[Misc] Old fashion school injustices

[Birdie Boy]

Was it Watson?

That's the one.

 

[withdeanwombat]

When my dad left the army he was set up for an interview as a p.e instructor at a private school.

It went well. On the point of being offered the job, the headmaster asked him to cane a pillow to show how hard he would hit the pupils.

“ I don’t hit children “ he said.

Got up. Walked out.

 

[Lankyseagull]

At secondary school in the early 80's you had to develop quick reflexes to avoid the wooden chalk board rubber luzzed towards your head.

I'm sure the teachers must have had some competition on the go & probably logged 'hits' on a chart in the staffroom.

 

[Weststander]

Yes of course there are those that will go that way, but I suggest it was a very small minority. We will never live in a perfect world.

Lack of discipline these days results in more problems overall, again just imo.

School isn’t the problem. I glad teachers and heads do not have the right to touch kids. Bias, subjectivity, hitting with temper are all inevitable, whilst guilty favourite kids get away with it.

Weak, over indulgent parents produce the brats who disrupt school and often go on to act criminally.

 

[Baldseagull]

When my dad left the army he was set up for an interview as a p.e instructor at a private school.

It went well. On the point of being offered the job, the headmaster asked him to cane a pillow to show how hard he would hit the pupils.

“ I don’t hit children “ he said.

Got up. Walked out.

Should have asked the Head to bend over and take it himself if he really wanted to know.

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

Teaching was clearly a different bag when most of you were at school. Having done the teaching thing for four years recently, I would say it's gone too far the other way. Teachers have absolutely no power and students basically get to do what they want. I do not envy any teacher in England - it's a horrid job.

 

[Bakero]

Teaching was clearly a different bag when most of you were at school. Having done the teaching thing for four years recently, I would say it's gone too far the other way. Teachers have absolutely no power and students basically get to do what they want. I do not envy any teacher in England - it's a horrid job.

What do you mean by 'done the teaching thing?'

 

[Toby Le Rone]

Eastbourne Grammar School

Blimey, I remember Bodge Mallen, I was there 1969-76. There was also Morse, the German master and Owen, the Deputy Headmaster. Morse was a sadist and would take a run-up when administering a slippering. Owen would stand over you and say "Boy, I am going to turn you into a Triceratops" and then proceed to whack you on the top of your head, three times, with his closed fist. On one occasion, he hit one of my classmates so hard that the boy passed-out.

There was karma for Bodge Mallen. One day, as he was cutting wood with a circular saw, he was distracted when two classmates started scuffling. Bodge cut his thumb clean off. Plenty of blood ensued. Bodge remained calm and asked one of the boys to pick his thumb up from the sawdust-laden floor. Bodge returned to school the next day with a big leather pouch over his re-attached thumb. He had been a prisoner of war and was as hard as nails.

Happy days!

Eastbourne Grammar 1975/6.
assembly, winter time, i placed some holly onto the head masters chair. little shit in year 3 stitched me up and i got the cane in front of the school.

bodge mallin (woodwork teacher) would hit us over the head for sky larking in his lessons with a 3 wood golf club.

economics teacher (Ronnie Ladbrook) would launch a black board duster at full force at our heads, duck and lift lid of desk was the appropriate move, if you were quick enough.

deep joy

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

What do you mean by 'done the teaching thing?'

Isn't that pretty self explanatory? I was a teacher for four years...

 

[Bakero]

Isn't that pretty self explanatory? I was a teacher for four years...

Primary? Secondary? Tertiary? State? Comprehensive? Grammar? Private? UK? Abroad? What subject?

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

Primary? Secondary? Tertiary? State? Comprehensive? Grammar? Private? UK? Abroad? What subject?

Secondary predominately. Mainly state. All UK. And GCSE and A-levels subjects like law, business, economics etc

 

[BigGully]

With the children who continue to push the boundaries, first and foremost it is important to understand the wider context, especially their home lives. It's a cliche but most children who are 'naughty' don't have the best home lives. .

I am not sure I am totally with you on that, especially in the primary age group.

I have always found that the truly disruptive pupils are likely to have genuine special needs, they're simply incapable of conforming to any 'usual' school behaviour requirements.

Then those that are/become 'naughty' are not necessarily from those with dysfunctional or even neglectful backgrounds, more likely to become withdrawn perhaps but in many cases they can be quite astonishingly bright, polite and kind, although it becomes a bit of an obstacle course for them to remain that way as they progress into the later years of their schooling.

In many cases I think those that are wilfully 'naughty' usually come from quite 'normal' backgrounds, perhaps the parenting of those kids are questionable, but basically they learn to be rude or disruptive within the confines of their own comfortable home, even then thankfully most mature into decent young boys and girls, so as has been said today's school's are generally full of committed and wonderfully skilled teachers (of which it seems you are one of them) and well behaved and hard working pupils and more importantly is a secure and safe place to learn.

 

[Dancin Ninja BHA]

Not physical violence (I was born in 1974, so JUST missed out the caning discipline of yesteryear) but I'll never forget my friend Andy at primary school in about 1981 saying a perceived rude word ('bum') and the teacher making him wash his mouth out with soap and water!!

Proper bubbles in the mouth and everything. Could you imagine the uproar now....

 

[midnight_rendezvous]

I am not sure I am totally with you on that, especially in the primary age group.

I have always found that the truly disruptive pupils are likely to have genuine special needs, they're simply incapable of conforming to any 'usual' school behaviour requirements.

Then those that are/become 'naughty' are not necessarily from those with dysfunctional or even neglectful backgrounds, more likely to become withdrawn perhaps but in many cases they can be quite astonishingly bright, polite and kind, although it becomes a bit of an obstacle course for them to remain that way as they progress into the later years of their schooling.

In many cases I think those that are wilfully 'naughty' usually come from quite 'normal' backgrounds, perhaps the parenting of those kids are questionable, but basically they learn to be rude or disruptive within the confines of their own comfortable home, even then thankfully most mature into decent young boys and girls, so as has been said today's school's are generally full of committed and wonderfully skilled teachers (of which it seems you are one of them) and well behaved and hard working pupils and more importantly is a secure and safe place to learn.

Of course I generalise based on my own experiences of working in primary and the experiences of my co-workers. I have taught a variety of SEN children and, luckily, they haven’t been too disruptive. I’ve had a few challenging autistic children in my time but, again, I’ve managed to build bonds with them and I know their triggers and can plan ahead accordingly.

The most challenging child I have ever had (having desks and chairs thrown at me, being called a c*nt etc) was a child whose parents weren’t neglectful in the physical sense (food, shelter, clothes) but very much so in the emotional sense. He had all sorts of underlying issues all because of his home life. By forming a close relationship with him he steadily started to get better until one day, whilst I was on PPA l, he had a melt down which eventually saw him hit the deputy head teacher and after that he was expelled. I was, and still am absolutely gutted, as I can’t help but feel if I had been three I could have prevented it. But I digress.

I think you summarise it perfectly with your last sentence, most children given a safe and secure place to learn with caring staff around them will thrive.

 

[Weststander]

I am not sure I am totally with you on that, especially in the primary age group.

I have always found that the truly disruptive pupils are likely to have genuine special needs, they're simply incapable of conforming to any 'usual' school behaviour requirements.

Then those that are/become 'naughty' are not necessarily from those with dysfunctional or even neglectful backgrounds, more likely to become withdrawn perhaps but in many cases they can be quite astonishingly bright, polite and kind, although it becomes a bit of an obstacle course for them to remain that way as they progress into the later years of their schooling.

In many cases I think those that are wilfully 'naughty' usually come from quite 'normal' backgrounds, perhaps the parenting of those kids are questionable, but basically they learn to be rude or disruptive within the confines of their own comfortable home, even then thankfully most mature into decent young boys and girls, so as has been said today's school's are generally full of committed and wonderfully skilled teachers (of which it seems you are one of them) and well behaved and hard working pupils and more importantly is a secure and safe place to learn.

Disruptive kids come from homes where they are neglected, or as you say from parents who over indulge and can see no wrong in their beloved offspring. But also kids with learning needs such as Dyslexia and Dyspraxia, leading to them stressing and failing to concentrate - even now, schools spot these far too late, many years too late.

 

[BigGully]

Disruptive kids come from homes where they are neglected, or as you say from parents who over indulge and can see no wrong in their beloved offspring. But also kids with learning needs such as Dyslexia and Dyspraxia, leading to them stressing and failing to concentrate - even now, schools spot these far too late, many years too late.

I don't totally agree with your last bit, there are many schools that have associated SEN centres within the normal school structure, the consequence can be that some of the children that have quite debilitating issues that might cause some disruption even with a 'one to one' whilst becoming part of the overall school environment, I am not sure these should be seen as 'naughty'.

I see kids in schools now that we never saw when I was at school, I assume those children were shipped out to 'special schools' and although I suspect that it is a money saving policy in many ways it is quite amazing to see how some children with quite challenging behaviour due to their individual needs are so accepted and tolerated by the mainstream pupils that are non judgemental of them, I think that is a good thing.

I don't think the schools spot them too late, in many cases they are identified but it might be a tricky situation scientifically and on a personal level to diagnose/confirm too early to a parent that might not accept a perceived negative view of their child, similarly there are parents that strive for an early diagnoses for various reasons even if there is no obvious indication of a problem.

 

[zefarelly]

You said it yourself already, parents Instill the basics and moral code. Or not, that is the problem. Teachers cannot back that up in a modern 'soft' 'politically correct' society. Pastoral care staff at local school to us have admitted they can change children for the better and see remarkable change, until they go home and it's undone in an evening. . . We're at least 3 generations into A decaying society in some areas.

Do you really believe it’s better though? Instilling discipline both academically and physically or mentally for me was/should be the primary function of a school.

It establishes and reinforces the moral code you should be taught by your parents and delivered the right sort of upbringing into a world which is increasingly harsh.

Your generation achieved some phenomenal things as a result of that way of schooling and sadly having only joined secondary school in 91 most of that had already been lost.

Fast forward to today and kids don’t learn in most schools half of what they should simply because they know there aren’t really any consequences if they don’t.

I’m not saying kids should have things thrown at them or walloped if they step out of line but teachers these days can barely raise their voices without fear of losing their jobs and kids are wise to it in the extreme.

I really worry about today’s generation pushing on in the world without having any sense of fear or responsibility for their actions. It’s all so soft and namby pamby.



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[Weststander]

I don't totally agree with your last bit, there are many schools that have associated SEN centres within the normal school structure, the consequence can be that some of the children that have quite debilitating issues that might cause some disruption even with a 'one to one' whilst becoming part of the overall school environment, I am not sure these should be seen as 'naughty'.

I see kids in schools now that we never saw when I was at school, I assume those children were shipped out to 'special schools' and although I suspect that it is a money saving policy in many ways it is quite amazing to see how some children with quite challenging behaviour due to their individual needs are so accepted and tolerated by the mainstream pupils that are non judgemental of them, I think that is a good thing.

I don't think the schools spot them too late, in many cases they are identified but it might be a tricky situation scientifically and on a personal level to diagnose/confirm too early to a parent that might not accept a perceived negative view of their child, similarly there are parents that strive for an early diagnoses for various reasons even if there is no obvious indication of a problem.

I have first hand experience with family, Dyslexia diagnosed at age 15 last November, with huge apologies from the school. The educational psychologist and the school admitted that it should've have been picked up by age 9. Imagine that, just 7 months from life changing GCSE exams, explaining the academic struggles and classroom distraction that had gone on for years. The same with two family friends.

But I do agree that the SEN experts and school counsellors try to do a great job.

Before anyone jumps in about resources/politics, it's not the key point in these cases, because state and independent schools were involved.

 

[junior]

The only blackboard rubbers that got thrown at us were wooden backed ones with a cloth base, bloody hurt if you got a direct hit too. Made you a bit dusty too from all the chalk on them.

That's the sort I'm talking about!

 

[erkan]

Before anyone jumps in about resources/politics, it's not the key point in these cases, because state and independent schools were involved.

Chronic underfunding of state education is hardly likely to have helped though, is it?

Returning to the theme of the thread, much of the worst child abuse (and general incompetence) was found in the less regulated private sector.



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