[Football] Old Firm to Premier League

[BadFish]

Does the looming possibility of them leaving the UK union play any part in this? Surely for there to be a United Kingdom league structure we need a more united kingdom?

Would be ironic after all these years of discussion if we managed to get something up and running and our scotch cousins decided to desert us for 'FREEEEEDDDOOOMM' and the EU.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Swansea and Cardiff aren't either.

I'm not in favour btw. Just saying.

I'd rather they left the league than any other foreign clubs join.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Does the looming possibility of them leaving the UK union play any part in this? Surely for there to be a United Kingdom league structure we need a more united kingdom?

Would be ironic after all these years of discussion if we managed to get something up and running and our scotch cousins decided to desert us for 'FREEEEEDDDOOOMM' and the EU.

I don’t really see the relevance of Scottish independence. The Belgian and Dutch leagues are planning a merger. It’s a bit of a stretch to imagine that constitutional politics would get in the way of football politics on this issue.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....border-league-with-teams-from-the-netherlands

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

Haven't read all the thread so this may have been mentioned, but it would be ironic if the ESL was abandoned due to huge outrage about the structure and the history of our league, if we allowed the two Scottish teams to decimate the structure and history of theirs.

 

[drew]

I saw David Moyes touting this the other day too. His suggestion was a 2-tier Premier League, with Celtic and Rangers joining the 2nd tier. I think he also suggested the other clubs could become part of a Britain-wide pyramid.

Marvellous idea, Plymouth v Wick on a Tuesday night!!!

 

[Lethargic]

Swansea and Cardiff aren't either.

I'm not in favour btw. Just saying.

At the time the Welsh clubs joined the league Wales was not recognised as a country but a principality of England. It only became recognised as a country in 2011 so they did have a legitimate arguement to be in the English leagues much like cricket.

Sent from my CPH2173 using Tapatalk

 

[redoubtable seagull]

Rangers are a loyalist, union supporting ( anti SNP institution ), and perhaps the only team with a picture of the Queen on the wall of their home dressing room, whereas Celtic actually fly the flag of the Irish Republic above their stadium.

Celtic fans have previously defiled the Union, most notably at Arsenal, in a friendly, where they booed on Armed Forces Day - check it out !

Rangers have in recent times had friendlies with Sheffield Wednesday and others ( Wigan etc. where great rapport has been established. ) to the betterment of football generally !

So the police shouldn't be too concerned about Rangers at least,

Wigan’s visit to Rangers in 2018 was not so friendly.
Glasgow police might not be so enamoured about the idea. It’s a lively city at the best of times.

 

[FatSuperman]

Do people genuinely think the Rangers/Celtic would survive in the Prem? Saying nothing about the rest of the Scottish teams.

I get that they have awesome support, and long term they might be a force, but they have to survive first and they will have one window and one years worth of money to get a loan against. Surely that isn’t anywhere near enough time / money to get them competitive squads, based on what they have now?

Obviously depends on how well the bottom 14 / promoted teams do. Also doesn’t take into account that I haven’t seen much Scottish football, so they could have top-end Championship already!

 

[Pint of Ale and a Burger]

Why do they think they have a right to just walk into the best league in the world?
We have had to fight long and hard to earn our place here and others are doing the same now and like us they are doing it on a shoestring.
Just feels like arrogant rich club's feeling that because they are richer than others it somehow makes them more important.

 

[Lenny Rider]

The Police would have serious concerns, when trying to sort out Kerry's testimonial all those years ago, we obviously had the McGhee/Strachan Celtic connection, it would have been a sell out and not that much of an outlay, but we were told it was a non starter with Sussex Police.

Many years ago Rangers rioted at Villa in a pre season friendly, and were effectively banned from friendlies in England for years due to Policing issues.

 

[blue-shifted]

I don’t really see the relevance of Scottish independence. The Belgian and Dutch leagues are planning a merger. It’s a bit of a stretch to imagine that constitutional politics would get in the way of football politics on this issue.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....border-league-with-teams-from-the-netherlands

But we'd have a hard border as we'll be outside the EU and presumably they'll be in it.

Not insurmountable, but might need car checks / papers and a passport to get to an away game.

Not the case with Belgium and Holland

 

[Marshy]

No and No. Not unless we want to kill Scottish football. I dont want to be part of that.

 

[blue-shifted]

Marvellous idea, Plymouth v Wick on a Tuesday night!!!

It's the possibility of adding to the away grounds that is most appealling about this idea.

A weekend in the Highands on an Albion away trip would be awesome

 

[ManOfSussex]

Rangers are a loyalist, union supporting ( anti SNP institution ), and perhaps the only team with a picture of the Queen on the wall of their home dressing room, whereas Celtic actually fly the flag of the Irish Republic above their stadium.

Celtic fans have previously defiled the Union, most notably at Arsenal, in a friendly, where they booed on Armed Forces Day - check it out !

Rangers have in recent times had friendlies with Sheffield Wednesday and others ( Wigan etc. where great rapport has been established. ) to the betterment of football generally !

So the police shouldn't be too concerned about Rangers at least,

As part of the deal that took Neil Lennon to Celtic they played a friendly against Leicester at Filbert Street not long after The Queen Mother had died and they were singing 'Where's your Queen Mum gone?' as well.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

But we'd have a hard border as we'll be outside the EU and presumably they'll be in it.

Not insurmountable, but might need car checks / papers and a passport to get to an away game.

Not the case with Belgium and Holland

I don’t think anyone is planning to rebuild Hadrian’s Wall ! There is no ‘hard border’ between Switzerland and the EU nor the UK and Ireland. I think you are getting ahead of yourself.

 

[Hamilton]

Rangers and Celtic do want it.

They have huge support and with the vast riches of EPL money, they'd very soon be amongst the top clubs.

Would you say their support is greater than Newcastle's?

I'm just thinking that even having a vast and passionate support base doesn't guarantee success now. Look at Spurs and Arsenal? Would they just be joining the ranks of also rans?

Would be better to start imposing proper FFP on the likes of City, Real, Juve etc. It's not for us to solve Scottish football's problems. Recognise that's not what you were saying.

 

[Weststander]

Would you say their support is greater than Newcastle's?

I'm just thinking that even having a vast and passionate support base doesn't guarantee success now. Look at Spurs and Arsenal? Would they just be joining the ranks of also rans?

Would be better to start imposing proper FFP on the likes of City, Real, Juve etc. It's not for us to solve Scottish football's problems. Recognise that's not what you were saying.

The Newcastle comparison is an obvious one. The 800,000 metro population of Newcastle, 52,000 sell outs.

Newcastle are held back by financially astute Ashley.

Rangers and Celtic have 60,000 and 52,000 sell outs.

But their catchment is the vast majority of 2.25m Strathclyde, they have support from all over Scotland (a fleet of coaches and minibuses heading to Parkhead and Ibrox on match days), they dominate Scottish football, gates only limited by stadium size. Plus all of their support on Ireland (Rangers in NI only, obviously) and Anglo Scots whose hearts are with one or other of the pair.

With vast EPL monies and not basket case owners, I think they’d compete near the top.

 

[Hamilton]

The Newcastle comparison is an obvious one. The 800,000 metro population of Newcastle, 52,000 sell outs.

Newcastle are held back by financially astute Ashley.

Rangers and Celtic have 60,000 and 52,000 sell outs.

But their catchment is the vast majority of 2.25m Strathclyde, they have support from all over Scotland (a fleet of coaches and minibuses heading to Parkhead and Ibrox on match days), they dominate Scottish football, gates only limited by stadium size. Plus all of their support on Ireland (Rangers in NI only, obviously) and Anglo Scots whose hearts are with one or other of the pair.

With vast EPL monies and not basket case owners, I think they’d compete near the top.

No basket case owners - that's the big challenge.

I think they've managed to lead the SPL with limited real investment. To really succeed they'd need to spend money and fast. Anyone selling to them would then be putting an extra nought on the sales figure.

It would be a massive step up for them.

Either way, I hope it doesn't happen - and I don't think it will. The EFL wouldn't accept it, and where would they go if relegated? Although the EFL could be bought, I'm sure.

 

[Pavilionaire]

I believe under this plan they'd be allowed to spend some of their money on new players to improve their squads.

I don't support the plan but the size of Celtic and Rangers (in terms of matchday attendances, support in Glasgow and then nationally/internationally) is not remotely comparable to the clubs you've just mentioned.

I know what you are saying, but how much bang will the Premier League be getting for its buck? The Old Firm are not going to get parachuted straight in to the Premier League - this didn't happen when they were bigger and more attractive and certainly won't happen now, after the ESL fiasco.

And having a Premier League 2 division that they could join simply dilutes the Premier League brand. You'd also have the 72 opposing it because they'd be shit-scared they wouldn't get in. If Celtic and Rangers get an invite then who knows who else might get invited? You'd have a mechanism for the ESL by the back door.

 

[Braggfan]

Surely the same priniciple of killing footballing traditions that was so widely trumpted last week applies to the Old Firm switching as well. It would be a massive blow to Scottish Football, while upsetting the existing domestic football pyramid here in England.