Not a Martin Perry fan

[Marc]

But even then, still no improvement to the road access? As you say, water under the bridge now, but I'd rather be at Falmer...

not sure if they were planning something like that but either way its through an AONB (which I believe existed then as it does now) so building a bigger road would still of had some hurdles to jump.

 

[perseus]

The railway line to Beeding, 2004.

 

[BensGrandad]

Perseus:

All hypothetical now as we are going to FALMER but as you are an an expert on road systems etc.

Why could a two lane road not have been built from the existing junction to the back of the Cement works to a car park to be only used when the Stadium was used and operated as a one way access to the stadium and the reverse a one way exit after the game.

 

[perseus]

Lets be technical.

The valley route to Beeding from the spider-like junction at Shoreham is not an AONB as it winds its narrrow way through the valley past the wrecked cars (it is a dangerous road, accident-wise).

However, the huge mound of asbestos and cement works junk, plus new junk allowed by Hargreaves, and the bloody great hole in the hill is an AONB.

It just shows how daft these AONB designations can be !

Even without Falmer some of these designations (and non-designations) are a bit of scandal and the whole National Park idea is a waste of time, not least because the Sussex Downs Conservation Board are the most arrogant, dogmatic and crappy people and organisation that I have ever come across. They are in cahoots with Lewes District Council and sing from the same hymn sheet, but that is not the only reason why they are useless. They cannot manage the downs properly.

 

[Superseagull]

The A283 is one of the most dangerous roads in Britain. Not only would this road need to be upgraded from the A27 to the cement works, but also the roads to the North as well to give an alternative route to the A23 and A24. The steyning bypass would have to become dual carriageway all the way to the A24, and the A281 A2027 would need huge improvments as well. Henfield & steyning would be gridlocked every match day as would the narrow lanes around fulking, pycombe and poynings. There is 0% chance of the railway being reinstated. The cost would be crazy. The cement works is just pie in the sky for a football stadium.

 

[DTES]

The cement works is just pie in the sky for a football stadium.

It's one of many pies in the sky. All except one really: FALMER.

 

[perseus]

Perseus:

All hypothetical now as we are going to FALMER but as you are an an expert on road systems etc.

Why could a two lane road not have been built from the existing junction to the back of the Cement works to a car park to be only used when the Stadium was used and operated as a one way access to the stadium and the reverse a one way exit after the game.

You can build anything, but it would cost £20 million absolute minimum on today's prices. It is a two way road at the moment, but it is a traffic jam and not wide enough at present.

There is no public transport, of course. One bus every two hours or so.

These are really underestimates. If somebody said clearing out the junk would cost £50 million, I would not totally rule it out. However, Hargreaves would not have applied for Planning Permission for the houses and industry if the site was prohibitively expensive to clear. But the houses would have cleared a nice £100 million plus profit if allowed, unlike a stadium.

Anyrate, it is clearly much crappier and more expensive that building in Shoreham Harbour canal, the latter on water over moving pebbles. This is the Sussex Downs Conservation Board suggestion.

 

[BensGrandad]

I must admit I had only thought of traffic as coming from the A27 as I didnt think that many coming from the East would use the A283 through Henfield and only a very few supporters come from Horsham/Guildford area as to not make that much difference to the usage of the A283 than now.

As said previously it is all conjecture because we are going to FALMER.

 

[Easy 10]

Why could a two lane road not have been built from the existing junction to the back of the Cement works to a car park to be only used when the Stadium was used and operated as a one way access to the stadium and the reverse a one way exit after the game.

If you'd heard Me Lee, the traffic & transport consultant at the Public Inquiry on Friday, he gave a very detailed account of why this site is totally unviable in terms of access for a 22,500 seater stadium. Road access is pretty much the the ONLY way people could get to a stadium there. You can have all the park & ride schemes you like going to and from the stadium, but if those buses are snarled up with the rest of the matchday traffic (including the usual non-football traffic on a Saturday), then even if that road was increased to a dual carriageway, you'd still have jams weaving all the way back and onto the A27.

It was totally unviable in 1993, and it still is for all the same reasons.

 

[The Large One]

Large One you are at it again, whilst Falmer is now the only site for the Albion you should remember that Barry Lloyd had done the deal for Beeding Cement Works in 1993 with Pepsi Cola picking up some of the tab along with other funding from the EU and the Football Trust, Archer blocked the deal, one man stood in the Albion's way and we all know why.
Had it gone through I'd imagine the Albion would have been playing there for the last 8 years or so, Archer is at the root of all the club's problems, full stop!

BG’s point was that someone with some real money would have got us through the planning process by now. This, of course, is utter nonsense. He used a totally irrelevant parallel for Tesco in Guildford.

I will not argue the point that Barry Lloyd may have gone some way to obtaining Beeding Cement Works, and that Archer scuppered it. But you appear to be labouring under the concept that because there was funding, it would follow that we would get planning permission. This is simply not true.

The problems with Upper Beeding now are the same as then. No effective public transport infrastructure. It would have cost millions, possibly tens of millions to get the access right. You say there was funding for the stadium, but what about the roads, interchanges, railways, stations etc? Unfortunately, as you say, the one person in a position to finance it wanted to not to help the club, but to wreck it.

This doesn’t include the fact that, because the Beeding site is in an AONB, it would have almost certainly been called in for a Public Inquiry in the same way that Falmer has. More expense.

Therefore, Beeding would never have been the best site, merely the site that the Albion may have gone furthest along the line with. On a certain level, this may have been understandable, insofar as they would not have had to deal with Hove Borough Council, but to locate a football club so far from its main source of custom with few means of allowing them to get there? Not best business practice.

What seems clear is that not everyone at the football club at that time was facing in the same direction. I think it’s fair to say that they are now.

 

[BensGrandad]

Large One keeps on about 'good business practice of moving away from the catchment area'.

I believe that statistics when they were given showed that the majority of Brighton supporters didnt come from Brighton but west of the A23.

The costs involved then would not have been anywhere near as high as now e.g Falmer was originally quoted as just under £40m now I belive that it is quoted at just under £50m obviously due to rising costs and inflation etc.

Unfortunately this argument could go on for ever as nobody knows what the outcome would or could have been much more important is the future.

Falmer - If a no on that perhaps moving the athletics track and mini stadium to Sussex University and then a complete rebuild of Withdean with stands on all four sides. So perhaps Messrs Catt and Hilton should reconsider joining forces with Falmer DC and the NIMBYs.

 

[Ex Shelton Seagull]

Mr Catt already HAS joined forces with Falmer DC and the NIMBY's. That's how much he hates us. He's been providing them with legal help from his court case with the council over Withdean.

 

[BensGrandad]

Mr Catt already HAS joined forces with Falmer DC and the NIMBY's. That's how much he hates us. He's been providing them with legal help from his court case with the council over Withdean.

I accept that but perhaps he should reconsider and pull out because there is always the possibility that we could finish up at Withdean permanently if all else fails, or JP recommends it.

 

[FG aka FOOTBALL GENIUS]

no reason why the railway line cant be reopened in any case its not in an area of outstanding natural beauty like falmer!!!!!! which is good enough reason for the site to be selected in preference as more suitable than falmer any day!

 

[perseus]

Large One keeps on about 'good business practice of moving away from the catchment area'.

I believe that statistics when they were given showed that the majority of Brighton supporters didnt come from Brighton but west of the A23.

The costs involved then would not have been anywhere near as high as now e.g Falmer was originally quoted as just under £40m now I belive that it is quoted at just under £50m obviously due to rising costs and inflation etc.

Unfortunately this argument could go on for ever as nobody knows what the outcome would or could have been much more important is the future.

Falmer - If a no on that perhaps moving the athletics track and mini stadium to Sussex University and then a complete rebuild of Withdean with stands on all four sides. So perhaps Messrs Catt and Hilton should reconsider joining forces with Falmer DC and the NIMBYs.

I checked this out with the Albion, at least as far as the % that come from Brighton & Hove and go to the Albion matches. The other % are estimates based on Census 2001 populations.

This is 40% from Brighton & Hove and Portslade (including Mile Oak). With the comparative populations, it is reasonable to calculate that about 30% of the fans come from Worthing and Adur and the west. 20% would come from north of Brighton, Burgess Hill etc, leaving 8% from the Lewes area and 2% from faraway places. Just sort of roughly. It does mean that a large number of Albion fans would be put out by a stadium at Sheepcote, or Newhaven.

 

[FG aka FOOTBALL GENIUS]

i think you missed out a very large proportion come to matches from the Horsham area still the cement works falmer doesnt, lets hope the looney tune lefties cement it in upper beeding and dont puff on silents pipe dream of an area of outstanding natural beauty at falmer.

 

[BensGrandad]

Perseus what about east of Brighton i.e Eastbourne Hastings Seaford Newhaven etc what %. Are the figures available?

 

[BensGrandad]

i think you missed out a very large proportion come to matches from the Horsham area

Wouldn't have thought very many % wise came from Horsham as they tend to follow Londion clubs.

 

[The Large One]

Large One keeps on about 'good business practice of moving away from the catchment area'.

I believe that statistics when they were given showed that the majority of Brighton supporters didnt come from Brighton but west of the A23.

The costs involved then would not have been anywhere near as high as now e.g Falmer was originally quoted as just under £40m now I belive that it is quoted at just under £50m obviously due to rising costs and inflation etc.

Unfortunately this argument could go on for ever as nobody knows what the outcome would or could have been much more important is the future.

Falmer - If a no on that perhaps moving the athletics track and mini stadium to Sussex University and then a complete rebuild of Withdean with stands on all four sides. So perhaps Messrs Catt and Hilton should reconsider joining forces with Falmer DC and the NIMBYs.

I didn't 'keep on', I mentioned it once.

West of the A23? The majority of the city of Brighton & Hove is west of the A23. Not twisting the figures, are you?

Considering roughly one quarter of the population of Sussex lives in Brighton & Hove, that implies a pretty sparse fanbase 'east of the A23', and north to Surrey and London. Even if that was the case, Upper Beeding is a complete bastard to get to - nigh on impossible without a car.

Withdean: It has already been stated that there is no room for a stadium AND a bus/coach park (a statutory requirement in this Inquiry). Besides which, access (something you have overlooked for both Beeding and now Withdean) is nigh on impossible for 22,000 without the very expensive business of widening the Tongdean Lane tunnel.

Safety officers have already stated that we cannot go over the 9,000 capacity we have planning (though not transport) permission for with that tunnel as it currently is.

 

[FG aka FOOTBALL GENIUS]

noone in Hastings is gonna have the money silent will be charging for a bum on a seat at a new stadium!!!! which make me think perhaps we should redevelop Withdean as plenty of locals will have enough spare change to afford going!