[Politics] Our next prime minister BBC 1

[BLOCK F]

:

To be a Marxist you just have to subscribe to the theory of the material dialectic, which states that human history runs in phases until someone decides to overthrow the previous lot, at which point a new order is established. As a means of looking at social history it's actually not bad (for example the old agricultural serfdom was overthrown by the industrial revolution, whereupon previously poor men became the owners of the means of production).

Wow, I had better look for an evening class this autumn, to get up to speed!

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

To be a Marxist you just have to subscribe to the theory of the material dialectic, which states that human history runs in phases until someone decides to overthrow the previous lot, at which point a new order is established. As a means of looking at social history it's actually not bad (for example the old agricultural serfdom was overthrown by the industrial revolution, whereupon previously poor men became the owners of the means of production).

Indeed. Inspirational. But it is the other stuff that grates. Not necessarily what Marx wrote which, obviously, was a reflection of 19th century reality and our past viewed from then, and was entirely understandable. I mean the sects that sprang from it. Fifty two different Trotskyite sects in the UK in 1977. The dictatorship of the proletariate. The 'no compromise with the electorate'. The end of private ownership. The antisemitism. Some cling to this with a romantic fervour bordering on delusional.

In the 1960s a tory campaigned in the east end with the slogan 'If you want a n***** for a neighbour, vote labour'. Evil. But, crikey, things have changed. And anyone defining themselves as a Marxist these days would need to be a philsopher (polytechnic lecturerer), a voluntary worker, or a member of an agrarian commune (with a large amount of private land, inherited from his father, the 18th Earl of Wimbim, no doubt).

For the rest of us, we live in a mixed economy, with a fair amount of government, a socialist health, school, social service, police and military system (i.e., tax-funded) and what is left of the post-war concensus (dismantled by Thatcher but rebuilt to an extent by Mr Tony). Political extremism of left and right has lost its currency (albeit, ironically, the last hurrahs of extremism still threaten, with Corbyn part of that).

The bigger threat today, however, is different. It is the opposite of doctrinaire, 19th Century philosophical extremism (whether Marxism or the opposite - traditional conservatism where everyone knew - and was kept in - their place). Today it is the doctrine-free maveric; the snake oil salesman with charm and/or charisma, promising populist simplistic doctrine-free solutions to our ills. Boris. Trump. Putin. Berlusconi. Not afraid to deliver on their peculiar promises. Annex Crimea? Sure. Build a wall on the Mexico border? Sure. Brexit? Easy! Appoint tittyarse babes to the cabinet? Fantastica! And later when it all goes to bollocks? Well, they have loads of money and live in mansions and castles, so who cares? Not them.

I digress.....but so do they.

 

[WATFORD zero]

...

 

[BLOCK F]

Indeed. Inspirational. But it is the other stuff that grates. Not necessarily what Marx wrote which, obviously, was a reflection of 19th century reality and our past viewed from then, and was entirely understandable. I mean the sects that sprang from it. Fifty two different Trotskyite sects in the UK in 1977. The dictatorship of the proletariate. The 'no compromise with the electorate'. The end of private ownership. The antisemitism. Some cling to this with a romantic fervour bordering on delusional.

In the 1960s a tory campaigned in the east end with the slogan 'If you want a n***** for a neighbour, vote labour'. Evil. But, crikey, things have changed. And anyone defining themselves as a Marxist these days would need to be a philsopher (polytechnic lecturerer), a voluntary worker, or a member of an agrarian commune (with a large amount of private land, inherited from his father, the 18th Earl of Wimbim, no doubt).

For the rest of us, we live in a mixed economy, with a fair amount of government, a socialist health, school, social service, police and military system (i.e., tax-funded) and what is left of the post-war concensus (dismantled by Thatcher but rebuilt to an extent by Mr Tony). Political extremism of left and right has lost its currency (albeit, ironically, the last hurrahs of extremism still threaten, with Corbyn part of that).

The bigger threat today, however, is different. It is the opposite of doctrinaire, 19th Century philosophical extremism (whether Marxism or the opposite - traditional conservatism where everyone knew - and was kept in - their place). Today it is the doctrine-free maveric; the snake oil salesman with charm and/or charisma, promising populist simplistic doctrine-free solutions to our ills. Boris. Trump. Putin. Berlusconi. Not afraid to deliver on their peculiar promises. Annex Crimea? Sure. Build a wall on the Mexico border? Sure. Brexit? Easy! Appoint tittyarse babes to the cabinet? Fantastica! And later when it all goes to bollocks? Well, they have loads of money and live in mansions and castles, so who cares? Not them.

I digress.....but so do they.

Harry, I think you need/deserve a beer after that lot!
P.S.Referring to my earlier post re requiring an autumn evening class, it is a shame you do not reside in West Sussex!

 

[ManOfSussex]

Hey, Sussex Man,
not all of us bods who couldn't countenance a Corbyn Government voted leave; I voted to remain, and indeed, in the first referendum, when God was a boy, voted to join.
Well, I wonder how long your pissing with laughter would really last if those two did get into power.
I hope we never find out.

They're preferable to that Old Etonian, ex-Bullingdon Clubber buffoon Johnson and watching this country go down the pan, break up and become an international pariah under a no deal - so I'm more than happy to take my chances with those two as there some things more important.

 

[vegster]

Well, I for one wouldn't like to risk it and neither would plenty of other reasonably minded people in this country.

Ha ha !

 

[BLOCK F]

They're preferable to that Old Etonian, ex-Bullingdon Clubber buffoon Johnson and watching this country go down the pan, break up and become an international pariah under a no deal - so I'm more than happy to take my chances with those two as there some things are more important.

Well, I certainly hope that the buffoon doesn't get the vote, that's for sure, but we'll have to agree to disagree on 'those two.'
Not all Etonians are buffoons, thankfully!

 

[vegster]

No truer word said in jest.

You'd best up sticks and run then, that will save you from the Gulag, and, as a bonus, increase the average IQ of the country.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Harry, I think you need/deserve a beer after that lot!
P.S.Referring to my earlier post re requiring an autumn evening class, it is a shame you do not reside in West Sussex!

Funnily enough, its time to crack one open, you smooth-talking bar steward.

 

[BLOCK F]

Funnily enough, its time to crack one open, you smooth-talking bar steward.

Just about to enjoy a glass of vino, over here!

 

[nicko31]

They're preferable to that Old Etonian, ex-Bullingdon Clubber buffoon Johnson and watching this country go down the pan, break up and become an international pariah under a no deal - so I'm more than happy to take my chances with those two as there some things more important.

Think the reality is if Corbyn got in it would probably be in a coalition with the Lib Dems and there would have to be comprimises on policy

I'm no fan of Corbyn but Labour still have plenty of good people and I'd still take it over the destruction of the UK under no deal

 

[Ernest]

The horrifying thought is despite everything that he is saying and doing Mr and Mrs Golf Club Bores and Mr Gammon are going to vote for this idiot

 

[beorhthelm]

Another idiot chirps up. What is a Marxist

someone following the socio-economic philosophy of Marx, to replace capitalism and control the means of production through a workers revolution. and some stuff about materialism.

would you agree they are or are not Marxists?

 

[Ernest]

someone following the socio-economic philosophy of Marx, to replace capitalism and control the means of production through a workers revolution. and some stuff about materialism.

would you agree they are or are not Marxists?

No.

 

[beorhthelm]

No.

odd, McDonnell says otherwise.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

It has occurred to me that the Tories are actually pulling a fast one. They are allowing Boris to act the fool, and act like a coward, so that Hunt will get elected. He will appear so relatively normal, that the nation will breathe a collective sigh of relief and allow Hunt to push through his policies which frankly aren't any better than Johnson's.

It's like the leaks before a budget which are always far worse than the budget itself.

 

[Bodian]

It has occurred to me that the Tories are actually pulling a fast one. They are allowing Boris to act the fool, and act like a coward, so that Hunt will get elected. He will appear so relatively normal, that the nation will breathe a collective sigh of relief and allow Hunt to push through his policies which frankly aren't any better than Johnson's.

It's like the leaks before a budget which are always far worse than the budget itself.

Now then, I've been thinking along not dissimilar lines. Personally, I can't stand the Tories - when Thatcher resigned it was a great relief, but immediately tempered by 'oh dear, that probably means they'll get in again', as with Thatcher in '92 they would have been out. I feel something like that now. Stepping aside from the Brexit fiasco, Hunt will be a 'safer' pair of hands for the Tories - although many, especially the doctors, hate him, he is actually relatively competent - and I think with him as PM things will settle down a bit. Where as with Boris, there could well be such chaos that it could end up destroying the Tories as an electoral force for a while. So, in a way, I think I would prefer Boris (so long as we don't actually end up with 'no deal' - but I think Parliament will see to that).

 

[Raleigh Chopper]

Another idiot chirps up. What is a Marxist

A huge fan of The Marx Brothers?

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

fair share of their contribution, or of the produce? either way, the socialist ideals are there, im not sure why any fans of Mr Corbyn and mr McDonnell would want to deny their political philosophy.

OK my friend, I'll offer you an alternative. How about a society where the top 1% hold 20% of the wealth? Good eh? Well, that's what we've got (and, oh yes, food banks aplenty). Can't we just do a bit better?

 

[albion68]

OK my friend, I'll offer you an alternative. How about a society where the top 1% hold 20% of the wealth? Good eh? Well, that's what we've got (and, oh yes, food banks aplenty). Can't we just do a bit better?

Is this what is known as the politics of envy ? .Food banks have been around from about 2009 i think mainly because of the Bank crisis .and there has always been a lot of homeless in Brighton hard to believe even under Labour .