Omar Deghayes to return to Brighton

[cjd]

The Libyan government killed his father and visited Omar Deghayes in Guantanamo - not with a view to freeing him, but to threaten him with death if he ever got out.

And there are people on NSC who think that his connection with Libya is reason to condemn him! I'm amazed.

May I ask why the Libyan government threatened him with death when he gets out, and is this documented and witnessed......?..........or is this just Omars version of events...?

 

[Lord Bracknell]

May I ask why the Libyan government threatened him with death when he gets out, and is this documented and witnessed......?..........or is this just Omars version of events...?

There are a number of sources that quote the story about the Libyan death threat. Here's Amnesty International's version, dating from June 2005:-

CASE SHEET 9
Libyan citizen/UK resident: Omar Deghayes
Full name: Omar Deghayes
Nationality: Libyan citizen/UK resident
Age: 35
Family status: Married with a three year-old son
Occupation: Lawyer

"If torture and abuse had a smell, none of the American soldiers would be able to sit next to anyone else."
Omar Deghayes

Background

In March 1980 Amnesty International issued an Urgent Action featuring a Libyan trade union leader and political opponent of Colonel Mu’ammar al-Gaddafi. He had been arrested by Libyan secret police and was executed three days later. The Urgent Action stated that the man had five children. One of those children is Omar Deghayes.

Omar Deghayes and his family managed to flee persecution in Libya and were eventually granted political asylum in the UK. Omar Deghayes grew up in Brighton and studied law in British universities. A devout Muslim, Omar Deghayes visited prisoners to offer them support. Omar Deghayes’ ambition was to be a human rights lawyer.

In 2001, Omar Deghayes decided to travel with a friend and look for work. He went to Malaysia, Pakistan and eventually Afghanistan, where he married and had a son.

When the international conflict in Afghanistan started after the 11 September 2001 attacks in the USA, Omar Deghayes fled to Pakistan with his wife and baby. They were planning to return to the UK when they were arrested in Lahore in April 2002, reportedly for a bounty of US$5,000.

Omar Deghayes was caught up as an "enemy combatant" and eventually transferred to Guantánamo Bay via Afghanistan. In all, four governments have been complicit in his detention, alleged ill-treatment and torture, and in denying him justice for over three years.

Torture allegations

"I underwent systematic beatings every night for three days. Each time, when I was nearly unconscious, I would be thrown back into the cell to await more."
Omar Deghayes

In Pakistan, Omar Deghayes alleges that he was tortured in custody. He was told he was being held in Pakistan at the behest of the USA. Omar Deghayes says that he was:
•subjected to "systematic beatings";
•forced into stress positions;
•kept in a dimly lit room full of glass boxes with
•"very large snakes", and threatened with being left
•in the room after the snakes had been released;
•submerged under water until he believed he would drown.

In Afghanistan, Omar Deghayes likened the US-run prison at Bagram air base to "Nazi camps that I saw in films".

When asked by his lawyer about beatings in Bagram, Omar Deghayes replied, "Of course, beating and torture is considered normal [there]". Omar said he was also subjected to:
• forced nudity;
• food deprivation;
• being locked in a box with very little air for prolonged periods;
• being chained to the wall and suspended by the wrists.

Omar Deghayes states that the "guards forced petrol and benzene up the anuses of prisoners. This would burn horribly".

In Guantánamo Bay, where Omar Deghayes was transferred in September 2002, he has reportedly been targeted for ill-treatment because he has legal training and has spoken out against abuses through his lawyer. The alleged abuses include:
•he and other detainees were sexually assaulted during a strip search, and when he challenged the guards he was repeatedly pepper-sprayed in the eyes and face, and a guard forced his finger into one of Omar’s eyes, leaving him blind in that eye;
•a jet of high pressure water was sprayed up his nose until he thought he would suffocate;
•he was kept in solitary confinement for over eight months;
•on 9 and 11 September 2004 he was interrogated by Libyan intelligence agents who threatened him with violence and death. In addition, British intelligence agents are reported to have interrogated Omar Deghayes up to seven times while in Bagram and Guantánamo.

Family

"[The letters] are heavily censored – they just say things like ‘how are you?’ and ‘I’m fine’"
Taher Deghayes, Omar Deghayes’ brother.

Omar Deghayes’ family has found it difficult to deal with his long, indefinite captivity and the gruesome allegations of torture. For most of the three years, their only contact with Omar Deghayes has been through heavily censored letters delivered by the Red Cross. Omar Deghayes’ wife is distraught, and Omar Deghayes has not seen his son, who is now three, since he was a couple of months old.

Omar Deghayes’ family is convinced this is a case of mistaken identity. Omar Deghayes’ name appeared on the FBI’s Most Wanted list, and the accompanying picture was taken from a training video of a Chechen separatist group. According to the family, the person in the video looks nothing like Omar Deghayes, a view supported by facial recognition experts.

....

Citizenship

"The biggest fear is if they send him back to Libya."
Taher Deghayes, Omar Deghayes’ brother

Omar Deghayes’ situation is worsened by his citizenship status. He has had refugee status in the UK since 1987, and his family are all British citizens. Omar Deghayes had applied for citizenship, but missed an interview because he was abroad. The UK has argued that under international law it can only intervene on behalf of British citizens.

Omar Deghayes still has a Libyan passport, which means it is left to the Libyan government, the same government that executed his father and threatened Omar Deghayes with torture, to make diplomatic representations on his behalf.

This raises the concern that, if released from Guantánamo Bay, the US authorities will send Omar Deghayes to Libya where he will be at risk of further torture. One of the Libyan agents who interrogated him in Guantánamo Bay allegedly said: "You will be brought to judgement in Libya. In here I cannot do anything but if I meet you [later] I will kill you."

http://www.amnesty.org/en/alfresco_asset/390f1efd-a2d8-11dc-8d74-6f45f39984e5/amr510882005en.pdf



It's worth noting that Omar Deghayes was questioned in 2004 by British intelligence agents, as well as by the Libyans. It's quite possible that they have more evidence that can corroborate the story.

 

[BigGully]

There are a number of sources that quote the story about the Libyan death threat. Here's Amnesty International's version, dating from June 2005:-

CASE SHEET 9
Libyan citizen/UK resident: Omar Deghayes
Full name: Omar Deghayes
Nationality: Libyan citizen/UK resident
Age: 35
Family status: Married with a three year-old son
Occupation: Lawyer

"If torture and abuse had a smell, none of the American soldiers would be able to sit next to anyone else."
Omar Deghayes

Background

In March 1980 Amnesty International issued an Urgent Action featuring a Libyan trade union leader and political opponent of Colonel Mu’ammar al-Gaddafi. He had been arrested by Libyan secret police and was executed three days later. The Urgent Action stated that the man had five children. One of those children is Omar Deghayes.

Omar Deghayes and his family managed to flee persecution in Libya and were eventually granted political asylum in the UK. Omar Deghayes grew up in Brighton and studied law in British universities. A devout Muslim, Omar Deghayes visited prisoners to offer them support. Omar Deghayes’ ambition was to be a human rights lawyer.

In 2001, Omar Deghayes decided to travel with a friend and look for work. He went to Malaysia, Pakistan and eventually Afghanistan, where he married and had a son.

When the international conflict in Afghanistan started after the 11 September 2001 attacks in the USA, Omar Deghayes fled to Pakistan with his wife and baby. They were planning to return to the UK when they were arrested in Lahore in April 2002, reportedly for a bounty of US$5,000.

Omar Deghayes was caught up as an "enemy combatant" and eventually transferred to Guantánamo Bay via Afghanistan. In all, four governments have been complicit in his detention, alleged ill-treatment and torture, and in denying him justice for over three years.

Torture allegations

"I underwent systematic beatings every night for three days. Each time, when I was nearly unconscious, I would be thrown back into the cell to await more."
Omar Deghayes

In Pakistan, Omar Deghayes alleges that he was tortured in custody. He was told he was being held in Pakistan at the behest of the USA. Omar Deghayes says that he was:
•subjected to "systematic beatings";
•forced into stress positions;
•kept in a dimly lit room full of glass boxes with
•"very large snakes", and threatened with being left
•in the room after the snakes had been released;
•submerged under water until he believed he would drown.

In Afghanistan, Omar Deghayes likened the US-run prison at Bagram air base to "Nazi camps that I saw in films".

When asked by his lawyer about beatings in Bagram, Omar Deghayes replied, "Of course, beating and torture is considered normal [there]". Omar said he was also subjected to:
• forced nudity;
• food deprivation;
• being locked in a box with very little air for prolonged periods;
• being chained to the wall and suspended by the wrists.

Omar Deghayes states that the "guards forced petrol and benzene up the anuses of prisoners. This would burn horribly".

In Guantánamo Bay, where Omar Deghayes was transferred in September 2002, he has reportedly been targeted for ill-treatment because he has legal training and has spoken out against abuses through his lawyer. The alleged abuses include:
•he and other detainees were sexually assaulted during a strip search, and when he challenged the guards he was repeatedly pepper-sprayed in the eyes and face, and a guard forced his finger into one of Omar’s eyes, leaving him blind in that eye;
•a jet of high pressure water was sprayed up his nose until he thought he would suffocate;
•he was kept in solitary confinement for over eight months;
•on 9 and 11 September 2004 he was interrogated by Libyan intelligence agents who threatened him with violence and death. In addition, British intelligence agents are reported to have interrogated Omar Deghayes up to seven times while in Bagram and Guantánamo.

Family

"[The letters] are heavily censored – they just say things like ‘how are you?’ and ‘I’m fine’"
Taher Deghayes, Omar Deghayes’ brother.

Omar Deghayes’ family has found it difficult to deal with his long, indefinite captivity and the gruesome allegations of torture. For most of the three years, their only contact with Omar Deghayes has been through heavily censored letters delivered by the Red Cross. Omar Deghayes’ wife is distraught, and Omar Deghayes has not seen his son, who is now three, since he was a couple of months old.

Omar Deghayes’ family is convinced this is a case of mistaken identity. Omar Deghayes’ name appeared on the FBI’s Most Wanted list, and the accompanying picture was taken from a training video of a Chechen separatist group. According to the family, the person in the video looks nothing like Omar Deghayes, a view supported by facial recognition experts.

....

Citizenship

"The biggest fear is if they send him back to Libya."
Taher Deghayes, Omar Deghayes’ brother

Omar Deghayes’ situation is worsened by his citizenship status. He has had refugee status in the UK since 1987, and his family are all British citizens. Omar Deghayes had applied for citizenship, but missed an interview because he was abroad. The UK has argued that under international law it can only intervene on behalf of British citizens.

Omar Deghayes still has a Libyan passport, which means it is left to the Libyan government, the same government that executed his father and threatened Omar Deghayes with torture, to make diplomatic representations on his behalf.

This raises the concern that, if released from Guantánamo Bay, the US authorities will send Omar Deghayes to Libya where he will be at risk of further torture. One of the Libyan agents who interrogated him in Guantánamo Bay allegedly said: "You will be brought to judgement in Libya. In here I cannot do anything but if I meet you [later] I will kill you."

http://www.amnesty.org/en/alfresco_asset/390f1efd-a2d8-11dc-8d74-6f45f39984e5/amr510882005en.pdf



It's worth noting that Omar Deghayes was questioned in 2004 by British intelligence agents, as well as by the Libyans. It's quite possible that they have more evidence that can corroborate the story.

Your last paragraph, who might have more evidence and evidence of what and corraborate what ??

 

[BigGully]

why do you think I hate america?

Your ironic if somewhat unfunny.....

'Me hate America.....priceless' quote

Kinda giveaway..............

The old adage that if your a liar, have a good memory.

 

[BigGully]

What evidence do you have to say he is a supporter of terrorism? His brother sees Tony Blair as a legitimate target, so... it automatically follows Omar does too?

So this is the stage where we're at, is it? He gets locked up for five years without trial or access to legal help because of his political beliefs? Got you.

Ok Ok.......i think we should do a swap we get our Omar back and Guantanamo gets his Brother.......

 

[cjd]

There are a number of sources that quote the story about the Libyan death threat. Here's Amnesty International's version, dating from June 2005:-

CASE SHEET 9
Libyan citizen/UK resident: Omar Deghayes
Full name: Omar Deghayes
Nationality: Libyan citizen/UK resident
Age: 35
Family status: Married with a three year-old son
Occupation: Lawyer

"If torture and abuse had a smell, none of the American soldiers would be able to sit next to anyone else."
Omar Deghayes

Background

In March 1980 Amnesty International issued an Urgent Action featuring a Libyan trade union leader and political opponent of Colonel Mu’ammar al-Gaddafi. He had been arrested by Libyan secret police and was executed three days later. The Urgent Action stated that the man had five children. One of those children is Omar Deghayes.

Omar Deghayes and his family managed to flee persecution in Libya and were eventually granted political asylum in the UK. Omar Deghayes grew up in Brighton and studied law in British universities. A devout Muslim, Omar Deghayes visited prisoners to offer them support. Omar Deghayes’ ambition was to be a human rights lawyer.

In 2001, Omar Deghayes decided to travel with a friend and look for work. He went to Malaysia, Pakistan and eventually Afghanistan, where he married and had a son.

When the international conflict in Afghanistan started after the 11 September 2001 attacks in the USA, Omar Deghayes fled to Pakistan with his wife and baby. They were planning to return to the UK when they were arrested in Lahore in April 2002, reportedly for a bounty of US$5,000.

Omar Deghayes was caught up as an "enemy combatant" and eventually transferred to Guantánamo Bay via Afghanistan. In all, four governments have been complicit in his detention, alleged ill-treatment and torture, and in denying him justice for over three years.

Torture allegations

"I underwent systematic beatings every night for three days. Each time, when I was nearly unconscious, I would be thrown back into the cell to await more."
Omar Deghayes

In Pakistan, Omar Deghayes alleges that he was tortured in custody. He was told he was being held in Pakistan at the behest of the USA. Omar Deghayes says that he was:
•subjected to "systematic beatings";
•forced into stress positions;
•kept in a dimly lit room full of glass boxes with
•"very large snakes", and threatened with being left
•in the room after the snakes had been released;
•submerged under water until he believed he would drown.

In Afghanistan, Omar Deghayes likened the US-run prison at Bagram air base to "Nazi camps that I saw in films".

When asked by his lawyer about beatings in Bagram, Omar Deghayes replied, "Of course, beating and torture is considered normal [there]". Omar said he was also subjected to:
• forced nudity;
• food deprivation;
• being locked in a box with very little air for prolonged periods;
• being chained to the wall and suspended by the wrists.

Omar Deghayes states that the "guards forced petrol and benzene up the anuses of prisoners. This would burn horribly".

In Guantánamo Bay, where Omar Deghayes was transferred in September 2002, he has reportedly been targeted for ill-treatment because he has legal training and has spoken out against abuses through his lawyer. The alleged abuses include:
•he and other detainees were sexually assaulted during a strip search, and when he challenged the guards he was repeatedly pepper-sprayed in the eyes and face, and a guard forced his finger into one of Omar’s eyes, leaving him blind in that eye;
•a jet of high pressure water was sprayed up his nose until he thought he would suffocate;
•he was kept in solitary confinement for over eight months;
•on 9 and 11 September 2004 he was interrogated by Libyan intelligence agents who threatened him with violence and death. In addition, British intelligence agents are reported to have interrogated Omar Deghayes up to seven times while in Bagram and Guantánamo.

Family

"[The letters] are heavily censored – they just say things like ‘how are you?’ and ‘I’m fine’"
Taher Deghayes, Omar Deghayes’ brother.

Omar Deghayes’ family has found it difficult to deal with his long, indefinite captivity and the gruesome allegations of torture. For most of the three years, their only contact with Omar Deghayes has been through heavily censored letters delivered by the Red Cross. Omar Deghayes’ wife is distraught, and Omar Deghayes has not seen his son, who is now three, since he was a couple of months old.

Omar Deghayes’ family is convinced this is a case of mistaken identity. Omar Deghayes’ name appeared on the FBI’s Most Wanted list, and the accompanying picture was taken from a training video of a Chechen separatist group. According to the family, the person in the video looks nothing like Omar Deghayes, a view supported by facial recognition experts.

....

Citizenship

"The biggest fear is if they send him back to Libya."
Taher Deghayes, Omar Deghayes’ brother

Omar Deghayes’ situation is worsened by his citizenship status. He has had refugee status in the UK since 1987, and his family are all British citizens. Omar Deghayes had applied for citizenship, but missed an interview because he was abroad. The UK has argued that under international law it can only intervene on behalf of British citizens.

Omar Deghayes still has a Libyan passport, which means it is left to the Libyan government, the same government that executed his father and threatened Omar Deghayes with torture, to make diplomatic representations on his behalf.

This raises the concern that, if released from Guantánamo Bay, the US authorities will send Omar Deghayes to Libya where he will be at risk of further torture. One of the Libyan agents who interrogated him in Guantánamo Bay allegedly said: "You will be brought to judgement in Libya. In here I cannot do anything but if I meet you [later] I will kill you."

http://www.amnesty.org/en/alfresco_asset/390f1efd-a2d8-11dc-8d74-6f45f39984e5/amr510882005en.pdf



It's worth noting that Omar Deghayes was questioned in 2004 by British intelligence agents, as well as by the Libyans. It's quite possible that they have more evidence that can corroborate the story.

So....the short answer to my question of whether his claims were witnessed, is...............no.
Just hearsay from Omar.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Since pretty much anything that comes out of Guantanamo is hearsay, unless corroborated by the authorities, I guess there are always going to be some uncertainties.

What is certain is that the rest of his family are fearful of Libyan reprisals against them. That's why they (and he) were granted political asylum in Britain, 20 years ago.

Incidentally ... Is anyone else struck by this phrase in the Amnesty International case sheet?

"•submerged under water until he believed he would drown".

Easy to dismiss as "hearsay". But not at all dissimilar to the stories of US torture that have emerged today, thanks to the testimony of ex-CIA agent, John Kiriakou, which is now being investigated by two congressional intelligence committees in Washington.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7138637.stm

 

[GNF on Tour]

There are three things that are clear to me from reading this thread (and before I had absolutely know idea about this guy).

1 - Bracknell and the other liberals cannot justify with any certainty he is not a AQ sympathiser or any danger to society;

2 - Big Gully cannot justify with any certainty that he is a AQ sympathiser and a danger to society (and by the way shame on those people how called him a bigot when the mods on this board let other far more bigoted comments from regular posters on this board go unpunished);

3 - Dave the Gaffer cannot argue a point for piss and does not realise when is a good time to give up (even when he might be right).

I don't know where the truth lies, but to be honest, from an outsiders point of view, a Libyan with a known AQ sympathiser brother travelling in Pakistan and Afghanistan (when he is meant to be a poor refugee) does look a bit suspect don't you think?

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Why do you keep banging on about him being a Libyan? Isn't it OBVIOUS that his family have renounced their Libyan citizenship YEARS AGO, when they became British?

Why are refugees supposed to be POOR? The family was admitted to the UK in the 1980s. He's educated, with law qualifications. What is unusual about someone completing their studies and travelling to Malaysia, Pakistan and Afghanistan (before war broke out)?

 

[GNF on Tour]

Why do you keep banging on about him being a Libyan? Isn't it OBVIOUS that his family have renounced their Libyan citizenship YEARS AGO, when they became British?

Why are refugees supposed to be POOR? The family was admitted to the UK in the 1980s. He's educated, with law qualifications. What is unusual about someone completing their studies and travelling to Malaysia, Pakistan and Afghanistan (before war broke out)?

er no, its not obvious, but its a moot point given the wider implications of this discussion. Having said that, the scenario where by he finishes college and fancies doing a bit of backbacking to Taliban territory does not fit the usual profile of graduating students looking for a few laughs before becoming lawyers, doctors, transport planners etc etc. Again, I don't know whether your right or wrong about this guy, but the evidence you give does not, to most independent observers, clear him from suspicion.

Actually, renouncing his Libyan past would mean nothing in terms of the context of being a religious fundamentalist. religion would take first place over nationality everytime, I thought that would have been pretty OBVIOUS.

 

[BigGully]

Why do you keep banging on about him being a Libyan? Isn't it OBVIOUS that his family have renounced their Libyan citizenship YEARS AGO, when they became British?

Why are refugees supposed to be POOR? The family was admitted to the UK in the 1980s. He's educated, with law qualifications. What is unusual about someone completing their studies and travelling to Malaysia, Pakistan and Afghanistan (before war broke out)?

I think the Lybian question is relevant when looking at the overall picture, actually I havent used anything specifically negative about him being Lybian.

It is this.....

Coming from Lybia increases the need for question to his link and visiting Afghanistan and Pakistan. Why ?

Now if he was from Pakistan this would be a rather less of an issue.

It is a rather weak argument to dismiss this when you say it is not a Law to visit Pakistan BTW................. when there is suspision then this is relevant.

 

[BigGully]

Why do you keep banging on about him being a Libyan? Isn't it OBVIOUS that his family have renounced their Libyan citizenship YEARS AGO, when they became British?

Why are refugees supposed to be POOR? The family was admitted to the UK in the 1980s. He's educated, with law qualifications. What is unusual about someone completing their studies and travelling to Malaysia, Pakistan and Afghanistan (before war broke out)?

I guess you going to think I am being cynical again, but I truly beleive this is likely.

Firstly it would be interesting to know if he ever finished and actually gained this degree.

Secondly it seems he may have never actually worked in any Law practice and I would like to know his employment status prior to his jaunts to Afghanistan and Pakistan.

He may well had no legal means of income.........therefore he had every right to be poor !!


'What is unusual about someone completing their studies and travelling to Malaysia, Pakistan and Afghanistan (before war broke out)?[/QUOTE]'

In the context of suspision of any likely Terrorist threat it remains relevant.

Come on guys, irrespective where you view this, that must be recognised.

 

[BigGully]

Since pretty much anything that comes out of Guantanamo is hearsay, unless corroborated by the authorities, I guess there are always going to be some uncertainties.

What is certain is that the rest of his family are fearful of Libyan reprisals against them. That's why they (and he) were granted political asylum in Britain, 20 years ago.

Incidentally ... Is anyone else struck by this phrase in the Amnesty International case sheet?

"•submerged under water until he believed he would drown".

Easy to dismiss as "hearsay". But not at all dissimilar to the stories of US torture that have emerged today, thanks to the testimony of ex-CIA agent, John Kiriakou, which is now being investigated by two congressional intelligence committees in Washington.


Moving on the argument away from Omar for just a moment, I would love to know what your feelings are about his Brother.

I didnt know anything about this man until this thread, but I would appreciate it if you didnt just dismiss The Times journalism.......unless of course you wish to.

 

[Simster]

1 - Bracknell and the other liberals cannot justify with any certainty he is not a AQ sympathiser or any danger to society;

2 - Big Gully cannot justify with any certainty that he is a AQ sympathiser and a danger to society (and by the way shame on those people how called him a bigot when the mods on this board let other far more bigoted comments from regular posters on this board go unpunished);

Right on both counts. But in a civilised Western society, there is a principle of "innocent until proven guilty". So in fact, LB shouldn't need to prove that he isn't a AQ sympathiser in order to justify releasing this bloke from 5 years of imprisonment without trial really, should he?

 

[Lord Bracknell]

In the context of suspision of any likely Terrorist threat it remains relevant.

Come on guys, irrespective where you view this, that must be recognised.

In times of peace? That's ridiculous.

I very nearly went to Syria a couple of months ago - the trip coincided with Roz being in hospital, so I didn't go.

I was in Israel a few years back, just before the assassination of Rabin.

I have no family ties with either country. Does that make me a suspect?

 

[Norman Baker suck my lozenge]

The Libyan government killed his father and visited Omar Deghayes in Guantanamo - not with a view to freeing him, but to threaten him with death if he ever got out.

And there are people on NSC who think that his connection with Libya is reason to condemn him! I'm amazed.

The Libyan government have killed a lot of peoples Fathers,is this fact that they killed omars ?or could it be He's just another chancer turning up here looking for a buckshee education before declaring jihad on us filthy Kuffor,then as soon as he's rumbled goes bleating and wailing for the very society he despises to rip up and get him out of the cooler,also You're correct , his connection with Libya is no reason to condemn him,just as my connection with Britain is no reason to blow me into a mass of snot on my way to work.I think this man is a threat to this country and i'm not sure why My government has been spending my money on negotiating his release for,

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Moving on the argument away from Omar for just a moment, I would love to know what your feelings are about his Brother.

I didnt know anything about this man until this thread, but I would appreciate it if you didnt just dismiss The Times journalism.......unless of course you wish to.

I've known Imam Dr Abduljalil Sajid for years, and what I know about the recent upheavals in the Brighton muslim community I've learned from his perspective.

In real life, I work for an organisation that provides services to a variety of faith groups in Brighton (including members of the muslim community) and I don't think it's appropriate if I get drawn into what could turn out to be a long debate about what is going on. The community can no doubt resolve its own issues.

Sorry.



But apart from that, Omar can't be held accountable for the what his brother gets up to. His brother is a UK citizen, incidentally, so any aspirations that people might have to deal with him through the immigration processes aren't going to be fulfilled.

 

[Dave the OAP]

Your ironic if somewhat unfunny.....

'Me hate America.....priceless' quote

Kinda giveaway..............

The old adage that if your a liar, have a good memory.

So i am a liar now....

You dont really get sarcasm do you

I respectfully withdraw from this discussion. Life is too short to deal with rabid nutters

 

[Lord Bracknell]

The Libyan government have killed a lot of peoples Fathers,is this fact that they killed omars ?or could it be He's just another chancer turning up here looking for a buckshee education before declaring jihad on us filthy Kuffor,then as soon as he's rumbled goes bleating and wailing for the very society he despises to rip up and get him out of the cooler,also You're correct , his connection with Libya is no reason to condemn him,just as my connection with Britain is no reason to blow me into a mass of snot on my way to work.I think this man is a threat to this country and i'm not sure why My government has been spending my money on negotiating his release for,

Good grief! Even in the Libya of 1980, the assassination of a leading trade unionist was well documented - and the subject of international outrage. Amer Deghayes, Omar's father, was a very high profile individual. In 1969, he had been offered the post of Foreign Minister in Gaddafi's first government. He refused it, incidentally.

But you choose to insinuate, 27 years later, that this is a story made up (by a ten year old?) as part of a cunning plan to wage jihad.

 

[BigGully]

I've known Imam Dr Abduljalil Sajid for years, and what I know about the recent upheavals in the Brighton muslim community I've learned from his perspective.

In real life, I work for an organisation that provides services to a variety of faith groups in Brighton (including members of the muslim community) and I don't think it's appropriate if I get drawn into what could turn out to be a long debate about what is going on. The community can no doubt resolve its own issues.

Sorry.



But apart from that, Omar can't be held accountable for the what his brother gets up to. His brother is a UK citizen, incidentally, so any aspirations that people might have to deal with him through the immigration processes aren't going to be fulfilled.

Ok................... but I am intrigued, what services do they require above and beyond the services that I and my Family require.

'The Community can no doubt resolve its own issues' how do you mean

Thats like asking the Mafia resolve its own issues, we have a Law of the Land, you me and everyone on here have to endear to it, me and my mates cannot resolve our speeding indiscretions, we get charged and fined.

It must be unacceptable for an Extreme Muslim Cleric can spout such evil.....surely ....... they poisen young minds and the end game is killing innocent people... that is what IS happening today.

How a devout Muslim from Lybia can come to our Secular Tolerant Country, supposedly fleeing persecution, get granted British Citizenship, then 'take over' the local Brighton Mosque and start preaching hate towards the Western World and condone any assination of our elected Prime Minister Tony Blair and we stand by passively and people like you that are close to the situation say that they can resolve their own issues !!!

Theres a problem.................. you seem to lack the imagination to recognise just how angry that makes so many people and the harm it does to the moderate Muslims and our perception of their faith.