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[Albion] No Veltman, no party







S

sussex_guy2k2

Well-known member
Jun 6, 2014
4,534
Machiavelli said:
He really didn't make it, he was on about the half way line. Minteh did that.
I'm only making the point that he doesn't offer much going forward. I know you won't agree, but it's so obvious.
He does offer defensive solidity, game intelligence and reads the daft oppo players like a book but if you really think he's stunning going forward, perhaps you can share with us the number of goals and assists he's got with us in the PL, alongside the number of appearances.
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This is the problem with people on here - they deal in absolutes. I don’t think there’s a single Albion fan who thinks Veltman is rubbish. He’s an excellent player. But he’s substantially worse offensively than Lamptey. Conversely, Lamptey, who is much derided on here by a large number of our fans, is great going forward but suffers defensively.

That doesn’t mean Velts won’t have the odd good bit of attacking play or that Lamptey won’t do some excellent defensive work, it just means they have different strengths.

Although I do think part of the problem is that many still seem to think the role of a full back is to defend and defend alone. It isn’t. Arguably the best RB in the world isn’t that great defensively. Many teams now use their full backs to help control the midfield. Many have been played because they’re great going forwards and full backs have tended to have more space than anyone else on the pitch, so they can maximise this space.

But, again, just to reiterate, that doesn’t make Veltman a bad player because he can’t do all of these exciting modern full backy things. He’s excellent at what he does, in the same way Lamptey is excellent at how he interprets the role, when given game time, and when the team is adapted tactically to cover the differences in their games.
 


Uh_huh_him

Uh_huh_him

Well-known member
Sep 28, 2011
12,727
sussex_guy2k2 said:
This is the problem with people on here - they deal in absolutes. I don’t think there’s a single Albion fan who thinks Veltman is rubbish. He’s an excellent player. But he’s substantially worse offensively than Lamptey. Conversely, Lamptey, who is much derided on here by a large number of our fans, is great going forward but suffers defensively.

That doesn’t mean Velts won’t have the odd good bit of attacking play or that Lamptey won’t do some excellent defensive work, it just means they have different strengths.

Although I do think part of the problem is that many still seem to think the role of a full back is to defend and defend alone. It isn’t. Arguably the best RB in the world isn’t that great defensively. Many teams now use their full backs to help control the midfield. Many have been played because they’re great going forwards and full backs have tended to have more space than anyone else on the pitch, so they can maximise this space.

But, again, just to reiterate, that doesn’t make Veltman a bad player because he can’t do all of these exciting modern full backy things. He’s excellent at what he does, in the same way Lamptey is excellent at how he interprets the role, when given game time, and when the team is adapted tactically to cover the differences in their games.
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He may not have many goals and assists, but his playmaking to release our exciting players is sublime.
Simple passes, but made at the right time with the right weight, into dangerous areas.

He will always be underrated by fans that just want to see pace, crosses and shots from wide players.
 




S

sussex_guy2k2

Well-known member
Jun 6, 2014
4,534
Uh_huh_him said:
He may not have many goals and assists, but his playmaking to release our exciting players is sublime.
Simple passes, but made at the right time with the right weight, into dangerous areas.

He will always be underrated by fans that just want to see pace, crosses and shots from wide players.
Click to expand...
Your last sentence is the problem. No one on here underrates Veltman. They underrate Lamptey. And those of us defending Lamptey are seen to be having a go at Veltman at his expense when that couldn’t be further from the truth. I think Veltman is an excellent player who’s a phenomenal defender, who generally makes us better.

But he’s not beyond reproach or criticism. And it’s not that wild to suggest Lamptey is better than him going forward. Literally every piece of evidence and data suggests this to be the case.

As to his playmaking abilities, let’s not be silly. If you’re so desperate to deal in absolutes that you have to go so far down the route of defending him (when no one is attacking him) that you have to make things up, then you’ve already lost whatever debate you think you’re having. Veltman is many things, but a playmaker he absolutely is not. And to call his playmaking ability sublime is bordering on parody. There’s absolutely no evidence of that this season, apart from one pass in the Arsenal game. Estupinan on the other hand, is excellent at this role, often coming inside this season to play a number of key passes into attacking areas as an inverted fullback.
 




Uh_huh_him

Uh_huh_him

Well-known member
Sep 28, 2011
12,727
sussex_guy2k2 said:
Your last sentence is the problem. No one on here underrates Veltman. They underrate Lamptey. And those of us defending Lamptey are seen to be having a go at Veltman at his expense when that couldn’t be further from the truth. I think Veltman is an excellent player who’s a phenomenal defender, who generally makes us better.

But he’s not beyond reproach or criticism. And it’s not that wild to suggest Lamptey is better than him going forward. Literally every piece of evidence and data suggests this to be the case.

As to his playmaking abilities, let’s not be silly. If you’re so desperate to deal in absolutes that you have to go so far down the route of defending him (when no one is attacking him) that you have to make things up, then you’ve already lost whatever debate you think you’re having. Veltman is many things, but a playmaker he absolutely is not. And to call his playmaking ability sublime is bordering on parody. There’s absolutely no evidence of that this season, apart from one pass in the Arsenal game. Estupinan on the other hand, is excellent at this role, often coming inside this season to play a number of key passes into attacking areas as an inverted fullback.
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Ok I was interested in seeing the opposite position and then you talked about Estupinan's excellence.
He hasn't been that player for quite a while now.

Before the injury, he was equally excellent in attack and defense.
Currently he is neither.
 










aolstudios

aolstudios

Well-known member
Nov 30, 2011
5,560
brighton

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Zeberdi

Zeberdi

“Vorsprung durch Technik”
NSC Patron
Oct 20, 2022
7,697
Was excellent yesterday - he was progressing really deep into the oppo half at times - ( perhaps more out of frustration at the lack of press from the forwards).

Beautifully placed touch from Veltman too in finding Rutter at the far post for an old fashioned assist to Rutter’s first goal.

For me Veltman has become a ‘Grossmeister’ squad member - a quietly unassuming player, slightly underrated, but forms the backbone of our defence when he plays.

He also has a great personality - his obvious humour and impish ‘dark arts’ makes him one of the most loveable squad members in my book. 😍
 
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A1X

A1X

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Sep 1, 2017
21,233
Deepest, darkest Sussex
Another town where our boy will be chased out by the locals with pitchforks while grinning from ear to ear

Love it
 












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