[Misc] Old fashion school injustices

[Baldseagull]

I used to do some work at a secondary school in Hackney, in the reception area they had on the wall one of the old punishment books from the 50's, which listed the names and crimes of the pupils and the punishment from the staff. What was notable was that 3 strokes were given for things such as "threw a chisel at Wilkins" or "fighting with Rogers" and six were given for things like "late homework" or "Talking back".

The cane was withdrawn part way through my secondary education, and it clearly threw many of the teachers who had lost this tool.
I was told by my Form Tutor and Housemaster on different occasions, that I was a frequent topic of conversation in the staff room and divided opinion strongly, with some Teachers convinced that there must have been two boys of the same name as the descriptions of my behaviour, levels of effort, levels of attainment etc. varied massively from their own experiences of me in their classes.
I don't know why it was such a mystery to them, when it was obvious to me, some of the teachers just really didn't like kids, especially kids who could get the better of them in a verbal joust, and they were pissed off that they couldn't beat them with a stick anymore, but still only had intimidation in their repertoire for getting results from reluctant students.
The cane was a crutch for poor teachers.
I am sure many of those Teachers felt that they could have beaten an O level out of me, if only they still had the cane, but the truth is, those teachers that seemed to care about how I did, wanted me to learn and not just produce pages of dictation or copy from the board, and were not just interested in how much respect they were feeling, got more from me than a hateful bugger with a stick ever could have.

 

[Baldseagull]

You said it yourself already, parents Instill the basics and moral code. Or not, that is the problem. Teachers cannot back that up in a modern 'soft' 'politically correct' society. Pastoral care staff at local school to us have admitted they can change children for the better and see remarkable change, until they go home and it's undone in an evening. . . We're at least 3 generations into A decaying society in some areas.

Every generation thinks that the kids of the next generation have less respect than they did. There is a writing from a 15th century Monk bemoaning this. It is not as bad as you think.

 

[Juan Albion]

"I see no hope for the future of our people if they are dependent on frivolous youth of today, for certainly all youth are reckless beyond words... When I was young, we were taught to be discreet and respectful of elders, but the present youth are exceedingly disrespectful and impatient of restraint". (Hesiod, 8th century BC)

"The world is passing through troublesome times. The young people of today think of nothing but themselves. They have no reverence for parents or old age. They are impatient of all restraint. They talk as if they know everything, and what passes for wisdom with us is foolishness with them. As for the girls, they are forward, immodest and unladylike in speech, behaviour and dress." (From a sermon preached by Peter the Hermit in A.D. 1274)

 

[zefarelly]

So basically we're getting old and don't like what we see of 'yoof'

 

[erkan]

"I see no hope for the future of our people if they are dependent on frivolous youth of today, for certainly all youth are reckless beyond words... When I was young, we were taught to be discreet and respectful of elders, but the present youth are exceedingly disrespectful and impatient of restraint". (Hesiod, 8th century BC)

"The world is passing through troublesome times. The young people of today think of nothing but themselves. They have no reverence for parents or old age. They are impatient of all restraint. They talk as if they know everything, and what passes for wisdom with us is foolishness with them. As for the girls, they are forward, immodest and unladylike in speech, behaviour and dress." (From a sermon preached by Peter the Hermit in A.D. 1274)

Excellent quotations.

My other favourite piece of perspective is to recognise how successive generations bemoan technological advances, along with new approaches to teaching, for bringing down levels of educational achievement and scholarship. Apparently the typewriter came in for particular criticism.

Most older people are usually convinced that standards among young people have never been lower...!!! [emoji2]

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[schmunk]

Most older people are usually convinced that standards among young people have never been lower...!!! [emoji2]

The same people who believe that the 1966 England team would still be able to win the World Cup.

 

[Moshe Gariani]

The same people who believe that the 1966 England team would still be able to win the World Cup.

Aren't most of that team dead...?

 

[alfredmizen]

When my dad left the army he was set up for an interview as a p.e instructor at a private school.

It went well. On the point of being offered the job, the headmaster asked him to cane a pillow to show how hard he would hit the pupils.

“ I don’t hit children “ he said.

Got up. Walked out.

i was caned a lot at school , it didnt really do me any lasting harm , but dont let anyone tell you it didnt hurt because it bloody well did , even with 4 or 5 pairs of shorts on it was still very painful , i say it didnt really do me any harm but i am steadfastly against corporal punishment for kids , i was a 12 year old kid and it left really bright weals that turned into bruises , if a teacher left those sort of marks on my kids id want to kill them even if it was legal , ive never raised a hand to either of my kids and there are people on here that can testify that they are polite well behaved boys , inflicting pain on kids ? especially your own ? its not a bit of me at all...

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[Perry Milkins]

i, ive never raised a hand to either of my kids

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Probably because they would lamp you back Alf!

 

[BadFish]

i was caned a lot at school , it didnt really do me any lasting harm , but dont let anyone tell you it didnt hurt because it bloody well did , even with 4 or 5 pairs of shorts on it was still very painful , i say it didnt really do me any harm but i am steadfastly against corporal punishment for kids , i was a 12 year old kid and it left really bright weals that turned into bruises , if a teacher left those sort of marks on my kids id want to kill them even if it was legal , ive never raised a hand to either of my kids and there are people on here that can testify that they are polite well behaved boys , inflicting pain on kids ? especially your own ? its not a bit of me at all...

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agreed.

The idea that children cannot be disciplined without inflicting pain is nonsense.

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[Weststander]

Chronic underfunding of state education is hardly likely to have helped though, is it?

Returning to the theme of the thread, much of the worst child abuse (and general incompetence) was found in the less regulated private sector.



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The children in question were moved to independent schools, also with SEN experts, where the non-diagnosis blunders continued for years. I did mention that both sectors were involved in my last post.

 

[pearl]

Had the miss-fortune of wetting myself at Tarnerland. I must have been four. The punishment was to be stood on a table and changed in front of the whole class. All these years later I still remember the humiliation.

Sorry to read that, totally unacceptable.

 

[alfredmizen]

I thought that the NSC PC Police would have had a field day so I played safe to save a slating, but got one from you anyway!

 

[alfredmizen]

Chronic underfunding of state education is hardly likely to have helped though, is it?

Returning to the theme of the thread, much of the worst child abuse (and general incompetence) was found in the less regulated private sector.



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what has funding got to do with discipline ?

 

[alfredmizen]

Probably because they would lamp you back Alf!

my 14 year old is the same height as me and im 5 '11 , ive probably got a year before i get told to f-off when i try and discipline him, only joking , hes a lovely kid

 

[lawros left foot]

For once I agree with Alf, the cane really hurt. I had it 5 times in all, 6 strokes each time, twice for smoking, once for fiddling the dinner ticket system, once for breaking a window, and, the only one I still resent, punished for punching ( several times) a kid that called my foster sister a ****ing dirty Paki bitch.
The kid got sympathy, I got caned.

My sister, who was in fact Indian by birth, was once clalled a Paki by a deputy Head Teacher.

 

[AnotherArch]

I can't argue with you there. Out of my meagre three O-levels, he taught me two of them - Maths and Tech Drawing. My other in Art was courtesy of Matt Bruce!
Having had George Eley as a form-master, we might have seen a different side to him? Mind you, controlling us lot you needed to have something about you!

These old Varndean masters bring back memories.
I was in Sammy's form in the first year, and escaped one of his whacks until the second term.
Also in first year, we had George Eley for swimming. This involved leaving school just after 2.30, once every 3 weeks, and taking 2 buses to get to St Lukes swimming baths. We had max 40 minutes in the pool and then had to get out, get dried and dressed - and then find our own way home at 4pm or after, in the dark in winter.
Spud Taylor I avoided for all but a term I think, but he was probably the first person I knew with TWO middle names - initials were R.W.K.T.
Matt Bruce got my dad in to see the head when I refused to play cricket for the school on a Saturday, because I was going to to see the Albion at Shrewsbury. My dad backed me up, but confessed later to telling them that ! wasn't any good anyway. (We drew 0-0)
I then had to tell Jack Milford similar a year later, but amazingly he accepted it. He was taking us for Maths at the time and I was something of his 'pet'!
The ones who commanded respect without overt violence were Bintcliffe (physics) and Cunningham (English).
Masters became softer and, for example, were subjected to having their bunsen burner on the front desk 'blown out', when it was the only one lit, which resulted in coal gas being released into the room adjacent to the master.
Harry Allt - what previous posters have omitted was his 'radar' where he could be writing/wiping the board with his back to class, and then in one motion he could swivel and hit the miscreant with the chalk or wooden duster. If the wrong person was hit, it was just accepted as credit for the next time that person did mis-behave. He son was in my class and certainly had a nervous disposition.
You earlier posters came after me, so you may have missed the feared headmaster - 'Butch' Hutchings. He was Oxford grad, 5 foot nothing but just feared. Carried out 'personal appearance inspections' where hair could not reach down over the collar (just pre-Beatles). He administered the cane with relish. Addressed you as 'Dogsbody' if annoyed. Removed 6 foot, 18 years-old sixth-formers from assembly by severely gripping (and twisting) their earlobe with them towering over him.
Those were the days.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

On my last day at school, now several decades ago, I walked out, didn't look back, and vowed never to return. Never been back since and never had any desire to. Nothing personal but never go back.

 

[Peter Ward]

I remember getting the cane, six whacks on the hand, for accidentally hitting a teacher with a mud ball, thrown at another kid in a mud slinging game, around 1966 at Haywards Heath Secondary Modern (now called Oathall Community College.)

 

[pearl]

For once I agree with Alf, the cane really hurt. I had it 5 times in all, 6 strokes each time, twice for smoking, once for fiddling the dinner ticket system, once for breaking a window, and, the only one I still resent, punished for punching ( several times) a kid that called my foster sister a ****ing dirty Paki bitch.
The kid got sympathy, I got caned.

My sister, who was in fact Indian by birth, was once clalled a Paki by a deputy Head Teacher.

Thank God we've moved on from that type of behavior (I hope). The dinner ticket fiddling made me laugh though