[Albion] No trains for Brentford

[Milano]

Drivers want a second person on their trains, which used to be called a guard. The ROCs are still trying to do away with them.
Do you begrudge pilots their pay? Train drivers are responsible for as many lives.

So they’ll remove the pay rise bit if this is agreed? Will they f***.
Thameslink have not had a guard on the train since before COVID. I cant remember a single incident caused by this, I could be wrong and would stand corrected if there is a link to one?
As for comparing a train driver to a pilot, yeah right.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

So they’ll remove the pay rise bit if this is agreed? Will they f***.
Thameslink have not had a guard on the train since before COVID. I cant remember a single incident caused by this, I could be wrong and would stand corrected if there is a link to one?
As for comparing a train driver to a pilot, yeah right.

Two years training, one retake maximum on any test, trainee salary £24K, yearly medical, and responsible for hundreds bof lives.
Your mocking tone in your post says a lot about you.

 

[tricky]

I'm sorry, but when you comment about train drivers being responsible for hundreds of lives then it probably deserves mocking. As Milano mentions, has the removal of the guard actually had an affect - have near-misses increased? That's the real point.

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

Drivers want a second person on their trains, which used to be called a guard. The ROCs are still trying to do away with them.
Do you begrudge pilots their pay? Train drivers are responsible for as many lives.

I'm pretty sure that with a few hours training I could get to grips with driving a modern train. I definitely couldn't fly a plane.

I would say that, having had the experience of suddenly falling ill on a train, I think they should all have a second person on board.

 

[Milano]

Two years training, one retake maximum on any test, trainee salary £24K, yearly medical, and responsible for hundreds bof lives.
Your mocking tone in your post says a lot about you.

Degree in aviation or engineering. 2 years commercial training plus 100s of hours private flying time, then 5 years minimum as a Co-pilot. So that’s about 10 years before a pilot is fully in command of a commercial airliner.
Nothing at all against train drivers and I’m not mocking them at all, am I mocking comparing a train driver to a pilot - yes I am.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I'm pretty sure that with a few hours training I could get to grips with driving a modern train. I definitely couldn't fly a plane.

I would say that, having had the experience of suddenly falling ill on a train, I think they should all have a second person on board.

My daughter got her pilot's licence courtesy of a Flying Scholarship with the ATC, but then decided she didn't want to join the RAF (she'd passed the tests for Navigator at Biggin Hill)
It took her five goes to pass her driving test. Go figure.

 

[Justice]

I'm pretty sure that with a few hours training I could get to grips with driving a modern train. I definitely couldn't fly a plane.

I would say that, having had the experience of suddenly falling ill on a train, I think they should all have a second person on board.

Trains have an auto driver system, if the train doesn’t sense a response from the driver after one minute it takes over unless the driver cancels it. Almost impossible crash a train.

 

[Colonel Mustard]

Two years training, one retake maximum on any test, trainee salary £24K, yearly medical, and responsible for hundreds bof lives.
Your mocking tone in your post says a lot about you.

You've a lot of nerve to talk about drivers being ‘responsible for hundreds of lives' when they're happy to ruin the lives of those very same people by refusing to do their jobs. Just read this thread to see the misery they are causing those treasured passengers. You must be crazy to liken a train driver to an airline pilot. Driving a train in the modern era is relatively easy. They get wildly overpaid, not because what they do is very difficult, but because they have a lot of power.

 

[dazzer6666]

I'm pretty sure that with a few hours training I could get to grips with driving a modern train. I definitely couldn't fly a plane.

I would say that, having had the experience of suddenly falling ill on a train, I think they should all have a second person on board.

The training takes 12-18 months……drivers are with a ‘driver trainer’ for that whole period until they qualify

 

[Thunder Bolt]

@Justice

Your reply was within the previous quote so difficult to quote you, but derailments are often due to cracked rails, vandalism, suicidal jumpers etc, not to mention faulty signals.

 

[Milano]

My daughter got her pilot's licence courtesy of a Flying Scholarship with the ATC, but then decided she didn't want to join the RAF (she'd passed the tests for Navigator at Biggin Hill)
It took her five goes to pass her driving test. Go figure.

That ‘scholarship’ cost someone thousands and flying a Cessna is not like flying an A350!!

OK - what is more subject to risk - driving a train up a fixed track with tech failsafes literally everywhere or driving a coach full of people up the M1?
The train driver is trained in a closed shop and surrounded by other trained drivers. The coach driver has to share the road with people who took 5 attempts to pass their test!!
By your own comparisons a coach driver should be on more than a train driver then?

 

[Milano]

@Justice

Your reply was within the previous quote so difficult to quote you, but derailments are often due to cracked rails, vandalism, suicidal jumpers etc, not to mention faulty signals.

Agreed, none of which will be helped by having a guard on the train.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

That ‘scholarship’ cost someone thousands and flying a Cessna is not like flying an A350!!

OK - what is more subject to risk - driving a train up a fixed track with tech failsafes literally everywhere or driving a coach full of people up the M1?
The train driver is trained in a closed shop and surrounded by other trained drivers. The coach driver has to share the road with people who took 5 attempts to pass their test!!
By your own comparisons a coach driver should be on more than a train driver then?

How many points and signals does a coach driver have to negotiate on the M1. Maybe an odd matrix telling them a lane is closed?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Agreed, none of which will be helped by having a guard on the train.

Passenger safety is. Guards carried detonators to use on the line and were trained in first aid etc

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

@Justice

Your reply was within the previous quote so difficult to quote you, but derailments are often due to cracked rails, vandalism, suicidal jumpers etc, not to mention faulty signals.

If you'd like to talk about the pay rates for the civil engineers responsible for inspecting, assessing and designing out those risks, I'll be all over that*.

*Actually too busy and contractually obliged to not talk about it, but suffice to say it's not enough.

 

[schmunk]

How many points and signals does a coach driver have to negotiate on the M1. Maybe an odd matrix telling them a lane is closed?

You're being obtuse - the coach driver will need to navigate through numerous junctions, crossings, roundabouts, varying speed limits, narrow points, pulling out vehicles, pedestrians in the road, sudden braking ahead, etc. during a point-to-point journey, all without a physical barrier to their passengers.

Driving a coach or bus is significantly more difficult than driving a train, but is not given nearly the same status or pay.

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

You're being obtuse - the coach driver will need to navigate through numerous junctions, crossings, roundabouts, varying speed limits, narrow points, pulling out vehicles, pedestrians in the road, sudden braking ahead, etc. during a point-to-point journey, all without a physical barrier to their passengers.

Driving a coach or bus is significantly more difficult than driving a train, but is not given nearly the same status or pay.

Presumably one of the reasons why there's a shortage of bus drivers, as frequently discussed on here.

 

[jackalbion]

So they’ll remove the pay rise bit if this is agreed? Will they f***.
Thameslink have not had a guard on the train since before COVID. I cant remember a single incident caused by this, I could be wrong and would stand corrected if there is a link to one?
As for comparing a train driver to a pilot, yeah right.

It depends on route, there have been incidents that could have been prevented with a guard but they are mainly a passenger safety viewpoint. For what its worth, taking them off Thameslink and BML services is correct but taking them off Coastway Routes and smaller branchlines would diminish safety standards.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

You're being obtuse - the coach driver will need to navigate through numerous junctions, crossings, roundabouts, varying speed limits, narrow points, pulling out vehicles, pedestrians in the road, sudden braking ahead, etc. during a point-to-point journey, all without a physical barrier to their passengers.

Driving a coach or bus is significantly more difficult than driving a train, but is not given nearly the same status or pay.

Roundabouts on the M1?

Sudden braking when you see a trolley thrown onto the tracks or a person standing in the way as you drive round a bend at 80mh?

 

[schmunk]

Roundabouts on the M1?

Sudden braking when you see a trolley thrown onto the tracks or a person standing in the way as you drive round a bend at 80mh?

You're still being obtuse. Coaches don't just drive on the motorway.

Yes, train drivers might sometimes need to use emergency braking, but (without any data or the desire to obtain it) I'll wager coach/bus drivers do it far more often.