[TV] O/T Beginning of Afghanistan War

[Neville's Breakfast]

I think we're getting into Rumsfeld territory here...

Reports that say that something hasn't happened are always interesting to me, because as we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns—the ones we don't know we don't know. And if one looks throughout the history of our country and other free countries, it is the latter category that tends to be the difficult ones.

Certainly, yes. That’s because events are unfolding before our eyes. Politicians are having to make real time assessments/decisions. They don’t have the luxury of hindsight and historical debate. They just have to get it right otherwise people die. Some powerful stuff coming out of Kabul about betrayal. Biden, NATO, the UK etc are going to have to up their game. I would imagine leverage with Pakistan is going to be crucial to the outcome.

 

[Hampster Gull]

Sleepy Joe, shameful

 

[Baker lite]

Very distressing reports of Afghan women now rushing round to buy burkhas. Also those who have studied and gained diplomas and 'western' qualifications, who have worked as teachers, who had jobs and careers and a life mapped out, are now having to hide all their hard-earned achievements and qualifications as they prepare to go back to life in the Stone Age under the oppression of these islamist nutters.

Hopefully footballers will be taking a knee in support these poor women at the Qatar World Cup next year, a country that has given refuge to these fruitcakes in recent years.


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[lasvegan]

The withdrawal agreement was made in February 2020 with Trump and Pompeo.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-51689443

As part of that deal 5000 prisoners were released, some of whom are now fighting for the Taliban.

To put the blame wholly on Biden is disingenuous.

[tweet]1426749579035303936[/tweet]

This is Biden’s exit strategy and he is wholly responsible for it, nothing disingenuous about it all. The Taliban know he is a weakling and are exposing him as such.

 

[lefty]

This vice documentary in 2012 shows US and UK getting out and saving face. Old but I found it interesting

 

[peterward]

Very distressing reports of Afghan women in Kabul now rushing round to buy burkhas. Also those who have studied and gained diplomas and 'western' qualifications, who have worked as teachers, who had jobs and careers and a life mapped out, are now having to hide all their hard-earned achievements and qualifications as they prepare to go back to life in the Stone Age under the oppression of these islamist nutters.

There was the reason for keeping a low level presence and the status quo. Millions of women have been robbed of a future.

Tragic

 

[peterward]

Bet the Taliban are all shitting it and desperate to adhere so as not to cause offence to this worthless piece of paper

 

[KeegansHairPiece]

This is Biden’s exit strategy and he is wholly responsible for it, nothing disingenuous about it all. The Taliban know he is a weakling and are exposing him as such.

It's not though is it. The exit strategy was laid out by the previous administration.

But by 24 May, he [UK Defence Secretary] told Parliament that it was a "regret for most of the Nato allies" that the US chose not to make the peace agreement "conditions-based at the end".

Last Friday Mr Wallace described the Doha deal as a "rotten deal", and today clarified he believed the "die was cast when the deal was done by Donald Trump".

"President Biden inherited a momentum that had been given to the Taliban because they felt they had now won," he said.

 

[Pavilionaire]

This is Biden’s exit strategy and he is wholly responsible for it, nothing disingenuous about it all. The Taliban know he is a weakling and are exposing him as such.

1. The exit strategy was agreed by Trump in Feb 2020, both he and Biden agreed it was time for NATO forces to withdraw from Afghanistan. This is a bi-partisan US position.
2. The second part of your sentence is your personal opinion. It is debatable as to the pros and cons of NATO remaining in Afghanistan, just as it is debatable whether Biden is a "weak" President.

I don't think NATO forces could have done more to help the Afghan people against Taliban oppression. We trained a 300,000-strong Afghan military presence, we equipped that army and then facilitated democratic elections so that people might live in freedom, and women might have some semblance of existence in that country. The Taliban were marginalised for 20 years whilst NATO forces maintained peace. Clearly, that position cannot be sustained indefinitely; it is their country and they -like their neighbours - need to stand on their own two feet.

It is now down to the Taliban to stick to the terms they agreed with Trump a year and a half ago.

 

[mikeyjh]

This is Biden’s exit strategy and he is wholly responsible for it, nothing disingenuous about it all. The Taliban know he is a weakling and are exposing him as such.

You can point fingers at Biden or whoever if you like but it's probably better to rely on facts. Trump and Pompeo signed the deal in Doha in 2020 that released 5,000 Taliban fighters from prison and committed all US forces to leave Afghanistan by Spring 2021. That was the start of this resurgence of the Taliban, you will not find many sources that would disagree with that. Post the start of the American pull out, many Afghan soldiers were not being paid, many units were not receiving supplies and ammunition.

You can see how morale disintegrated from there and how so many Afghan soldiers were deserting, selling weapons to the Taliban or even joining them. It's not entirely Trump's fault, nor Obama's, certainly not Biden's but the USA's complete failure and ultimate humiliation is there for all to see.

 

[Raleigh Chopper]

185,000 Afghan military, trained, armed and equipped by the west, pretty much immediately down weapons in the face of 85,000 Taliban. These were the numbers quoted in the Sunday Times at the weekend.

20 years of huge investment and tragic loss. All for nothing.

I am not saying it did not happen like that but you may want to watch the ex soldier on GMTV this morning, who is still out there running an animal charity for a more in depth account of the training of the Afghan army.
He is staying there until he can get his staff out with him.
Top bloke and I have no reason to disbelieve anything he said.

 

[Bakero]

I am not saying it did not happen like that but you may want to watch the ex soldier on GMTV this morning, who is still out there running an animal charity for a more in depth account of the training of the Afghan army.
He is staying there until he can get his staff out with him.
Top bloke and I have no reason to disbelieve anything he said.

What did he say?

 

[Baldseagull]

A Kabul resident just interviewed on the BBC said the Taliban going house to house at the moment are foreigners. They are looking for women with jobs and an education. These are young men, not Mujhadeen fighters from the ‘80s. Policy makers are going to have to deal with the current Taliban threat not relive one from the past.

I am not suggesting we are up against the actual fighters of the '80's, more that we have played a part in creating the Taliban, by supporting those fighters and more so the ideology that drove them, and have a responsibility to tackle it and suppress it now and into the future.
America chucked Billions of Dollars at them via Pakistan, and supported Saudi intelligence and fighters promoting the idea of Jihad to recruit more fighters against Russia in Afghanistan. That ideology, the political Islamic fundamentalism that the Taliban enforce and teach is something the West helped bring to Afghanistan when it suited us, it is a pretty shitty thing to leave it there and allow it's population to suffer it and have their children indoctrinated into it, until the next time it looks like a Jihadi from there, or trained there, kills people in New York.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

I am not suggesting we are up against the actual fighters of the '80's, more that we have played a part in creating the Taliban, by supporting those fighters and more so the ideology that drove them, and have a responsibility to tackle it and suppress it now and into the future.
America chucked Billions of Dollars at them via Pakistan, and supported Saudi intelligence and fighters promoting the idea of Jihad to recruit more fighters against Russia in Afghanistan. That ideology, the political Islamic fundamentalism that the Taliban enforce and teach is something the West helped bring to Afghanistan when it suited us, it is a pretty shitty thing to leave it there and allow it's population to suffer it and have their children indoctrinated into it, until the next time it looks like a Jihadi from there, or trained there, kills people in New York.

Of course. The history isn’t in dispute. It just doesn’t help us much right now. Western powers were to blame for the terms under which WW1 ended but 25 years later politicians were facing Hitler and it was too late to worry about what went on before. I think we are in agreement that very poor historical American policy decisions have played a big part in creating this problem but that doesn’t really get us anywhere. I am more concerned with the debacle unfolding right now.

 

[Boys 9d]

If the writer is correct then the outgoing Afghan Government have a hand in the present circumstances.

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...an-afghanistan-rule-hardline-coalition-powers

 

[Eeyore]

https://twitter.com/archrose90/status/1427202627616612354?s=21

What were you hoping to achieve by linking that ?

Why not just pop back to the Bear Pit ?

In summary. Trump started the leaving process, Biden completed it. Hundreds of thousands will suffer for it.

How about leaving it there ?

 

[Baker lite]

What did he say?

Ex Bootneck, trying to get a transport airplane to evacuate his rescue animals and the volunteers.
https://twitter.com/domdyer70/status/1427313563350274050?s=21


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[AmexRuislip]

[tweet]1427203279256227844[/tweet]

Amazing scenes

 

[Baker lite]

[tweet]1427203279256227844[/tweet]

Amazing scenes

Can you begin to imagine the absolute terror and desperation?
Truly awful for these poor souls.


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[Baker lite]

https://twitter.com/marcthevet/status/1427206652248403969?s=21


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