[Politics] Our next prime minister BBC 1

[Pretty pink fairy]

How are we going to sort out the mess this government has made of this country by voting to make ourselves poorer, definitely in the short term, and probably going on for many years afterwards.
It's your sort that has created this forthcoming debacle because you have the inability to think.

I think you're a very bitter person
regards
DR

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

A democratic and an undemocratic in a 15 word post.
Brexit bingo at its finest.

Pathetic response from another undemocratic loon
regards
DR

 

[Raleigh Chopper]

I think you're a very bitter person
regards
DR

Then you think very wrongly, confirming my assumption that you cannot think, I am not bitter at all, I am finding the whole no deal and Boris Johnson for PM perversely funny and I am able to wind you up and off you go.
You're posts are strange for someone that won.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Then you think very wrongly, confirming my assumption that you cannot think, I am not bitter at all, I am finding the whole no deal and Boris Johnson for PM perversely funny and I am able to wind you up and off you go.
You're posts are strange for someone that won.

Sour grapes all day long from you I'm afraid, will you be laughing when we leave on the 31st October 2019

 

[drew]

A democratic vote is a load of garbage in your eyes ? Typical undemocratic loon talking
regards
DR

You're a joke account, that or you're thick. Everyone on NSC sees you for what you are. You wouldn't know democracy if it hit you right between the eyes!!!!

 

[Surf's Up]

Sour grapes all day long from you I'm afraid, will you be laughing when we leave on the 31st October 2019

No one with half a brain will be laughing if we leave, whenever it is.

 

[clapham_gull]

If you think these allegations of anti semitism in the Labour Party are rubbish thats up to you .Labour have been talked about on this thread by others ,and i don`t see how calling Conservatives Racist by some on this thread is related to the next PM ,and i have noticed the JC thread has come back and i`m not that interested in the inner workings of the Labour Party only that i can not see how you can call your disliked Party racist when you have those issues in your own preferred Party.

You can take a left versus right argument if you like, but it gets nobody anywhere. You are just neighbours arguing who should pay for a shared fence that been blown down.

The reality is both major parties have been taken over by extremes who are guilty of racism.


The Tories are crippled by their right of right faction which led to Cameron calling the referendum. You get an opportunist like Boris (who in reality politically is an Urban liberal who supports freedom of movement) playing to the frothing at mouth no deal **** anyone who isn't English Brexit crowd.

You get Rees Mogg attending dinners organised by the far right, rightly apologising but then later retweeting posts from a far-right German political party and (to this day) continuing to defend it.

Seriously, how on earth is bore in the pub Mark Francois an MP ? If he worked in the City they would be engineering a re-structure as we speak to get him the **** out.

The Labour party is a bit more complex because there is a completely misplaced academic element to it, but anyone who went to University post 2000 will know that factions in the left have become utterly obsessed with Palestine. Obviously not a bad thing (far from it), but it has become oddly fused with David Icke like "World Order" conspiracy theories. Add to that a need for the younger activists to have their own "South Africa", rather than discuss the terrible situation on it's own terms and understand its different unique complex history.

That leads itself to Corbyn "liking" a deeply concerning mural characterising Jewish bankers in way Hitler would have been proud of and MPs retweeting posts than suggest Israel should move to America. It leads to "academic" Labour party members have debates on-line whether "Zio-Nazi" is "correct" terminology.

Shame on both your houses, there is no bright future in any of your ideologies. You are all reverting to the past.

What is the alternative ? My concern is not the alternative, my concern is that both ideologies simply **** right off and we'll decide what to do when you have.

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

Ruth Davidson claims that Johnson winning will threaten the union. Suspect she knows of what she speaks; Johnson doesn't.

 

[highflyer]

i don`t see how calling Conservatives Racist by some on this thread is related to the next PM

Because:

a) The Conservative party IS racist: https://www.politicshome.com/news/u...104777/almost-half-conservative-members-would

and

b) The man who is almost certain to become the PM (for at last 24 hours) clearly doesn't care and has now made it clear that he was (surprise surprise) lying yet again (he really is a duplicious sh*t) when he agreed, live on TV, to an inquiry: https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/t...obia-inquiry-conservative-leadership-contest/

 

[albion68]

You can take a left versus right argument if you like, but it gets nobody anywhere. You are just neighbours arguing who should pay for a shared fence that been blown down.

The reality is both major parties have been taken over by extremes who are guilty of racism.


The Tories are crippled by their right of right faction which led to Cameron calling the referendum. You get an opportunist like Boris (who in reality politically is an Urban liberal who supports freedom of movement) playing to the frothing at mouth no deal **** anyone who isn't English Brexit crowd.

You get Rees Mogg attending dinners organised by the far right, rightly apologising but then later retweeting posts from a far-right German political party and (to this day) continuing to defend it.

Seriously, how on earth is bore in the pub Mark Francois an MP ? If he worked in the City they would be engineering a re-structure as we speak to get him the **** out.

The Labour party is a bit more complex because there is a completely misplaced academic element to it, but anyone who went to University post 2000 will know that factions in the left have become utterly obsessed with Palestine. Obviously not a bad thing (far from it), but it has become oddly fused with David Icke like "World Order" conspiracy theories. Add to that a need for the younger activists to have their own "South Africa", rather than discuss the terrible situation on it's own terms and understand its different unique complex history.

That leads itself to Corbyn "liking" a deeply concerning mural characterising Jewish bankers in way Hitler would have been proud of and MPs retweeting posts than suggest Israel should move to America. It leads to "academic" Labour party members have debates on-line whether "Zio-Nazi" is "correct" terminology.

Shame on both your houses, there is no bright future in any of your ideologies. You are all reverting to the past.

What is the alternative ? My concern is not the alternative, my concern is that both ideologies simply **** right off and we'll decide what to do when you have.

Interesting post how you are explaining the situation with Labour because if you have not got the time or inclination to find the reasons for whats in the news all you know it is this there and not how it got there .I have read books about the Holocaust so this sort of thing does not go down well with me at all . You would be mistaken if you think my views are far right i have voted both Lab and the Con in the past and MP`s should be called out if they have Racist views from both sides ,your right that we now have no center ground any more its not looking good ,might be the time to vote Green Party at least it something worth doing,saving the Planet .

 

[highflyer]

You can take a left versus right argument if you like, but it gets nobody anywhere. You are just neighbours arguing who should pay for a shared fence that been blown down.

The reality is both major parties have been taken over by extremes who are guilty of racism.


The Tories are crippled by their right of right faction which led to Cameron calling the referendum. You get an opportunist like Boris (who in reality politically is an Urban liberal who supports freedom of movement) playing to the frothing at mouth no deal **** anyone who isn't English Brexit crowd.

You get Rees Mogg attending dinners organised by the far right, rightly apologising but then later retweeting posts from a far-right German political party and (to this day) continuing to defend it.

Seriously, how on earth is bore in the pub Mark Francois an MP ? If he worked in the City they would be engineering a re-structure as we speak to get him the **** out.

The Labour party is a bit more complex because there is a completely misplaced academic element to it, but anyone who went to University post 2000 will know that factions in the left have become utterly obsessed with Palestine. Obviously not a bad thing (far from it), but it has become oddly fused with David Icke like "World Order" conspiracy theories. Add to that a need for the younger activists to have their own "South Africa", rather than discuss the terrible situation on it's own terms and understand its different unique complex history.

That leads itself to Corbyn "liking" a deeply concerning mural characterising Jewish bankers in way Hitler would have been proud of and MPs retweeting posts than suggest Israel should move to America. It leads to "academic" Labour party members have debates on-line whether "Zio-Nazi" is "correct" terminology.

Shame on both your houses, there is no bright future in any of your ideologies. You are all reverting to the past.

What is the alternative ? My concern is not the alternative, my concern is that both ideologies simply **** right off and we'll decide what to do when you have.

I think you are correct in the analysis of the anti-semitism in labour. Especially the links with David Icke like "World Order" conspiracy theories.
I do think it is being used as a stick to beat Corbyn, and that it's notable how the right (with similar or worse problems seem to get a pass - I guess on the basis 'we already knew about that'). But that doesn't mean it is not a problem. It's been an education for me. Having been involved in left politics for a long time I was fully aware of the spillover effect of the concerns about Palestine, whereby a (legitimate) concern about the actions of the State of Israel can morph all too easily in some people into appalling ant-semitism. What I was (naively) much less aware of was the way in which this + (again legitimate) concern about the growing power of a small and largely global elite somehow becomes warped into Naziesque conspiracy theories about 'the Jews'. It's been a genuine shock to realise that this type of thinking is accepted by people who purport to be on the left. And still not enough is being done about it.

Where I disagree with you is that they are 'all reverting to the past'

Below the surface (being drowned out by discussions on Brexit and racism) I am seeing an exciting growth of ideas and collaboration (especially between groups in the US and UK) on alternative ideas and policies, based on an understanding of the need to reframe economies around different forms of ownership, the need to be environmentally sustainable and to become more equal. This is not reverting to the past (although there is plenty of learning from the past to be done). And all of these are linked to, and feeding into the thinking of Labour, the Greens, the SNP. I think we are going to see a very different set of ideas dominating the next elections on both sides of the Atlantic, while the right are simply repeating the tired old Randian mantras of 'deregulate and cut taxes'. It could all go horribly wrong, but I remain optimistic that we will see a progressive, post-Trump, post-Boris world that looks nothing like anything we have seen before.

Groups like the IPPR: https://www.ippr.org/ , the Democracy Collective: https://democracycollaborative.org/, Community wealth building: https://cles.org.uk/community-wealth-building/ , The Institute for New Economic Thinking: https://www.ineteconomics.org/ and many many others.

 

[albion68]

Because:

a) The Conservative party IS racist: https://www.politicshome.com/news/u...104777/almost-half-conservative-members-would

and

b) The man who is almost certain to become the PM (for at last 24 hours) clearly doesn't care and has now made it clear that he was (surprise surprise) lying yet again (he really is a duplicious sh*t) when he agreed, live on TV, to an inquiry: https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/t...obia-inquiry-conservative-leadership-contest/

I`m not surprised at the survey results but you don`t know what the results would be on the Labour side better or worse .So how do you change peoples mind sets ,iv`e no idea .I thought Sajid Javid conducted himself very well in that TV debate ,the last two are useless ,when i heard on TV political programme that we can`t keep the all the 39 billion anyway some has got to be paid to the EU anyway i knew Boris was not to be relied on ,and he can`t put his socks on the right way round ,as for JH he has said "little Englander " as he is a Remainer and might have been reading NSC so he is done for , just leaves Boris if he can just sort his socks out the country will be in safe hands .

 

[beorhthelm]

Below the surface (being drowned out by discussions on Brexit and racism) I am seeing an exciting growth of ideas and collaboration (especially between groups in the US and UK) on alternative ideas and policies, based on an understanding of the need to reframe economies around different forms of ownership, the need to be environmentally sustainable and to become more equal. This is not reverting to the past (although there is plenty of learning from the past to be done).

needs more than ideas, there needs to be new philosophy created, possibly a figurehead to drive a model. its interesting we rely largely on 19th thinking for foundations of political thinking, which dont even consider environment and have a polarising view on ownership? we still use these blanket terms of left/right that dont mean what we mean half the time.

 

[Bakero]

Below the surface (being drowned out by discussions on Brexit and racism) I am seeing an exciting growth of ideas and collaboration (especially between groups in the US and UK) on alternative ideas and policies, based on an understanding of the need to reframe economies around different forms of ownership, the need to be environmentally sustainable and to become more equal. This is not reverting to the past (although there is plenty of learning from the past to be done). And all of these are linked to, and feeding into the thinking of Labour, the Greens, the SNP. I think we are going to see a very different set of ideas dominating the next elections on both sides of the Atlantic, while the right are simply repeating the tired old Randian mantras of 'deregulate and cut taxes'. It could all go horribly wrong, but I remain optimistic that we will see a progressive, post-Trump, post-Boris world that looks nothing like anything we have seen before.

Groups like the IPPR: https://www.ippr.org/ , the Democracy Collective: https://democracycollaborative.org/, Community wealth building: https://cles.org.uk/community-wealth-building/ , The Institute for New Economic Thinking: https://www.ineteconomics.org/ and many many others.

Have you read Doughnut Economics?

 

[highflyer]

needs more than ideas, there needs to be new philosophy created, possibly a figurehead to drive a model. its interesting we rely largely on 19th thinking for foundations of political thinking, which dont even consider environment and have a polarising view on ownership? we still use these blanket terms of left/right that dont mean what we mean half the time.

Have a look at some of the links I provided and then look further. There is definitely a lot of thinking new happening on the green/left that is not 19th century and which puts the environment at it's centre (see John McDonnell's views that the IMF/WB are not fit for purpose in light of climate change: https://www.theguardian.com/politic...not-fit-purpose-climate-crisis-john-mcdonnell ) It would be mad not to learn from the past thinkers, from Adam Smith to Marx and from the practical experiences of trying to change things But we are facing challenges different from anything we've expereience before, so we need to think very differently. That's why I think the traditional 'centreground' is fading rapidly. As Rutger Bergman https://www.bloomsbury.com/uk/utopia-for-realists-9781408890264/ says, trying to maintain the status quo should now be viewed as radical and extremist - given the likely consequences of staying on our current pathway.

 

[Mellotron]

No, we sort out the mess by leaving as instructed by the referendum result , get a grip ffs!
Regards
DR

Serious question - how many years would have to pass before you acknowledged that the advisory referendum was no longer a valid example of what the public wants?

We have elections every 5 years minimum, so can't really go beyond that.

Actually answering the question with an amount of time rather than snide comment would be appreciated.

 

[highflyer]

Have you read Doughnut Economics?

I have tracked Kate's work for some time, and I understand the principles she is promoting, but still haven't actually read the whole book!
Is it good?

My sense is that she was working at a fairly high level, providing a critique of the dominant economic models and laying out different ways of thinking and different principles for understanding and 'doing' economics, but what we are seeing more recently is a shift towards development of more practical proposals as the possibility of a genuinely progressive government (most likely an alliance of some form) comes closer.

 

[Bakero]

I have tracked Kate's work for some time, and I understand the principles she is promoting, but still haven't actually read the whole book!
Is it good?

My sense is that she was working at a fairly high level, providing a critique of the dominant economic models and laying out different ways of thinking and different principles for understanding and 'doing' economics, but what we are seeing more recently is a shift towards development of more practical proposals as the possibility of a genuinely progressive government (most likely an alliance of some form) comes closer.

Your sense is correct. Some would call it idealistic and lacking in practical policy details but it's well worth a read; the bit on climate change is particularly good.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

You're a joke account, that or you're thick. Everyone on NSC sees you for what you are. You wouldn't know democracy if it hit you right between the eyes!!!!

Oh well another one who doesn't like a bit of honest talking , 17.4 million will not be let down
regards
DR

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Serious question - how many years would have to pass before you acknowledged that the advisory referendum was no longer a valid example of what the public wants?

We have elections every 5 years minimum, so can't really go beyond that.

Actually answering the question with an amount of time rather than snide comment would be appreciated.

The public voted to leave, I voted to leave to take back control of our borders, law making and sovereignty ,why would I have any complaints , article 50 was approved by Parliament whats the issue
regards
DR