not poyets fault losing murray!

[Working class pride]

I don't understand why people have to pigeon hole someone as being pro or anti Poyet, well unless you have a provincial newspaper to sell and whose sales really rely on Albion stories. Just be objective. My view is that Poyet is a good manager who has achieved nothing but the third division title, but as his budget was smaller than Saints then that was a great achievement. When in the Championship he has created a truly superb midfield. However he has so far failed in his choice of forwards and the valuation he placed on Murray was obviously wrong and many of us did say it at the time. Poyet made a mistake with Murray, we all make them but it was a right howler and looks like it will cost us promotion. Long term tho' who knows, Ulloa might score goals and I want Poyet here for many seasons to deliver a league placing that matches our placing in the table of crowds/support - top half of the top flight.

 

[KZNSeagull]

People seem to forget, how many times Murray was warming the bench, or the first striker subbed. The righting was on the wall for Murray, long before the end of that season.

Because he had not signed a new contract and his agent was playing us off against Millwall and Palace maybe? We were preparing for life without him as he was not committing himself to the club - I see that as sensible management, you see it as another chance to knock Poyet.

 

[kevtherev]

Our constant constant constant threads about GM and Palace are making us a joke club, small and tin pot, can't wait for tomorrow to be over, hopefully threads will end

They will only end if we get a win I suspect. If we lose tomorrow Poyet's record against our biggest rivals will read P 4 D 1 L 3.....hope he has a different view of the game this time and doesn't just dismiss it as just another game and he doesn't really get the needle involved, like he suggested last time.

 

[West Pier fear]

The point about penalties is a good one , Glenn doesn't take a good penalty IMO and has missed a few this season . If we got one tomorrow I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't take it .

Owen Garvan takes a good penalty, but we have missed his services for a good couple of months now. Leave it to KP, although he only just put his away against Hull. But saying that the keeper was well off his line before he made contact with the ball. I hope tomorrow is not decided by a spot kick, but would you be surprised?

 

[KZNSeagull]

They will only end if we get a win I suspect. If we lose tomorrow Poyet's record against our biggest rivals will read P 4 D 1 L 3.....hope he has a different view of the game this time and doesn't just dismiss it as just another game and he doesn't really get the needle involved, like he suggested last time.

He has already described it as the most important game of the season several times this week, so I believe he gets it.

 

[kevtherev]

Because he had not signed a new contract and his agent was playing us off against Millwall and Palace maybe? We were preparing for life without him as he was not committing himself to the club - I see that as sensible management, you see it as another chance to knock Poyet.

Wrong, I don't see it as another chance, at all...Everyone that actually knows anything, knows Murray was desperate to stay and after finishing top scorer wanted a moderate salary increase, which he was more than entitled too. Poyet didn't rate him and went out and bought Cms and paid him double, if not more than what Murray is on a Palace....Least not forget this is the guy, who bought Dobbie in on massive wages and a big transfer fee. Dropped him after he scored two goals, then shipped him out to our nearest rivals...Shrewd!!!

 

[ROSM]

Wrong, I don't see it as another chance, at all...Everyone that actually knows anything, knows Murray was desperate to stay and after finishing top scorer wanted a moderate salary increase, which he was more than entitled too. Poyet didn't rate him and went out and bought Cms and paid him double, if not more than what Murray is on a Palace....Least not forget this is the guy, who bought Dobbie in on massive wages and a big transfer fee. Dropped him after he scored two goals, then shipped him out to our nearest rivals...Shrewd!!!

Incorrect on three fronts. One he wasn't fussed about staying (so said his agent). Two he is on slightly more money at palace than cms is on here and three, when the story about dobbie comes out, itay be clear that he wasn't 'dropped'.

 

[Twinkle Toes]

If I remember correctly at the time the main sticking points were wages (Murray wanted another £500 a week ?) and length of contract (Murray wanted 3 years , the club said 2). His agent was also playing us off against Millwall and Palace for leverage. A stalemate was reached and the rest is history.

Indeed, although Poyet's explanation of seperate pots for transfers & wages is the reason he has given for the club not meeting Murray's (i.e. his agent's) contract demands. It just makes me question who was reponsible for the decisions made on wages & transfer policy at the time, although it might just tie in with a certain Mr Barber taking over the fiscal reins...

 

[Barrel of Fun]

We don't know the ins and outs of the contracts of any of the players, do we?

Thankfully Gus got the best out of him and he helped us gain promotion. He left. The world hasn't stopped turning. He may or may not have been a success for us if he had stayed. Who knows?

 

[The Large One]

Indeed, although Poyet's explanation of seperate pots for transfers & wages is the reason he has given for the club not meeting Murray's (i.e. his agent's) contract demands. It just makes me question who was reponsible for the decisions made on wages & transfer policy at the time, although it might just tie in with a certain Mr Barber taking over the fiscal reins...

Murray left in summer 2011. Barber joined in June 2012.

 

[LamieRobertson]

Murray left in summer 2011. Barber joined in June 2012.

Lol..dont let the facts get in the way

 

[Superseagull]

The lesson to be learnt is not to let a players contract run out, then try and negotiate. Murray was free to talk to other clubs whilst we were still trying to sort out a contract. Always going to be clubs prepared to offer better contracts as no transfer fee to pay. An improved contract should have been sorted out the season before. lesson learnt I hope.

 

[Ernest]

In hindsight it was a mistake letting our top scorer go but nothing can be done about it now and it is easy to be wise afterwards

 

[deletebeepbeepbeep]

Just don't buy the Argus article at all, Poyet ****ed up. And I hate this revisionism that ohh 'you didn't want him last year when he only scored 7'. Bullshit, yes I did- it's clear to see he's a classy player, made numerous posts last year saying he would be class in our side- and he was our top scorer the previous year FFS. Doesn't take a genius to pull out the stops to keep your main striker who helped you get promoted!!

 

[Glenn-Murray]

Incorrect on three fronts. One he wasn't fussed about staying (so said his agent). Two he is on slightly more money at palace than cms is on here and three, when the story about dobbie comes out, itay be clear that he wasn't 'dropped'.

I would question whether CMS earns less than Murray. I'd imagine it's rather likely he earns more, if not significantly more. Yes, Murray was signed on a free which means we could afford to pay him higher wages than we could if we had paid a transfer fee. However, Mackail-Smith was your record signing and I'm doubtful that he'd sign for £2.5m+ and accept the wage of a squad player. If he wasn't your highest earner at the time I'd be shocked, considering the size of the transfer and the expectations of him as a player.

Of course, now the whole thing looks like a mistake. Murray is clearly more gifted than CMS and is a better striker at this level, but this wasn't as evident last season and indeed at the time of the signings it looked like you'd signed a top player who would thrive at this level. It was a bold statement of intent from your club and nobody really thought it would backfire. Hindsight is always 20/20.

Regardless, there is absolutely no way that Murray would have scored 30 goals for any other side this season. The way we play is entirely based on our striker who is the focal point of every attack and is always available in the box. In our system CMS may have reached 20 goals by this point. I dread to think how frequently someone like Charlie Austin would score!

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Just don't buy the Argus article at all, Poyet ****ed up. And I hate this revisionism that ohh 'you didn't want him last year when he only scored 7'. Bullshit, yes I did- it's clear to see he's a classy player, made numerous posts last year saying he would be class in our side- and he was our top scorer the previous year FFS. Doesn't take a genius to pull out the stops to keep your main striker who helped you get promoted!!

Would you like me to bump your post from 2010 where you rated Barnes above Murray in your favourite 5 players, again.?

 

[ROSM]

I would question whether CMS earns less than Murray. I'd imagine it's rather likely he earns more, if not significantly more. Yes, Murray was signed on a free which means we could afford to pay him higher wages than we could if we had paid a transfer fee. However, Mackail-Smith was your record signing and I'm doubtful that he'd sign for £2.5m+ and accept the wage of a squad player. If he wasn't your highest earner at the time I'd be shocked, considering the size of the transfer and the expectations of him as a player.

Of course, now the whole thing looks like a mistake. Murray is clearly more gifted than CMS and is a better striker at this level, but this wasn't as evident last season and indeed at the time of the signings it looked like you'd signed a top player who would thrive at this level. It was a bold statement of intent from your club and nobody really thought it would backfire. Hindsight is always 20/20.

Regardless, there is absolutely no way that Murray would have scored 30 goals for any other side this season. The way we play is entirely based on our striker who is the focal point of every attack and is always available in the box. In our system CMS may have reached 20 goals by this point. I dread to think how frequently someone like Charlie Austin would score!

Wages and signing on fee are more than cms wages and signing on fee.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I would question whether CMS earns less than Murray. I'd imagine it's rather likely he earns more, if not significantly more. Yes, Murray was signed on a free which means we could afford to pay him higher wages than we could if we had paid a transfer fee. However, Mackail-Smith was your record signing and I'm doubtful that he'd sign for £2.5m+ and accept the wage of a squad player. If he wasn't your highest earner at the time I'd be shocked, considering the size of the transfer and the expectations of him as a player.

Of course, now the whole thing looks like a mistake. Murray is clearly more gifted than CMS and is a better striker at this level, but this wasn't as evident last season and indeed at the time of the signings it looked like you'd signed a top player who would thrive at this level. It was a bold statement of intent from your club and nobody really thought it would backfire. Hindsight is always 20/20.

Regardless, there is absolutely no way that Murray would have scored 30 goals for any other side this season. The way we play is entirely based on our striker who is the focal point of every attack and is always available in the box. In our system CMS may have reached 20 goals by this point. I dread to think how frequently someone like Charlie Austin would score!

The Guardian reported recently that Murray was on 13K a week with Palace. Murray also got a substantial signing on fee for you which, at the time, was crucial for his divorce settlement.

 

[Glenn-Murray]

Wages and signing on fee are more than cms wages and signing on fee.

I find this difficult to believe. I have no idea how people manage to get this information, but if true, it seems quite fitting that the top goal scorer in the country earns £13k per week. In fact, I'd wager that he is worth quite a lot more than that now!

The Guardian reported recently that Murray was on 13K a week with Palace. Murray also got a substantial signing on fee for you which, at the time, was crucial for his divorce settlement.

CMS signed for almost £3m and yet earns less than £13k per week? Blimey, you must have some fantastic negotiators and must be very convincing. If, as reported at the time, there was genuine Premiership interest, I find it tough to believe that he wasn't offer twice that amount elsewhere.

 

[KZNSeagull]

Wrong, I don't see it as another chance, at all...Everyone that actually knows anything, knows Murray was desperate to stay and after finishing top scorer wanted a moderate salary increase, which he was more than entitled too. Poyet didn't rate him and went out and bought Cms and paid him double, if not more than what Murray is on a Palace....Least not forget this is the guy, who bought Dobbie in on massive wages and a big transfer fee. Dropped him after he scored two goals, then shipped him out to our nearest rivals...Shrewd!!!

I don't see your logic at all:

- If you don't rate someone, you don't offer them a new contract at all.
- If he was desperate to stay, he would have stayed as he was offered a new contract. Not signing it because the money was not good enough is not the action of a desperate man.

And I will believe what @ROSM says before I believe you.