Official Running Thread

[dazzer6666]

Thanks chaps.

I meant to say it was 175m of elevation, it was the Swindon half, my local one. So thanks for the suggestions, I'll definitely try to find some events more local to here as a warm up. I'm looking to do a bit of cross country over the winter, though the distances aren't quite enough for the marathon prep but I guess will help with speed and strength.

I was struggling in the last 5km, and was starting to get over taken rather than overtaking. However, since I failed to slow myself to the 4:30/km pace for the first few, it kind of evened out to the pace I was after overall and the adrenalin got me through.

My 5km pace is under 4:00/km, so I think my endurance is letting me down at the moment and not achieving the times I possibly should as I increase the distances. 3:20 sounds like a decent target to set myself.

General rule of thumb is half time x 2 plus 20 mins for a marathon target if that helps. Obviously need to start building some longer runs into your programme, but don't neglect the speedwork - keep doing 5k runs and hard efforts up to an hour etc.

 

[El Presidente]

How's your Achilles by the way?

A lot better thanks. I'm doing daily exercises on it, ran a PB for 10k at Ormskirk today and starting structured training for the Brighton marathon. Considering how I loathed running at school 40 years ago can't believe how I enjoy it now.

 

[dazzer6666]

A lot better thanks. I'm doing daily exercises on it, ran a PB for 10k at Ormskirk today and starting structured training for the Brighton marathon. Considering how I loathed running at school 40 years ago can't believe how I enjoy it now.

Awww, with you there. Would do all I could to cheat/avoid/excuse at school, now get annoyed if I can't run (30 odd years later).

 

[chimneys]

General rule of thumb is half time x 2 plus 20 mins for a marathon target if that helps.

I think that's about spot on! My half pb in April was 1'33. Double and add 20 mins would be 3'26. My best marathon was my 3rd and last (Brighton 2012) at 3'27. However McMillan race predictor says my marathon time should be 3'15-3'17 with my half/10k/5k times.

Feels like I have unfinished business but promised my joints (and wife/kids) I will give up that selfish pursuit and stick to less training intensive shorter distances!

 

[dazzer6666]

I think that's about spot on! My half pb in April was 1'33. Double and add 20 mins would be 3'26. My best marathon was my 3rd and last (Brighton 2012) at 3'27. However McMillan race predictor says my marathon time should be 3'15-3'17 with my half/10k/5k times.

Feels like I have unfinished business but promised my joints (and wife/kids) I will give up that selfish pursuit and stick to less training intensive shorter distances!

Interesting. Most of my running pals/contacts find Macmillan a bit ambitious......but I think most of us tend to focus on long runs as the key element of training and neglect speed work. Most of the faster runners and coaches I chat with focus more on fast runs and intervals to improve marathon times, not lots of long runs.

 

[chimneys]

Interesting. Most of my running pals/contacts find Macmillan a bit ambitious......but I think most of us tend to focus on long runs as the key element of training and neglect speed work. Most of the faster runners and coaches I chat with focus more on fast runs and intervals to improve marathon times, not lots of long runs.

Agreed, but you still need 5 or 6 16-20 milers in run up to marathon and that's quite a lot of commitment timewise.

 

[Curious Orange]

First half marathon completed today, pretty chuffed with it. Was aiming for 4:30/km pace and that's pretty much exactly what I ran to end up with a chip time of 1:35 on the dot. Strava reports the run as having 175m.

Now need to up the distance in preparation for Brighton!

That's very impressive first time out, well done! I hope I do as well in my next half marathon.

 

[Greg Bobkin]

First half marathon completed today, pretty chuffed with it. Was aiming for 4:30/km pace and that's pretty much exactly what I ran to end up with a chip time of 1:35 on the dot. Strava reports the run as having 175m.

Now need to up the distance in preparation for Brighton!

Great running. Good luck for upping the distance.

I completed my own half marathon distance yesterday morning (Shoreham-by-Sea to Brighton and back again), but got a huge pain in my groin/hip, which made the last two miles agony. Seems ok this morning, but not run on it yet. I'll test it out tomorrow.

 

[Bad Ash]

Agreed, but you still need 5 or 6 16-20 milers in run up to marathon and that's quite a lot of commitment timewise.

Would that be roughly one long run every week in the 2 months beforehand, with a 2 week taper?

Legs are a bit of a mess this morning. This is one of the reasons I tend to avoid running, as after a long hard session it takes me days to recover. I guess that's mainly because I don't slowly build up the distances.

 

[dazzer6666]

Agreed, but you still need 5 or 6 16-20 milers in run up to marathon and that's quite a lot of commitment timewise.

Theory seems to be changing a bit on this now - higher intensity runs in the 12-14 bracket etc.

 

[chimneys]

Would that be roughly one long run every week in the 2 months beforehand, with a 2 week taper?

Legs are a bit of a mess this morning. This is one of the reasons I tend to avoid running, as after a long hard session it takes me days to recover. I guess that's mainly because I don't slowly build up the distances.

Not every week, but prob 2 out of 3 in 2 months leading up. Mix it up with maybe a 10k or half race or two. That said, build up from 12 to 14 to 16 etc. Don't go straight out and do a 20!

And definitely a 2 week taper and be strict about it. You cant improve your potential performance in last 2 weeks before a marathon but you can most certainly do damage if you don't have a decent taper.

Not surprised your legs are shot. That was a great time and you will need time to recover! Now you are in race shape try to keep the running going over the winter (mixing up distances/speedwork) and you should be in great shape come Brighton.

 

[chimneys]

Theory seems to be changing a bit on this now - higher intensity runs in the 12-14 bracket etc.

Would that be more for very decent runners with long distance races under their belts? Were I a novice, psychologically I would want to know I had the distance (less say a 10K) in the locker as well as the legs, rather than be into the unknown with 12 or more miles to go.

 

[dazzer6666]

Would that be more for very decent runners with long distance races under their belts? Were I a novice, psychologically I would want to know I had the distance (less say a 10K) in the locker as well as the legs, rather than be into the unknown with 12 or more miles to go.

Completely agree on the psychological point.......although this isn't necessarily for the racing snakes, more anyone who wants to improve their time. So many different theories and views.......this is quite an interesting read as a starter.

http://running.competitor.com/2013/10/training/a-short-cut-to-the-long-run_32317

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Would that be roughly one long run every week in the 2 months beforehand, with a 2 week taper?

Legs are a bit of a mess this morning. This is one of the reasons I tend to avoid running, as after a long hard session it takes me days to recover. I guess that's mainly because I don't slowly build up the distances.

It really depends on what time you're aiming for. I'm training for 3:15 in 3 weeks time and the last two months (leading up to the two week taper which starts on Sunday) have had a 20 miler each week apart from 2 half-marathons during that time to break it up. I'll dig out my schedule and post it on here later to give you an idea.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Would that be roughly one long run every week in the 2 months beforehand, with a 2 week taper?

Legs are a bit of a mess this morning. This is one of the reasons I tend to avoid running, as after a long hard session it takes me days to recover. I guess that's mainly because I don't slowly build up the distances.

And don't worry about your pins. You pretty much always give it more during the race you've been training for.

 

[Indurain's Lungs]

First half marathon completed today, pretty chuffed with it. Was aiming for 4:30/km pace and that's pretty much exactly what I ran to end up with a chip time of 1:35 on the dot. Strava reports the run as having 175m.

Now need to up the distance in preparation for Brighton!

Great work BA. I've been watching your progress with interest given the cycling/running cross over.

I presume you're still keeping up a reasonable number of cycling miles throughout the marathon training?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

It really depends on what time you're aiming for. I'm training for 3:15 in 3 weeks time and the last two months (leading up to the two week taper which starts on Sunday) have had a 20 miler each week apart from 2 half-marathons during that time to break it up. I'll dig out my schedule and post it on here later to give you an idea.

Here you go

RW's Ultimate Marathon Schedule: Sub-3:15


A 3:15 marathon is approximately 7:20 per mile. To break 3:15, you should eventually be capable of a sub-1:30 half-marathon (6:50 per mile) and sub-40:00 10K (6:30 per mile). Right now, you should be running at least 30-35 miles per week, over six sessions.

For The Month Ahead...

Your Goal A sub-40:00 10K or sub-32:00 5-mile race (Week 4). More...
Your Theme You build your base. More...


Week One (34M)
Mon 4M (approx 35 mins) easy
Tue 4M (33 mins) slow with a few gentle strides
Wed 5M (40 mins) slow
Thu 4M (30 mins) steady
Fri Rest
Sat 5M (42 mins) easy or parkrun
Sun 12M (100 mins) slow
Week Two (41M)
Mon 4M (35 mins) easy
Tue 9M of 1.5M jog and strides, then 3 x 2M (or 13 mins) fast, with 400m (3-min) jog recoveries, then 1M jog
Wed 6M (50 mins) slow
Thu 1M jog, then 2M (approx 14 mins) brisk, then 1M jog
Fri Rest
Sat 5M (42 mins) easy or parkrun
Sun 13M (108 mins) slow

Week Three (46M)
Mon 4M (35 mins) easy
Tue 9M of 1M jog, then 4 x 1M (or 6 mins) fast, with 400m (2-min) jog recoveries, then 1M jog
Wed 7M (56 mins) slow
Thu 6M (45 mins) steady
Fri Rest
Sat 5M (42 mins) easy or parkrun
Sun 15M (2:05) slow

Week Four (37M)
Mon 4M (35 mins) easy
Tue 9M of 1M jog, then 7 x 800m (or 3 mins) fast, with 200m (1-min) jog recoveries, then 1M jog
Wed 8M (65 mins) slow
Thu 1M jog, then 4M (26 mins) brisk, then 1M jog
Fri Rest
Sat 5M (42 mins) easy
Sun 8M of 1M jog and strides, then race 10K or 5M, then 1M jog. Aim for a sub-40:00 10K or sub-32:00 5-miler

For The Month Ahead...

Your Goal Complete a run of around 2 hours 40 mins (Week 7). More...
Your Theme You add volume and speed. More...
Week Five (49M)
Mon 4M (35 mins) easy
Tue 7M of 1M jog, then 5M (or 40 mins) fartlek, then 1M jog
Wed 9M (75 mins) slow
Thu 8M of 1M jog, out and back run -3M steady in 23, then turn, 3M fast in 20, then 1M jog
Fri Rest
Sat 5M (42 mins) easy or parkrun
Sun 16M (2:15) slow

Week Six (50M)
Mon 4M (35 mins) easy
Tue 7M of 1M jog, then 10 x 2 mins up hill, jog back. Then 1M jog at end of session
Wed 10M (80 mins) slow
Thu 1M jog, then 4M (29 mins) brisk, then 1M jog
Fri Rest
Sat 5M (42 mins) easy or parkrun
Sun 18M (2hrs 30) slow

Week Seven (53M)
Mon 4M (35 mins) easy
Tue 7M of 1M jog and strides, then 12 x 400, with 200m (1-min 30) jog recoveries, then 1M jog
Wed 11M (90 mins) slow
Thu 8M (60 mins) steady
Fri Rest
Sat 5M (42 mins) easy or parkrun
Sun 20M (2 hrs 45) slow

Week Eight (39M)
Mon Rest
Tue 6M of 1M jog and strides, then 15 x 200, with 200m (1-min) jog recoveries, then 1M jog
Wed 9M (70 mins) slow
Thu 1M jog, then 3M (20 mins) brisk, then 1M jog
Fri Rest
Sat 4M (33 mins) easy
Sun Race (ideally half-marathon) or brisk run (15M inc warmup/ cool down)

For The Month Ahead...

Your Goal A sub-1:30 half-marathon (Week 10). More...
Your Theme You reach your highest mileage. More...
Note that the ‘approximate’ targets for training sessions are exactly that, especially on longer runs. By now, your training and racing should be giving you a clearer idea of your marathon (steady) and half-marathon (brisk) paces. Also, the times in the Tuesday speed sessions are alternatives to the distances, rather than targets. You should be running them as fast yet evenly as you can; roughly between 5K and 10K pace.

Week Nine (50M)
Mon Rest
Tue 8M of 1M jog and strides, then 12 x 2mins up hill, jog back. Then 1M jog at end of session
Wed 8M (65 mins) slow
Thu 9M (66 mins) steady
Fri Rest
Sat 5M (42 mins) easy or parkrun
Sun 20M (2hrs 45) slow

Week Ten (45M)
Mon 4M (35 mins) easy
Tue 1M jog, then 3 x 2M (or 12 mins) fast, with 400m (or 2-min) jog recoveries, then 1M jog
Wed 9M (75 mins) slow
Thu 6M of 1M jog, then 4M (28 mins) brisk, then 1M jog
Fri Rest
Sat 3M (25 mins) easy
Sun Half-marathon Aim for sub-1:30 (15M inc warm up and cool down)

Week Eleven (55M)
Mon Rest
Tue 8M of 1M jog, 6M (or 50 mins) fartlek, then 1M jog
Wed 7M (58 mins) slow
Thu 10M (approx 75 mins) steady
Fri Rest
Sat 5M (42 mins) easy or parkrun
Sun 20M (approx 2hrs 45) slow

Week Twelve (55M)
Mon 4M (35 mins) easy
Tue 8M of 1M jog and strides, 5 x 1M (or 6 mins) fast with 200m (or 1-min) jog recoveries, then 1M jog
Wed 10M (80 mins) slow
Thu 1M jog, then 4M (28 mins) brisk, then 1M jog
Fri Rest
Sat 5M (42 mins) easy
Sun 22M (3 hrs) slow

For The Month Ahead...

Your Goal A serious taper and a rewarding marathon. More...
Week Thirteen (52M)
Mon 4M (35 mins) easy
Tue 8M of 1M jog and strides, then 13 x 2 mins up hill, jog back. Then 1M jog at end of session
Wed 8M (65 mins) slow
Thu 1M jog, then 5M (35 mins) brisk, then 1M jog
Fri Rest
Sat 5M (42 mins) easy or parkrun
Sun 20M (3hrs) slow

Week Fourteen (49M)
Mon 4M (35 mins) easy
Tue 6M of 1M jog, then 7 x 800m (or 3 mins) fast, with 100m (or 1-min) jog recoveries, then 1M jog
Wed 7M (60 mins) slow
Thu 9M (70 mins) steady
Fri Rest
Sat 5M (42 mins) easy or parkrun
Sun 18M (2hrs 30) slow

Week Fifteen (37M)
Mon 4M (35 mins) easy
Tue 6M of 1M jog, then 10 x 400m (or 90 secs) fast, with 200m (or 2-min secs) jog recoveries, then 1M jog
Wed 6M (50 mins) slow
Thu 1M jog, then 3M (20 mins) brisk, then 1M jog
Fri Rest
Sat 4M (32 mins) easy
Sun 12M (90 mins) steady

Week Sixteen (43M inc race)
Mon 4M (35 mins) easy
Tue 4M of 1M jog, then 10 x 200m (or 45 secs) fast, with 100m (or 30 secs) jog recoveries, then 1M jog
Wed 4M (35 mins) easy
Thu 3M (22 mins) easy plus strides
Fri Rest
Sat 2M (15 mins) easy
Sun The race

 

[knocky1]

Theory seems to be changing a bit on this now - higher intensity runs in the 12-14 bracket etc.

I am with you on this. I did the Hanson training progamme for Brighton this year. It was more fun than the Runners world intermediate I did in 2013 1and 2012. They say the long run each week should not exceed 25-30% of the weekly mileage. So you have to total 60 miles a week to get in a 20 miler. Fine for old pros like Herr Tubb but for a 50 miler like myself I should not go over 17 miles. The reason is that anymore would deplete your glycogen stores that would need 2-3 days to recover and lead to missing training and a feeling of overtraining.

I didnt have the nerve to follow the plan and fitted in one 18 and a 20. These both meant I missed high intensity 10 and 12 milers on the following Tuesdays.

I finished in 3 hours 50. I managed the last half mile at 6:30 pace due to the programme. This year to try and shave 10 minutes+ off I plan to not exceed 18 miles. At 55 this will be my last push for my lifetime pb. The marathon is the only distance where this is still possible for me.

 

[dazzer6666]

I am with you on this. I did the Hanson training progamme for Brighton this year. It was more fun than the Runners world intermediate I did in 2013 1and 2012. They say the long run each week should not exceed 25-30% of the weekly mileage. So you have to total 60 miles a week to get in a 20 miler. Fine for old pros like Herr Tubb but for a 50 miler like myself I should not go over 17 miles. The reason is that anymore would deplete your glycogen stores that would need 2-3 days to recover and lead to missing training and a feeling of overtraining.

I didnt have the nerve to follow the plan and fitted in one 18 and a 20. These both meant I missed high intensity 10 and 12 milers on the following Tuesdays.

I finished in 3 hours 50. I managed the last half mile at 6:30 pace due to the programme. This year to try and shave 10 minutes+ off I plan to not exceed 18 miles. At 55 this will be my last push for my lifetime pb. The marathon is the only distance where this is still possible for me.

Good luck. It isn't though, go longer ? Much more fun.......
Interestingly I have embarked on a coached (individual) programme to get me through a fairly hardcore ultra event next summer. The coach (who is vastly experienced) has got me doing speedwork and conditioning work and not a lot of long runs, and said the programme will always have speedwork in it.

 

[knocky1]

Good luck. It isn't though, go longer ? Much more fun.......
Interestingly I have embarked on a coached (individual) programme to get me through a fairly hardcore ultra event next summer. The coach (who is vastly experienced) has got me doing speedwork and conditioning work and not a lot of long runs, and said the programme will always have speedwork in it.

Absolutely PBs are there for the taking but its a no for me. Well maybe it's a no for me. Well I think it's a no.......