Official Running Thread

[Deleted member 2719]

Maffetone expert [MENTION=19889]Butch Willykins[/MENTION] do you have an update please?

I have started to follow the MAF180 and seen my vo2 max plummet from superior 49 to 43, I can not remember it this low before. I had a dip last spring when I think I had covid or some similar lung respiration virus.

I assume this is all good? I feel like I can do so much further distance-wise, but that isn't my bag.

How do I know when I can start to turn up the heat, or can't I?

 

[big nuts]

Is this the page you use? http://www.howardgrubb.co.uk/athletics/wmalookup06.html

It says:

5km - 75.25%
10km - 76.42%

My mile best is pretty ordinary - 69.94% - but that was one mile out of 6.22. I've never tried to run a single mile test.

I’ve given you a 1 mile target of 5:27 based on my time trial today. 7 seconds behind my PB but probably a fair representation of where I am currently.

Based on current form, you may well have the edge on me currently. A very impressive 10k time.

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

Can I just check, is June the 5th an official date for Parkrun, obviously assuming the trend covid cases continues to drop?

If so I might just do a few this year.

Yep: been 'officially' informed - but NSC hears these things first!

 

[dazzer6666]

Yep: been 'officially' informed - but NSC hears these things first!

It’s in the park run blog on their website......was on their FB page yesterday too

https://blog.parkrun.com/uk/2021/02...XVRUCI9d3YNnPBMa1DGuayBjj4g1P4DG81IKvAy3Ndu8c

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

Maffetone expert [MENTION=19889]Butch Willykins[/MENTION] do you have an update please?

I have started to follow the MAF180 and seen my vo2 max plummet from superior 49 to 43, I can not remember it this low before. I had a dip last spring when I think I had covid or some similar lung respiration virus.

I assume this is all good? I feel like I can do so much further distance-wise, but that isn't my bag.

How do I know when I can start to turn up the heat, or can't I?

I think we need an NSC boffin for this and that's certainly not me. Measuring V02 isn't simple and there are a number of different calculators out there. But if you are using the same calculation method all the time (i.e the testing method is a constant) then that looks to me to be a pretty significant drop. Obviously aging is a key variable, but that should - all other things being equal - be a very gradual decline.

One 'interesting' thing to do is to cross reference between sports. I'm about 44 for running and have over the past 6 months or so, started rowing. I've got no technique and I'm not built like a rower, but my times for 2k (the standard length for rowing events, on water and on machines) is more or less 44 too. I'm not sure what this proves but it was kind of reassuring.

There's loads of links for improving your Vo2 out there and even specific drills for that purpose. Can't point.to a definitive one, but a google search will uncover quite a few. I've got a feeling they all have a common denominator: hard graft.

I wonder if anyone on the thread has ever been properly (lab) tested? In simple terms, there's such a clear correlation between Vo2 and running times that if you improve the latter, the former will take care of itself?

 

[Artie Fufkin]

It’s in the park run blog on their website......was on their FB page yesterday too

https://blog.parkrun.com/uk/2021/02...XVRUCI9d3YNnPBMa1DGuayBjj4g1P4DG81IKvAy3Ndu8c

This made me chuckle this morning

https://twitter.com/callumrowlinson/status/1365300772192325637

 

[knocky1]

I think we need an NSC boffin for this and that's certainly not me. Measuring V02 isn't simple and there are a number of different calculators out there. But if you are using the same calculation method all the time (i.e the testing method is a constant) then that looks to me to be a pretty significant drop. Obviously aging is a key variable, but that should - all other things being equal - be a very gradual decline.

One 'interesting' thing to do is to cross reference between sports. I'm about 44 for running and have over the past 6 months or so, started rowing. I've got no technique and I'm not built like a rower, but my times for 2k (the standard length for rowing events, on water and on machines) is more or less 44 too. I'm not sure what this proves but it was kind of reassuring.

There's loads of links for improving your Vo2 out there and even specific drills for that purpose. Can't point.to a definitive one, but a google search will uncover quite a few. I've got a feeling they all have a common denominator: hard graft.

I wonder if anyone on the thread has ever been properly (lab) tested? In simple terms, there's such a clear correlation between Vo2 and running times that if you improve the latter, the former will take care of itself?

I had my VO2 research test booked at Brighton University March 22 2021. It was cancelled.
I

 

[Butch Willykins]

Maffetone expert [MENTION=19889]Butch Willykins[/MENTION] do you have an update please?

I have started to follow the MAF180 and seen my vo2 max plummet from superior 49 to 43, I can not remember it this low before. I had a dip last spring when I think I had covid or some similar lung respiration virus.

I assume this is all good? I feel like I can do so much further distance-wise, but that isn't my bag.

How do I know when I can start to turn up the heat, or can't I?

Haha, I’m no expert, only 8 weeks into MAF.

I’m try get a MAF test in and an update on here in next few days so watch this space. However, yes my VO2 took a bashing, but it’s creeping back up slowly.

 

[dazzer6666]

I think we need an NSC boffin for this and that's certainly not me. Measuring V02 isn't simple and there are a number of different calculators out there. But if you are using the same calculation method all the time (i.e the testing method is a constant) then that looks to me to be a pretty significant drop. Obviously aging is a key variable, but that should - all other things being equal - be a very gradual decline.

One 'interesting' thing to do is to cross reference between sports. I'm about 44 for running and have over the past 6 months or so, started rowing. I've got no technique and I'm not built like a rower, but my times for 2k (the standard length for rowing events, on water and on machines) is more or less 44 too. I'm not sure what this proves but it was kind of reassuring.

There's loads of links for improving your Vo2 out there and even specific drills for that purpose. Can't point.to a definitive one, but a google search will uncover quite a few. I've got a feeling they all have a common denominator: hard graft.

I wonder if anyone on the thread has ever been properly (lab) tested? In simple terms, there's such a clear correlation between Vo2 and running times that if you improve the latter, the former will take care of itself?

Watches will clearly only give you an estimated vo2 max and they’re not very accurate at all at the top end. I’ve been lab-tested a few times, both at the Uni as part of a few study groups, and annually during my company medical. Even the tests they normally do during the medical where you’re fully rigged up to the exhaled breath-measuring kit etc only estimate vo2 max as they only stress you to 80% of expected MHR (they don’t want heart attacks during the exams ). During my last medical the guy doing it happened to be a runner so we’d had a good chat, and when it came to the vo2 test he asked if I wanted to ‘push past the 80% to a full test’. We did that, so we could compare the estimated vo2 max at 80% with the actual result at max - the estimated was quite a bit lower, but the actual was consistent with other tests I’d done where we went to full max vo2.

An actual full test is pretty nasty.....basically 3 mins on a tready at warm up, 3 mins at just below lactate threshold pace then 3 mins just above LT pace (think of 5k pace roughly), after which the treadmill elevates by 1% every minute and you keep going until you can’t continue- only full minutes count.

My limited understanding of how to improve is that you basically need a combination of training - both aerobic and hard, anaerobic stuff.

 

[knocky1]

My Mum trained as an opera singer as a young woman. I believe having her lungs, diaphragm and breathing control are a great anaerobic asset to have. I’m a �� singer though.
She smoked over 40 a day all her adult life and when she had a lung removed at 76 speed walked 3 miles, including up Bear Road, a week later for a breathing test, where she had to walk at snail pace on a treadmill.

 

[soistes]

According to my Garmin watch stats, my “expected 5k time” is 19:35.

Because I’m a Brighton fan, however, in practice I can rarely run a 5k in under 22 min.

Just saying.

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

Watches will clearly only give you an estimated vo2 max and they’re not very accurate at all at the top end. I’ve been lab-tested a few times, both at the Uni as part of a few study groups, and annually during my company medical. Even the tests they normally do during the medical where you’re fully rigged up to the exhaled breath-measuring kit etc only estimate vo2 max as they only stress you to 80% of expected MHR (they don’t want heart attacks during the exams ). During my last medical the guy doing it happened to be a runner so we’d had a good chat, and when it came to the vo2 test he asked if I wanted to ‘push past the 80% to a full test’. We did that, so we could compare the estimated vo2 max at 80% with the actual result at max - the estimated was quite a bit lower, but the actual was consistent with other tests I’d done where we went to full max vo2.

An actual full test is pretty nasty.....basically 3 mins on a tready at warm up, 3 mins at just below lactate threshold pace then 3 mins just above LT pace (think of 5k pace roughly), after which the treadmill elevates by 1% every minute and you keep going until you can’t continue- only full minutes count.

My limited understanding of how to improve is that you basically need a combination of training - both aerobic and hard, anaerobic stuff.

Thanks. Very informative, but on the strength of your report I don't think folk will be queueing up to take a 'proper' test.

 

[dazzer6666]

Thanks. Very informative, but on the strength of your report I don't think folk will be queueing up to take a 'proper' test.

It’s quite nasty..........one of the sessions I did they had a bucket ready beside the treadmill

Quite a few on youtube

https://youtu.be/5vo1drLk_sE

Including from Reading

https://youtu.be/Ad_sN6Vjt4E

 

[Deleted member 2719]

I think we need an NSC boffin for this and that's certainly not me. Measuring V02 isn't simple and there are a number of different calculators out there. But if you are using the same calculation method all the time (i.e the testing method is a constant) then that looks to me to be a pretty significant drop. Obviously aging is a key variable, but that should - all other things being equal - be a very gradual decline.

One 'interesting' thing to do is to cross reference between sports. I'm about 44 for running and have over the past 6 months or so, started rowing. I've got no technique and I'm not built like a rower, but my times for 2k (the standard length for rowing events, on water and on machines) is more or less 44 too. I'm not sure what this proves but it was kind of reassuring.

There's loads of links for improving your Vo2 out there and even specific drills for that purpose. Can't point.to a definitive one, but a google search will uncover quite a few. I've got a feeling they all have a common denominator: hard graft.

I wonder if anyone on the thread has ever been properly (lab) tested? In simple terms, there's such a clear correlation between Vo2 and running times that if you improve the latter, the former will take care of itself?

I got to 49 through pushing it hard every run some run proper run to I drop or near to it. Hit my Last Pb the Feb had a covid like a virus mid-march, and every time I pushed hard afterward my HR was pushing above 100% regularly.
So I decided to run to HR and started the Maffetone 180 a few weeks back and since then, the slower pace has majorly affected my VO2, I suppose it had to as I am up to 25% off my best pace.

I have never done rowing apart from in the gym! I loved it though, I have done many raft races over the years, and the team work and balance of the raft was crucial i felt, just one weak member and it would be hell going sideways!

Haha, I’m no expert, only 8 weeks into MAF.

I’m try get a MAF test in and an update on here in next few days so watch this space. However, yes my VO2 took a bashing, but it’s creeping back up slowly.

Sorry, I am not having it you are the Maf Guru.

Come on get those results up!

Incidentally, are you following the diet strictly or at all?

 

[dazzer6666]

I got to 49 through pushing it hard every run some run proper run to I drop or near to it. Hit my Last Pb the Feb had a covid like a virus mid-march, and every time I pushed hard afterward my HR was pushing above 100% regularly.
So I decided to run to HR and started the Maffetone 180 a few weeks back and since then, the slower pace has majorly affected my VO2, I suppose it had to as I am up to 25% off my best pace.

I have never done rowing apart from in the gym! I loved it though, I have done many raft races over the years, and the team work and balance of the raft was crucial i felt, just one weak member and it would be hell going sideways!



Sorry, I am not having it you are the Maf Guru.

Come on get those results up!

Incidentally, are you following the diet strictly or at all?

My ‘official’ VO2 max is around 54-56 (results from last 4 full tests have all been in that range so there is some consistency, ‘estimated’ from 80%MHR was 49)......I was told the amount of long-distance running I do would have made the difference opposed to someone (my age) who only did lower distances but the same amount of increased effort. Aerobic endurance, apparently.

I’m still a lardy, middle-aged, mid-pack plodder. ....but on the VO2 AG scale I’m at/near the top apparently

 

[Deleted member 2719]

My ‘official’ VO2 max is around 54-56 (results from last 4 full tests have all been in that range so there is some consistency, ‘estimated’ from 80%MHR was 49)......I was told the amount of long-distance running I do would have made the difference opposed to someone (my age) who only did lower distances but the same amount of increased effort. Aerobic endurance, apparently.

I’m still a lardy, middle-aged, mid-pack plodder. ....but on the VO2 AG scale I’m at/near the top apparently

Because you are at the top end, do you think you could be overtraining and pushing your heart too hard?

 

[dazzer6666]

Because you are at the top end, do you think you could be overtraining and pushing your heart too hard?

Not a clue

 

[Deleted member 2719]

Not a clue

And don't care.

 

[knocky1]

You're on fire but don't burn out.

Despite the high of anaerobic running, I'm holding back with excessive rest and recovery. 2 full days off before the mile run, 3 needed days off afterwards and these followed by an extra day today as I had the jab this morning and need to be cautious with my : immune system.

I am going to go again in 7 days for the British Master's 1 Mile Virtual Challenge. So a few short interval sessions this week before an attempt at sub 6. I post that here for motivation as anything over will be a failure.

I need [MENTION=18183]big nuts[/MENTION] to tell me if PP velodrome would be a good place for the effort. I quite like Madeira Drive as plenty of space and you can aim at objects in the distance but if the velodrome offers bounce I'll take it.

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

Despite the high of anaerobic running, I'm holding back with excessive rest and recovery. 2 full days off before the mile run, 3 needed days off afterwards and these followed by an extra day today as I had the jab this morning and need to be cautious with my : immune system.

I am going to go again in 7 days for the British Master's 1 Mile Virtual Challenge. So a few short interval sessions this week before an attempt at sub 6. I post that here for motivation as anything over will be a failure.

I need [MENTION=18183]big nuts[/MENTION] to tell me if PP velodrome would be a good place for the effort. I quite like Madeira Drive as plenty of space and you can aim at objects in the distance but if the velodrome offers bounce I'll take it.

Whist I know [MENTION=18183]big nuts[/MENTION] has done great things at the velodrome, I can't stop myself from advising caution. I had a 'mare there but that was a 72 times around marathon and naturally I was running the inside line. Perhaps further out to the perimeter is less harsh? All I would do, then, is advise that you go and have a recce. Run a couple of laps and get the feel of it. It would never be my choice for a PB.

I had my jab Friday and was happily bombing along the seafront early the next day but we are all different. My older son (not the runner) who has really serious problems with his immune system was wrecked for a day or so.

Keep posting!