11?

 

[A1X]

De Zerbi makes football fun. For all that Potterball was pretty to watch, there were times when it wasn't in any way "fun". Now even when we lose we're entertaining, NYE alone proves that. The only game I think we've been genuinely rubbish under RdZ was the Villa game, and I'm prepared to give that an asterisk as the last game before the World Cup and half of both teams already checking their bags in.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Nice stats, but? GP final 11 games - 7w, 2d, 1L - how does that add up to 11?

GP's final 11 games was: W7 D3 L1 pts 24

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

It's the adjustment a fair few of us wanted to see, but were repeatedly told we were wrong because it wasn't possible.

Many an owner and CEO would have appointed a manager who wanted to put his mark on his team.
RdZ seems to have said 'well this is great, but now let's do it quicker'.

Yep.

And for those of us who have watched most of Chelsea's games lately. it will be apparent they now play like we used to play. Nice, very nice at times, but generally too slow for too much of the time, and dropping points they should 'of' won.

BTW, Statbro, The 'Potterwars' were between those who relentlessly wanted him out from the off, and some of us who thought that was nonsense. Potter took us further than we had ever been but . . . . yes, but. But is very different from 'he is the best manager of all time and nobody is allowed a moment of negativity'. Only one poster appeared to have this view (mind you he did do 1000 posts on the topic). Most of us had much the same view as your lovely self

The one thing that worries me is that soon we will be 'found out' by our opponents. I am not sure what 'found out' will look like. Arsenal sat back and did us on the break. Maybe that's it. Maybe we need to learn more patience? Or less patience? I don't know which.

 

[Simster]

If nuanced views like "look at the opposition" is a factor re: De Zerbi, then it only makes sense if that is the case re; Potter in Chelsea as well. If we in a discussion like this can ignore that Potter has been working with an injury-riddled aging squad full of saturated, poorly trained (they don't last for more than 60 minutes, which was also the case in Tuchels final six months) players, then surely we can also ignore the level of opposition. Ignoring the circumstances in one case while using circumstances as an excuse in the other case makes any discussion unreasonable aside for pushing whatever narrative that's on your or my mind.

I do understand the desire to all of a sudden pretend that GP had Brighton play some kind of defensive catenaccio football that prevented Maupay & co to reach that top 4 position they truly were capable etc and that he is now preventing Loftus-Cheek, Mount and other lazy merceneries of Chelsea to reach their entitled 4th place but reality just isn't that simple.

You make some good points - the re-writing of our history is annoying, and not all of Chelsea's issues lie at his door.

But let's be clear - under RDZ, we score goals from all over the pitch and look like scoring every time we attack in some games. The flip side is that we've only had one clean sheet, which reading between the lines is why he seemed oddly pissed off in his post match interviews.

On balance, RDZ is a MUCH better watch. He's also hit the ground running, whereas that is not the case with Potter. Life under Potter was always easy on the eye but often incredibly frustrating as we took teams apart without actually scoring. So much so that there was one calendar year where we only won 2 or maybe 3 times. The October of that year, there was a stat that Palace had won as many league games at the Amex in that calendar year to date as we had.

I'm happy not to compare GP to RDZ beyond that. In 12 months from now, we'll get a clearer picture of both men's respective legacies. Mind you, I'll continue to absolutely lap up the whole Chelsea thing if that's alright with you? He's definitely part of the problem there and in a year we might see if he's managed to sort it out.

 

[Bold Seagull]

De Zerbi makes football fun. For all that Potterball was pretty to watch, there were times when it wasn't in any way "fun". Now even when we lose we're entertaining, NYE alone proves that. The only game I think we've been genuinely rubbish under RdZ was the Villa game, and I'm prepared to give that an asterisk as the last game before the World Cup and half of both teams already checking their bags in.

It is pinch your arm stuff really that we got £20m in compensation and get straight in a free agent manager who looks every bit as good if not better.

The comparison with our situation though is like Le Mans, GP did a stint that got us to the front of the race, and he's now swapped with RDZ who is driving the car equally well, and possibly getting a bit more out of it. It's been a transition though, we cannot at all rubbish where GP got us because RDZ needed that for where he is taking us.

Is TB sat in an oversized leather armchair with a signet octopus ring stroking a white furry cat looking like a man who has planned everything all along!?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

It's the adjustment a fair few of us wanted to see, but were repeatedly told we were wrong because it wasn't possible.

Many an owner and CEO would have appointed a manager who wanted to put his mark on his team.
RdZ seems to have said 'well this is great, but now let's do it quicker'.

Perhaps it wasn't possible under Potter because Potter coached them to play the way he coached them to play.

It is possible, however, if you coach the team to play a different way. But part of that is the whole way you manage. Everything has to change, including attitude. Roberto is a passionate man. Can you imagine Potter with his back to he pitch, screaming at his subs to 'f***ing focus' on the match?

There is a line from Bottom where Rik Mayall says "I wish, I just wish....that everything could be completely different". Everything (apart from the squad - for now) is completely different.

 

[dwayne]

Perhaps it wasn't possible under Potter because Potter coached them to play the way he coached them to play.

It is possible, however, if you coach the team to play a different way. But part of that is the whole way you manage. Everything has to change, including attitude. Roberto is a passionate man. Can you imagine Potter with his back to he pitch, screaming at his subs to 'f***ing focus' on the match?

There is a line from Bottom where Rik Mayall says "I wish, I just wish....that everything could be completely different". Everything (apart from the squad - for now) is completely different.

Interesting insight into rdz there. Which match was he screaming at bench ?

 

[Bold Seagull]

You make some good points - the re-writing of our history is annoying, and not all of Chelsea's issues lie at his door.

But let's be clear - under RDZ, we score goals from all over the pitch and look like scoring every time we attack in some games. The flip side is that we've only had one clean sheet, which reading between the lines is why he seemed oddly pissed off in his post match interviews.

On balance, RDZ is a MUCH better watch. He's also hit the ground running, whereas that is not the case with Potter. Life under Potter was always easy on the eye but often incredibly frustrating as we took teams apart without actually scoring. So much so that there was one calendar year where we only won 2 or maybe 3 times. The October of that year, there was a stat that Palace had won as many league games at the Amex in that calendar year to date as we had.

I'm happy not to compare GP to RDZ beyond that. In 12 months from now, we'll get a clearer picture of both men's respective legacies. Mind you, I'll continue to absolutely lap up the whole Chelsea thing if that's alright with you? He's definitely part of the problem there and in a year we might see if he's managed to sort it out.

To just back up @Swansman stats a bit. Under RDZ's 11 games:
P11 W4 D2 L5 GF 19 GA 20 gd -1 pts 14

Potter's last 11 games:
P11 W7 D3 L1 GF 22 GA 7 gd +15 pts 23

Given the transition of a new manager, some difficult fixtures with injuries and all the departures etc. RDZ has done incredibly well. However, I think we were already transforming into a higher scoring faster team under Potter, and we were starting to see a far more confident BHA in all areas of the pitch.

Absolutely RDZ has turned that up a notch, but it's definitely been a progression from finally getting all the pieces of the jigsaw in place. I don't think anyone should or is undermining the work GP did to enable what RDZ is doing.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Interesting insight into rdz there. Which match was he screaming at bench ?

It was mentioned on NSC somewhere, with pictures, and an ear-witness report. I can't remember which game.

 

[SIMMO SAYS]

The fake swede desperate to be proved right again - Happy New Year

 

[phoenix]

Whilst we are at it its an avoidable situation we don't really have a decent back up goal keeper . Imho Ryan had no one pushing him for a place and neither does Robert Sanchez hence the shit performances,They are both good goal keepers but are far too comfortable knowing there is no one to step in and claim the shirt, so to speak. Potter takes a lot of responsibility for this.

I'm not Potter bashing just reflecting on things that could have been done differently.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Whilst we are at it its an avoidable situation we don't really have a decent back up goal keeper . Imho Ryan had no one pushing him for a place and neither does Robert Sanchez hence the shit performances,They are both good goal keepers but are far too comfortable knowing there is no one to step in and claim the shirt, so to speak. Potter takes a lot of responsibility for this.

I'm not Potter bashing just reflecting on things that could have been done differently.

I think you might be on the wrong Roberto thread...

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

It was mentioned on NSC somewhere, with pictures, and an ear-witness report. I can't remember which game.

This post is worthless without sound