North stand standing what a joke

[Pretty pink fairy]

The poor soles who died and those who suffered terrible burns at Bradford were all in allocated seating,those in the standing area in the front half of the stand got out unharmed.in that case seating killed and standing was safe.
The true link between both cases was the contempt for the safety of the customers and the shit state of both grounds.Hillsborough nearly happened at the semi the season before and Bradford was a fire trap of a stand just waiting to burn down and people died because the exit gates at the back of the stand were padlocked shut.

Our Goldstone South stand was just as bad,but we got lucky it burnt down overnight after a match against Middlesborough.

what about the West stand .........
regards
Das reich

 

[raymondbriggs]

what about the West stand .........
regards
Das reich

what about the west stand?

It never burnt down.It had an asbestos roof,it was built of concrete and brick and just about all the wood in it was the seats.

Disregard
Pretty pink fairy

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

what about the west stand?

It never burnt down.It had an asbestos roof,it was built of concrete and brick and just about all the wood in it was the seats.

Disregard
Pretty pink fairy

so what yeah the roof got damaged ?and those seats would still burn? but you're always right aren't you
regards
Das reich

 

[HovaGirl]

Why on earth does Hillsborough get brought up when the safe standing issue is discussed? It shouldn't even come into the issue. Safe standing is utterly utterly different, to old style terraces. Like somone else just said, at old trafford, both stands behind both goals are all standing, maybe 30k people #unsafeseating

Hillsborough is mentioned because it's the reason for this law.

 

[raymondbriggs]

so what yeah the roof got damaged ?and those seats would still burn? but you're always right aren't you
regards
Das reich

Right enough to get your name changed.

Disregard
Pretty pink fairy.

 

[raymondbriggs]

Hillsborough is mentioned because it's the reason for this law.

But can you not see that
(1) IT IS NOT A LAW
(2) seating KILLED people at Bradford

 

[drew]

The poor soles who died and those who suffered terrible burns at Bradford were all in allocated seating,those in the standing area in the front half of the stand got out unharmed.in that case seating killed and standing was safe.
The true link between both cases was the contempt for the safety of the customers and the shit state of both grounds.Hillsborough nearly happened at the semi the season before and Bradford was a fire trap of a stand just waiting to burn down and people died because the exit gates at the back of the stand were padlocked shut.

Our Goldstone South stand was just as bad,but we got lucky it burnt down overnight after a match against Middlesborough.

But you haven't answered the question, just tried to avert attention.

 

[raymondbriggs]

But you haven't answered the question, just tried to avert attention.

Sorry I am lost in all this intolerance from the "do as your betters tell you" brigade.
What is the question I am trying to divert attention from?

 

[raymondbriggs]

These clubs have already put their names forward to support and trial safe standing,not all of them are forced by the current regulations to install seating but Peterborough don't want to rip the terraces out.
The FSF's Safe Standing Campaign is supported by Aldershot Town, Aston Villa, Brentford, Bristol City, Burnley, Cardiff City, Crystal Palace, Derby County, Doncaster Rovers, Exeter City, Hull City, Oldham Athletic, Peterborough United, Plymouth Argyle, Shrewsbury Town, Sunderland, Swansea City, Swindon Town, Watford, AFC Wimbledon, Wolverhampton Wanderers, the Scottish Premier League.

And standing is widely ignored up and down the country as tonights Manure game shows.

 

[raymondbriggs]

Safe Standing Campaign | Football Supporters Federation

 

[raymondbriggs]

If this is your point I have avoided "drew"

"I'm not against safe standing but there must be an economical reason for it which, with regard to the Amex, doesn't yet apply as we have only just built the place, a point which I think you, probably reluctantly, accept but that a vociferous few don't appreciate."

Why MUST there be "an economic reason". Standing just needs tolerance on the part of the club,there need be no economic impact of a sensible approach to serving the desire of the customer,the safe standing seats are a means of increasing crowd density but if the club wishes to keep the same seats/density/capacity in fact there could be argued a case for a positive financial impact in building upon fan loyalty and encouraging re-sales of season tickets.

 

[clapham_gull]

Football Spectators Act 1989 [ http://www.parliament.uk/briefing-papers/SN03937.pdf ]

In which case you have misread it. Whilst it disallows standing areas in the top 2 divisions, (well technically they can be there but you can't watch the game from them) there is no law which states you have committed an offence by standing in a seated area. Because obviously you would broken the law by walking to your seat or jumping up for a goal.

There are of course ground regulations which give the club the right to throw you out at their discretion. I actually agree with that because I think clubs should be allowed to have terraced areas. Persistent standing used to drive me nuts at Withdean......

You have not committed a criminal offence by standing and this was confirmed to the Football Supporters Federation by the Government a few years ago. Which is why I thought it strange that the Police took such a close notice at Withdean because technically nought to do with them.

I also disagree with Attila when he says the banning of standing was politically motivated. Taylor did a good job with evidence he had and it has to be remembered that he came to the conclusion it wasn't the fans fault.

I think he genuinely thought it would make stadia safer.

It probably has made them safer all the time people sit down. But they don't which is why I am fully behind safe standing.

If I can contradict myself slightly, his recommendations probably did fall nicely into the hands of the politically motivated. I suspect the Police love seating because it is so much easier to identify people. It also allowed clubs to massively increase entrance charges, although they would probably argue it made up for the loss of terraces.

Lastly, the arrogance of clubs who aren't willing to even consider it does rile me. Funny industry football, still so massively out of touch with it's "customers" - although that's apparently what we are called these days.

 

[drew]

But can you not see that
(1) IT IS NOT A LAW
(2) seating KILLED people at Bradford

How dumb. Seating did not kill those at Bradford, the fact that they were at the back of the stand was the reason many of them died, that and the fact that they went down to the exits under the stand which were locked! Not many actually died in the seat they sat in?

 

[Working class pride]

O wonder if Drew would have thrown out Alex Ferguson at Old Trafford for asking the crowd to stand up and sing tonight? I also see that he says that seats disnt kill anyone at Bradford (agreed) but then fails to be balanced and agree that it was fences that caused the sad deaths at Hillsborough and there are no fences at Brighton. Using the deaths of people at Hillsborough to justify the weird obsession that Brighton have for throwing out teenagers for singing in the singing stand is just not on so stop doing it. Old Trafford tonight 80,000 sang and stood up, and nobody died as a result. So Brighton, learn from Spurs, Leeds and Man U and leave those kids alone.

 

[raymondbriggs]

How dumb. Seating did not kill those at Bradford, the fact that they were at the back of the stand was the reason many of them died, that and the fact that they went down to the exits under the stand which were locked! Not many actually died in the seat they sat in?

I am sorry Drew but you obviously did not read the account I posted above,if you had you would have seen the point I was making.
Perhaps you never saw the old South Stand at the Goldstone,it was a smaller version of the Bradford one(Goal Line length rather than Touchline)It would have helped you visualise the Bradford one.

At Bradford the stand was divided into two halves lengthwise.At the back slightly raised upon the camber, seating with terracing in front.the sections divided by a wall.
Those in the standing area escaped onto the pitch whilst those behind the wall went to exits at the back.Many of those exits were padlocked.
Those that died and were injured suffered because of being in a seating area and because of the indifference to safety and their incompetence on the part of those charged with keeping them safe.JUST LIKE HILLSBOROUGH.

As I have said I have no intention of posting the video of this tragedy but if you are to young to know what you are talking about,if you did not live through these times..have a look for Bradford City Fire on Youtube

 

[drew]

If this is your point I have avoided "drew"

"I'm not against safe standing but there must be an economical reason for it which, with regard to the Amex, doesn't yet apply as we have only just built the place, a point which I think you, probably reluctantly, accept but that a vociferous few don't appreciate."

Why MUST there be "an economic reason". Standing just needs tolerance on the part of the club,there need be no economic impact of a sensible approach to serving the desire of the customer,the safe standing seats are a means of increasing crowd density but if the club wishes to keep the same seats/density/capacity in fact there could be argued a case for a positive financial impact in building upon fan loyalty and encouraging re-sales of season tickets.

Are you really as thick as you come across. Why haven't we got a stadium with a capacity of 80,000? Why haven't we got an underground car park for 5000 cars just next to the stadium. Why isn't there a siding for 12 carriage trains, why aren't there escalators instead of stairs? Economics! And the fact that TB (not you I note!) has spent about £100m on a stadium and is now spending £17m on a training academy seems to go over your head. It would have to be economically viable for the club to consider it. Perhaps you could give the club an accurate estimate as to the total cost of the installation of safe seating so the club can consider it and also over how long it will take to recover that investment.

 

[Working class pride]

Wonder if Drew would have thrown out Alex Ferguson at Old Trafford for asking the crowd to stand up and sing tonight? I also see that he says that seats disnt kill anyone at Bradford (agreed) but then fails to be balanced and agree that it was fences that caused the sad deaths at Hillsborough and there are no fences at Brighton. Using the deaths of people at Hillsborough to justify the weird obsession that Brighton have for throwing out teenagers for singing in the singing stand is just not on so stop doing it. Old Trafford tonight 80,000 sang and stood up, and nobody died as a result. So Brighton, learn from Spurs, Leeds and Man U and leave those kids alone.

 

[raymondbriggs]

Are you really as thick as you come across. Why haven't we got a stadium with a capacity of 80,000? Why haven't we got an underground car park for 5000 cars just next to the stadium. Why isn't there a siding for 12 carriage trains, why aren't there escalators instead of stairs? Economics! And the fact that TB (not you I note!) has spent about £100m on a stadium and is now spending £17m on a training academy seems to go over your head. It would have to be economically viable for the club to consider it. Perhaps you could give the club an accurate estimate as to the total cost of the installation of safe seating so the club can consider it and also over how long it will take to recover that investment.

Well at least i can read.


Why MUST there be "an economic reason". Standing just needs tolerance on the part of the club,there need be no economic impact of a sensible approach to serving the desire of the customer,the safe standing seats are a means of increasing crowd density but if the club wishes to keep the same seats/density/capacity in fact there could be argued a case for a positive financial impact in building upon fan loyalty and encouraging re-sales of season tickets.

 

[Gullzone]

O wonder if Drew would have thrown out Alex Ferguson at Old Trafford for asking the crowd to stand up and sing tonight? I also see that he says that seats disnt kill anyone at Bradford (agreed) but then fails to be balanced and agree that it was fences that caused the sad deaths at Hillsborough and there are no fences at Brighton. Using the deaths of people at Hillsborough to justify the weird obsession that Brighton have for throwing out teenagers for singing in the singing stand is just not on so stop doing it. Old Trafford tonight 80,000 sang and stood up, and nobody died as a result. So Brighton, learn from Spurs, Leeds and Man U and leave those kids alone.

Yeah saw that at Old Trafford tonight, the stretford end, and the opposite end all standing throughout the whole game, must have been a few thousand. Didnt see stewards eject anybody so how do we make sense of it all !!!!!

 

[raymondbriggs]

And why are you so ANGRY.

Intolerance seems firmly embedded firmly in the "sit down shut up" brigade.