I think there’s some serious blue tint to people’s glasses. If on paper Brighton’s players are better than Man Utd’s then given the stability and harmony off the pitch at Brighton we must dead certs to finish above Utd this season. I don’t see that happening.
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[Albion] “On paper, the Utd players are better”
- Thread starter Hugo Rune
- Start date
Justice
Dangerous Idiot
Considering we’ve been through the same with GP. It takes a couple of seasons to implement the style the manager wants, we did the same to bigger gaps between midfield and defence, not pressing as team and not pushing up as a unit.
It will come and when it happens they will be better with better players and the ability to sign better players.
It will come and when it happens they will be better with better players and the ability to sign better players.
Exactly (with the exception of the last one).
If he 'wants it' Rashford should be running as far away from OT as fast as humanly possible.
The place is toxic and it's that toxicity which has been blinding some on NSC, across the other 2 long discussions already had on the subject.
Last edited:
crookie
Well-known member
On paper seems to me more applicable to the transfer fee paid, than to how the players actually perform on the pitch. Uniteds almost to a man underperforming. Ours mostly overperforming. They have obviously been rinsed by selling clubs to an extent, but also how they are being coached, managed and set up to play has a massive impact
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I think last season showed that technically speaking, they're better - they had chaos, manager changes, no harmony, yet make their way to 6th... hard to see what it comes down to other than ability; certainly wasn't the team spirit that took them there.
I don't think Dublin's statement, nor the OP, are particularly valid.
Over a season they will do better than us. They'll get results somehow and finish higher in the table. They are still a big club with a big budget able to attract big name players.
However, over 90 minutes against us they'll struggle every single time. That midfield of Fred and McThug is horrendous when it goes head to head with us, we are a better team against their better individuals. We press better and they always inexplicably leave space for Gross even though they must know what he's capable of.
But when, say, Forest come to the Amex and park the bus we'll probably only just manage a draw whereas their better players win that game easily. That's how they accumulate their position over 38 games.
Over a season they will do better than us. They'll get results somehow and finish higher in the table. They are still a big club with a big budget able to attract big name players.
However, over 90 minutes against us they'll struggle every single time. That midfield of Fred and McThug is horrendous when it goes head to head with us, we are a better team against their better individuals. We press better and they always inexplicably leave space for Gross even though they must know what he's capable of.
But when, say, Forest come to the Amex and park the bus we'll probably only just manage a draw whereas their better players win that game easily. That's how they accumulate their position over 38 games.
Yes, good analysis and you get a bonus point for giving Maguire the nod over Dunk when most of NSC would see that very much through blue-tinted spectacles.
However will you stop using the word 'baller', it makes you sound about 12.
Neville's Breakfast
Well-known member
It’s all about opinions and we have a different one. ‘Toxicity’ can’t be quantified and therefore can’t be correlated with player performance with any degree of certainty. You might take a view that’s the reason but that’s all it is. I just don’t think they have bought well. Fernandez is an expensive flop. His passing is dreadful. Maguire is cumbersome and forever lives on a few runs with the ball out of defence for England several years ago. Good header of the ball but so are Dunk and Webster. Fred and Mct are stealing a living in a PL midfield. Rashford has done very little since showing early promise. I think that perhaps Ronaldo didn’t realise how low standards have fallen at OT, hence his return. They flattered to deceive in recent years, especially under Mourinho. Some things beyond their control eg Greenwood who looked like a brilliant player until recent events.
I’m not saying Brighton are world beaters. Only Liverpool, Man City and Chelsea are in that category with Spurs and Arsenal being part time world beaters, so best of the rest. Man U are still a decent team but have fallen into that next group, which includes Brighton. If that 11 from Sunday turned out for Leicester I don’t think anybody would be saying they are better individual players than we have at Brighton.
- Thread starter
- #29
Agreed.
mikeyjh
Well-known member
I'm not convinced, while no club is in a terminal decline nor are any in a terminal rise (all these things are cyclical), Man U do like they need a full (Derby style!) reset - That's not easy to achieve and I think they'll be through another manager or 2 before they're there.
I think this is the key issue. They say form is temporary and class permanent. For me, it's all about performance and currently we have more of it than them. If Nine Hag can't conjure the performance that their class predicates.....it will be extremely amusing
Silverhatch
Well-known member
You are right. But football moves on. United are in a period of considerable change and Ten Haag should make them better. Potter has our ‘group’ minus Yves & Marc outplaying one of the great clubs in the world on their big day, at Old Trafford, where we’ve never won, with their newest new Hope in the dugout. That’s what is so impressive about Sunday. On paper United should be at the top end of the table and above Brighton. On grass, now - not so sure.
Super Steve Earle
Well-known member
Well done sir. I was surprised the comment went unchallenged at the time(well a bit).
Super Steve Earle
Well-known member
Sancho over Trossard? You're 'avin' a larf!
I can't say I disagree with your analysis (on the basis of one game where Utd have one manager and clearly had no idea how to implement his style), but I will say two things:
1) I can't really understand why people took umbrage to this "better on paper" quote. Surely "on paper" refers to transfer fees and international caps? It's not an unreasonable thing for Deon Dublin to have said, especially if you take the matchday squad as a whole rather than the starting XI. I see Ronaldo isn't listed in this analysis for that reason.
2) If our players really are better players than theirs, head-to-head, and we have a top class manager, then how come we finished below them last season? And that was before we sold two of our better players. I suppose you could attribute last season's 7 point gap to big team refereeing but a "7-4" preference for Albion players would suggest that 7 point gap shouldn't exist at all, even with big team refereeing.
1) I can't really understand why people took umbrage to this "better on paper" quote. Surely "on paper" refers to transfer fees and international caps? It's not an unreasonable thing for Deon Dublin to have said, especially if you take the matchday squad as a whole rather than the starting XI. I see Ronaldo isn't listed in this analysis for that reason.
2) If our players really are better players than theirs, head-to-head, and we have a top class manager, then how come we finished below them last season? And that was before we sold two of our better players. I suppose you could attribute last season's 7 point gap to big team refereeing but a "7-4" preference for Albion players would suggest that 7 point gap shouldn't exist at all, even with big team refereeing.
Bold Seagull
strong and stable with me, or...
'on paper' = stats, international caps, trophies etc.
'off paper' = opinion, form, effectiveness, team play etc.
Dublin to be fair made it clear he was talking about 'on paper' not what is actually in front of our eyes.
....I see [MENTION=232]Simster[/MENTION] has actually already said this above...
'off paper' = opinion, form, effectiveness, team play etc.
Dublin to be fair made it clear he was talking about 'on paper' not what is actually in front of our eyes.
....I see [MENTION=232]Simster[/MENTION] has actually already said this above...
Neville's Breakfast
Well-known member
That can be a bit of a circular argument eg Maguire. Like many people I wouldn’t pick him for England but your criteria make him ‘better on paper’ with each accumulated cap. Similarly, transfer fees can be overpaid. Man Utd tend to have to pay a premium in the transfer market . That doesn’t make their targets better. On paper’ doesn’t mean that to me or others hence the varying views.
... and run to Brighton. He's the one United player I'd have in an instant. There's a footballer there and I think Potter could work wonders with him. He's out of our price range, sadly, but I think he'll just decline further while he's at OT
I take your circular argument point, it's just that people on here got very needy after that Dublin quote despite it clearly being a very reasonable view even if it can easily be challenged.
It will be interesting to see if we can finish above them this year, although so much can happen in that time. For a start, if we have another decent season and England flop in Qatar, then Potter is nailed on to be offered Southgate's job. Equally, United might prove to be a different side altogether if he brings in just one or two key players and then gets a tune out of several of his players. Some of them are excellent or have been excellent in the recent past, but have just been rudderless for too long.
saafend_seagull
Well-known member
Sancho is horrific. Wouldn’t have him in any kind of team. With any kind of manager.
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