Number of Deaths

[beorhthelm]

So if these 5,400 people didn't die of Covid, what was their cause of death - do we get that answer, or just a rewriting of the figures to suite an agenda?

everyone has cause of death recorded. sometimes they have comorbidities, more than one illnesses. one will be recorded as primary cause of death, others listed as present at time of death. now they count covid only if reported in the past 28 days, other wise dont count as a comorbitiy. if you're in hospital for more than 28 with covid and die from this, it will still count as covid (clinical diagnosis still count)

its about classification. we have overstated the number dieing from covid, counting when they die having had covid at some indeterminate point in past. like the proverbial bus strike victim (offered by a science chap, not a politician). the data was reported wrongly now this is corrected. this sort of thing happens all the time, we just dont normally see it because we arent seeing daily updates, we see a report months later after corrections and adjustments are made.

its quite important adjustment, because we have a large number of excess deaths that are not covid. if we dont see this properly, we wont address it properly: why are there 5600 non-covid excess deaths? thats not really an agenda.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

everyone has cause of death recorded. sometimes they have comorbidities, more than one illnesses. one will be recorded as primary cause of death, others listed as present at time of death. no data is lost. if you're in hospital for more than 28 with covid and die from this, it will still count as covid (clinical diagnosis still count)

its about classification. we have overstated the number dieing from covid, counting when they die having had covid at some indeterminate point in past. like the proverbial bus strike victim (offered by a science chap, not a politician). the data was reported wrong now this is corrected. this sort of thing happens all the time, we just dont normally see it because we arent seeing daily updates, we see a report months later after corrections and adjustments are made.

its quite important adjustment, because we have a large number of excess deaths that are not covid. if we dont see this properly, we wont address it properly: why are there 5600 non-covid excess deaths? thats not really an agenda.

And these are good reasons why I feel the excess deaths figure is a better estimate of the full impact of Covid 19.

 

[BeHereNow]

Just checking into this thread for the first time in ages and it seems more people are finally catching on that a large number of deaths weren’t actually from Covid.

Not as if a load of us were saying that months ago

 

[darkwolf666]

More people died in March 2019 and 2018 than they did in 2020. A good video source here;

https://news.sky.com/video/covid-19-how-do-figures-of-virus-deaths-compare-to-a-normal-year-11964813

And in April/May/June?

 

[WATFORD zero]

So after re-defining the way Covid deaths are counted as being within 28 days of a positive test, the Government is now saying that only two thirds of the 62,000 excess deaths are due to Covid.

So what could have caused the other 20,000 odd excess deaths then ?

I wonder how many died without tests before the UK's testing became 'world beating'

Simply further proof that Excess deaths is the only unadulterated, accurate figure.

 

[nicko31]

So after re-defining the way Covid deaths are counted as being within 28 days of a positive test, the Government is now saying that only two thirds of the 62,000 excess deaths are due to Covid.

So what could have caused the other 20,000 odd excess deaths then ?

I wonder how many died without tests before the UK's testing became 'world beating'

Simply further proof that Excess deaths is the only unadulterated, accurate figure.

They'll be telling us the rest of the G7 calculates GDP in a different way next

The aim is to confuse the public with a view to getting themselves off the hook

 

[beorhthelm]

They'll be telling us the rest of the G7 calculates GDP in a different way next

The aim is to confuse the public with a view to getting themselves off the hook

i learnt recently we do. we count the output of education and some other sectors based on different metrics to simpler input=output most use. not clear the effect of this usually, when the educaiton sector is closed for 3 months it will have negative affect.

this change to counting covid doesnt get anyone off any hook, it prompts more probing questions, the excess deaths need to be explained. we're skirting around the reason, we know its because hospitals stopped admissions and treatments, so thousands didnt receive treatments they would have otherwise have had.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

So after re-defining the way Covid deaths are counted as being within 28 days of a positive test, the Government is now saying that only two thirds of the 62,000 excess deaths are due to Covid.

So what could have caused the other 20,000 odd excess deaths then ?

I wonder how many died without tests before the UK's testing became 'world beating'

Simply further proof that Excess deaths is the only unadulterated, accurate figure.

I’m not defending the clowns here.

But would it be better to see what the excess deaths are at the end of the year?

If it’s back down, would that back up the thought a large number of deaths would have happened this year?

 

[LamieRobertson]

i learnt recently we do. we count the output of education and some other sectors based on different metrics to simpler input=output most use. not clear the effect of this usually, when the educaiton sector is closed for 3 months it will have negative affect.

this change to counting covid doesnt get anyone off any hook, it prompts more probing questions, the excess deaths need to be explained. we're skirting around the reason, we know its because hospitals stopped admissions and treatments, so thousands didnt receive treatments they would have otherwise have had.

Seems sensible ..better to try and get at the truth than just use it as an excuse to have a go...

 

[loz]

i learnt recently we do. we count the output of education and some other sectors based on different metrics to simpler input=output most use. not clear the effect of this usually, when the educaiton sector is closed for 3 months it will have negative affect.

this change to counting covid doesnt get anyone off any hook, it prompts more probing questions, the excess deaths need to be explained. we're skirting around the reason, we know its because hospitals stopped admissions and treatments, so thousands didnt receive treatments they would have otherwise have had.

My sister works in social services and has been saying that last years flu season was very quite from October to Jan, and she seems to think the poor old souls that did not get the flu as normal at that time of year sadly did from Feb onward...I dont know if thats true but could count for a few extra this year ??

 

[WATFORD zero]

I’m not defending the clowns here.

But would it be better to see what the excess deaths are at the end of the year?

If it’s back down, would that back up the thought a large number of deaths would have happened this year?

Certainly the age profile of those who died is such that, all other things being equal, you would expect to see the number of excess deaths drop over the next few months and years as all of those who have died early would have reached the end of their natural lives.(I believe some calculations have been made already on the average number of years lost by those who have died early).

And, as pointed out above, the flu death rates were lower than normal. The simple fact is that the Government hasn't had the measures or testing in place (across all aspects) to accurately tell what was happening until very recently.

Any re-classifying deaths of deaths now, at this stage, ignoring all that went on earlier, is simply to make the difference between excess deaths and what the Government reports as deaths as wide as possible. But each time they do this, they simply increase the number of deaths for which they have no explanation

 

[Saltydog]

Is there a site anywhere that includes the 5 year average vs number of 2020 excess/total deaths by country?

 

[WATFORD zero]

Is there a site anywhere that includes the 5 year average vs number of 2020 excess/total deaths by country?

This has been good and kept fairly up to date throughout the pandemic (half way down page)

https://www.ft.com/content/a2901ce8-5eb7-4633-b89c-cbdf5b386938

 

[Saltydog]

This has been good and kept fairly up to date throughout the pandemic (half way down page)

https://www.ft.com/content/a2901ce8-5eb7-4633-b89c-cbdf5b386938

Thanks WZ. Some widely varying numbers there. I was particularly interested in the comparison proportionally between the major European countries. However I am most surprised by the numbers being reported for the US in terms of percentages.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Certainly the age profile of those who died is such that, all other things being equal, you would expect to see the number of excess deaths drop over the next few months and years as all of those who have died early would have reached the end of their natural lives.(I believe some calculations have been made already on the average number of years lost by those who have died early).

And, as pointed out above, the flu death rates were lower than normal. The simple fact is that the Government hasn't had the measures or testing in place (across all aspects) to accurately tell what was happening until very recently.

Any re-classifying deaths of deaths now, at this stage, ignoring all that went on earlier, is simply to make the difference between excess deaths and what the Government reports as deaths as wide as possible. But each time they do this, they simply increase the number of deaths for which they have no explanation

So are we now looking at those who had flu that died just having covid put down because of the symptoms being alike?

This reclassification is the right thing to do, it’s just way to late and is the gov trying to look better, also shows up the attention to pretty important details hasn’t been there.

What a mess

 

[darkwolf666]

i learnt recently we do. we count the output of education and some other sectors based on different metrics to simpler input=output most use. not clear the effect of this usually, when the educaiton sector is closed for 3 months it will have negative affect.

this change to counting covid doesnt get anyone off any hook, it prompts more probing questions, the excess deaths need to be explained. we're skirting around the reason, we know its because hospitals stopped admissions and treatments, so thousands didnt receive treatments they would have otherwise have had.

Are you really saying an extra 20,000 people died in 3 months because they didn't have treatment that would otherwise have saved their lives? I find that figure a little hard to believe. Did we really just stop treating ALL ill people apart from those with Covid?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Further fuel to my theory that the dominant covid mutant we currently 'enjoy' is a much less lethal variant. (Why is it my theory? Only because I don't hear it mentioned on the radio). Global data on ratios of deaths to cases and the change in this ratio since June fits the theory. It is (so far) also supported by headline UK data on cases and deaths trends (updated daily on the BBC web pages) where we can see the latest spike in cases that has (so far) not been matched at all by increases in deaths. Say about that what you will but when the same trend appears to be happening globally, it is...encouraging.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Did we really just stop treating ALL ill people apart from those with Covid?

Not all people, but a large percentage - yes.

 

[beorhthelm]

Are you really saying an extra 20,000 people died in 3 months because they didn't have treatment that would otherwise have saved their lives? I find that figure a little hard to believe. Did we really just stop treating ALL ill people apart from those with Covid?

im not saying it, the data is telling us this happened.

 

[Megazone]

im not saying it, the data is telling us this happened.

Whenever I've had gran mal seizures and someone has called the ambulance, they've been to my aid in a shot. Back in April I was having a very serious one so my flat mate called the ambulance. The ambulance didn't come.