[Albion] Our Roberto.........

[LamieRobertson]

From CH to GP to RDZ seems to be a good order of events ….hoping I feel the same come end of the season…in the meantime ..enjoy!

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

Don't kid yourself. You're no more even in your judgement than anyone else. You can't say "With equal squads = equal results" because you don't actually know. They have had different opponents and undoubtedly make different decisions over how and who to play.

As I say, give it a year or so. It's easy to crow about RDZ after a thumping 4 goal win at Everton that ticked almost every box. Potter had days like that too.

To be fair, I distinctly remember Swansman arguing (quite rightly) that the manager generally makes little to no difference to a team's results, when Potter was here.
Admittedly that was probably after we'd lost 0-1 in a game where we'd had about 30 clear chances and missed two penalties.

 

[Commander]

My view is simply that we wouldn't be enjoying RDZ were it not for the fruits of GP's labour. It IS possible to be both annoyed at the manner of his departure, but also incredibly grateful for the work he did in stabilising us as a PL club and creating the conditions for a manager like RDZ to be interested in joining us in the first place.

Indeed. But you know that's not how football fans work.

 

[Giraffe]

First potential for De Zerbi poaching will be in the summer when Spurs will be looking. Who is to say we don't finish the season higher than them though?

 

[Swansman]

To be fair, I distinctly remember Swansman arguing (quite rightly) that the manager generally makes little to no difference to a team's results, when Potter was here.
Admittedly that was probably after we'd lost 0-1 in a game where we'd had about 30 clear chances and missed two penalties.

Yeah, always been my stance and I'll stick with it. But I've realised that it will never be seen that way. I just take it as cultural difference. Highly hierarchical England = the bosses decides who wins or lose. Hierarchy-frowning Sweden = football is a team game and the 22 blokes on the pitch has a bit of a say in the outcomes.

 

[dazzer6666]

Regardless of results what is abundantly clear to me is that RDZ has far more emotional intelligence than Potter ever will. Everything he says is designed to get players and the club believing more, pushing harder, and aiming higher. His interview last night was super impressive. We had just won 4-1 and he said he wasnt happy and there was loads more to improve on. He is honest and transparent to the media and talks to connect fan and team. Potter was just a walking interview cliche who always gave out the message that we were punching above our weight. These is zero doubt in my mind who is the best man manager.

Difference for me is that Potter’s EI is ‘learned’ through hard work and education (and as a result, always comes across as a bit forced/calculated and always under control), whereas DeZ‘s is far more natural, hence things like screaming at the bench, running on the pitch when we score etc etc. There are good and bad aspects to both. Both seem to be excellent man managers.

 

[Simster]

Oh yeah, that part of the revisionism - "GP didn't start young players". But he did.

In the game before the Everton one mentioned - against Chelsea - Steven Alzate started his 11th game out of 20 possible and Aaron Connolly came on for 45 minutes (his 14th appearance of the season). Perhaps RDZ would have started those two against Everton and that 1-0 loss would have been a 4-1 win but there's not a lot suggesting this would be the case.

I agree. It's not fair to suggest otherwise.

As I said on another thread last night, GP blooded all manner of players when necessary and sometimes they were a very bold move. Ryan, Maupay, Connolly and one or two others were dropped in favour of giving others a chance.

 

[MattBackHome]

RDZ is the best manager we've ever had, simples, and he will remain so until such time as he's replaced by Marcelo Gallardo.

 

[Swansman]

I agree. It's not fair to suggest otherwise.

As I said on another thread last night, GP blooded all manner of players when necessary and sometimes they were a very bold move. Ryan, Maupay, Connolly and one or two others were dropped in favour of giving others a chance.

Yup. And very good that RDZ is continuing to use the academy. Would have been a big step backwards (regardless of style and results etc.) if the GP-replacement was a manager who'd either just trust the senior players or buy quality rather than develop it.

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

Difference for me is that Potter’s EI is ‘learned’ through hard work and education (and as a result, always comes across as a bit forced/calculated and always under control), whereas DeZ‘s is far more natural, hence things like screaming at the bench, running on the pitch when we score etc etc. There are good and bad aspects to both. Both seem to be excellent man managers.

I'd think that Potter's masters in Emotional Intelligence (or whatever that course was actually called) should be viewed as an academic qualification rather than having much to do with making him more emotionally intelligent. You certainly wouldn't want to employ a doctor or engineer on the basis that they have a relevant degree.
I think De Zerbi's just a more heart on sleeve kind of a guy, which works with some people some of the time while being more reserved is better in other situations.

 

[The Fits]

I suppose that depends what you mean by taken apart, we have conceded 4 against Arsenal (fine, they're really good) and 3 against Liverpool (who let's face it, aren't).

Yup. We are going to concede a lot of goals against the better teams. RDZ is obviously a tactical obsessive but his primary concern appears to be score more than the opposition and that will simply mean some absolute tonkings. Be interesting to see how that sits with our quite reactive support.

 

[Not Andy Naylor]

I agree. It's not fair to suggest otherwise.

As I said on another thread last night, GP blooded all manner of players when necessary and sometimes they were a very bold move. Ryan, Maupay, Connolly and one or two others were dropped in favour of giving others a chance.

My original point, perhaps clumsily expressed, was not that GP didn't give young players a chance, but that RDZ is putting them in in bunches.

 

[erkan]

Yeah, always been my stance and I'll stick with it. But I've realised that it will never be seen that way. I just take it as cultural difference. Highly hierarchical England = the bosses decides who wins or lose. Hierarchy-frowning Sweden = football is a team game and the 22 blokes on the pitch has a bit of a say in the outcomes.

Very interesting and complex question to debate. As usual it isn't decided one way or the other absolutely.

In cricket, the rise of the "Head Coach" as an influencer of team performance outcomes was resisted for longer than in football (notably by successful hierarchy-frowning Australian teams who put the emphasis on the 11 blokes in the team being good at playing cricket....).

My own view is that having a really good head coach is very important in sport.
Having a bad head coach definitely holds back a group of players and a club. And it is amazing how many bad head coaches still get appointed by professional clubs.
Coaches don't make anything like as much difference as players though. Caicedo for Stephens and Webster/Colwill for Duffy matters a lot more. Once the threshold of being "a really good head coach" is reached then it becomes about the players.
Oscar Garcia, Graham Potter, RDZ or Ralph Hassenhutl could coach this Brighton team for the next season and a half with very similar results.

None of the above means that I don't love RDZ and won't choose to think about him as being special and brilliant (in the same way that all other fans at clubs with successful and well-liked managers feel...).

 

[Horses Arse]

For the same reasons highly proven managers came and went at Manchester United, Arsenal and so forth: a poorly built team where the boards only were aware of one solution to problems - sacking the manager, with no or little positive effect. First when they started to see problems in a different light, they found out that the solutions was actually not to change manager a couple of times a year, but to actually put some thought into recruitment rather than just randomly assembling a squad with expensive players. This is the reason Potter isn't achieving as much with Chelsea as he did with Brighton. Another factor is obviously that it takes time to get your team to play the way you want it.

GP did better with this Brighton side than RDZ has. GPs final 11 league games in charge of the team: 7 wins, 2 draws, 1 loss. RDZs first 11: 4 wins, 2 draws, 5 losses. If were going to play the game of "why isn't a new manager immediately getting the same or better results than his predecessor", it should go both ways. Why isn't De Zerbi achieving much with his current squad of players who are supposedly as good as the identical squad he arrived to in September?

Potter had a great period at the end (i.e. end of last season and beginning of this) and cashed in on it. Whilst he did fantastically well for Brighton and developed our players and style, he did fantastically well out of Brighton too. Many clubs would not have put up with the results we had to suffer not the thin skinned barbs.

RDZ is most definitely an upgrade - I'm really surprised at that but it is undeniable, we have shown a big step up in performance since GP's departure. £22m given to us so that we can upgrade, unbelievable!

 

[Badger Boy]

I have always thought that Potter was working at par with the squad he was provided. I think the squad we've built is excellent over a number of transfer windows and the progression planning has been excellent, since Ashworth came in. There are a few gaps in the squad and areas where we need more depth but generally speaking I think all the tools were provided to Potter and he did fine with them. I think De Zerbi, so far, is showing that he is able to get more from the same group and is implementing a much sharper and attacking style of football which is getting results and goals. I think it's been an excellent start, even considering the real disappointment of the Charlton game.

 

[erkan]

Yeah, always been my stance and I'll stick with it. But I've realised that it will never be seen that way. I just take it as cultural difference. Highly hierarchical England = the bosses decides who wins or lose. Hierarchy-frowning Sweden = football is a team game and the 22 blokes on the pitch has a bit of a say in the outcomes.

Am I correct in thinking that Potter was well supported in Sweden by his Chairman in terms of player recruitment relative to the level of football?

 

[Swansman]

Am I correct in thinking that Potter was well supported in Sweden by his Chairman in terms of player recruitment relative to the level of football?

In the fourth and third tiers, yes very much so. All the players down in those divisions are amateurs while Östersund had a couple of full professionals + used the "FA Foreign Eductation"-thing to bring over young English players for free.

In the second and top divisions, they operated with very similar resources as other clubs - bit more money from the chairman but less from sponsors and attendance.

 

[Nobby]

Difference for me is that Potter’s EI is ‘learned’ through hard work and education (and as a result, always comes across as a bit forced/calculated and always under control), whereas DeZ‘s is far more natural, hence things like screaming at the bench, running on the pitch when we score etc etc. There are good and bad aspects to both. Both seem to be excellent man managers.

Yes but isn’t that just so much more exciting As a fan

 

[Clive Walker]

Potter had a great period at the end (i.e. end of last season and beginning of this) and cashed in on it. Whilst he did fantastically well for Brighton and developed our players and style, he did fantastically well out of Brighton too. Many clubs would not have put up with the results we had to suffer not the thin skinned barbs.

RDZ is most definitely an upgrade - I'm really surprised at that but it is undeniable, we have shown a big step up in performance since GP's departure. £22m given to us so that we can upgrade, unbelievable!

This is pretty much word for word where I am.

 

[Horses Arse]

Oh yeah, that part of the revisionism - "GP didn't start young players". But he did.

In the game before the Everton one mentioned - against Chelsea - Steven Alzate started his 11th game out of 20 possible and Aaron Connolly came on for 45 minutes (his 14th appearance of the season). Perhaps RDZ would have started those two against Everton and that 1-0 loss would have been a 4-1 win but there's not a lot suggesting this would be the case.

Definitely, Potter gave loads of young players their chance. Such a welcome change from hughton. Far too long with caceido but if he didn't see the need why take the chance I guess, plus he would just be displacing another young player by then.