No Southern Trains Tuesday, Wednesday and Friday

[beorhthelm]

This is probably a stupid question, but is delay repay valid during the strikes?

yes, you get the full single fare. unfortunatly not two as far as i can tell.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Spot on, it's a race to the bottom, same as the issue with the Guards, if my Mrs is.travelling home from London at.11.o clock at night I want a bloody guard on the train

I currently commute to London once or twice a week and will be taking a job in January that will involve commuting four or five days a week initially while I'm trained and meet the new team. Selfishly I just want the trains to run and I've reached the point where I don't care who sorts it out as long as someone does. However, you make a very good point. My Mrs was listening to the debate about it on the Today programme this morning and she said that she'd feel a lot safer with a guard on the train and so would her friends.

 

[mothy]

I've ducked out of these threads for a while and will probably do so again but having read a lot of the vitriol and some more informed comment (even if I don't agree with it all) I'm just going to say this. This is my personal opinion - and I won't be going back and forth over the arguments and history of DOO again because I think, as Bozza said about 200 pages in the original thread, the arguments just go round in circles but...I will be going on strike not because I'm a 70s dinosaur (I'm not), not because I'm a RMT or ASLEF “puppet” (I'm not) and not because I'm against modernisation (I'm not). I will be going on strike because I absolutely, fundamentally, hand on heart believe it is the right and only thing to do in the circumstances. I believe that the extension of DOO will make the railway a less safe, less pleasant and less customer focused place (at best it just removes one layer of safety and customer service), especially for the disabled, the vulnerable, the elderly etc. I am convinced that the changes already being imposed by GTR and the government are nothing whatsoever to do with improving customer service and have everything to do with cutting costs (none of which will be passed on to customers). I am certain that none of their plans have anything to do with “modernisation” (apart from a few new Gatwick Express trains, nothing has changed) and am equally certain that if the guards' role at Southern is lost then they will be ultimately lost throughout the network. I also know (because it is happening every day) that the “exceptional circumstances” where a train may be allowed to leave without an On Board Supervisor is already basically “whenever it suits Southern.” I also know that this is government/Dft led but I am not especially anti-Tory – that's just a fact and it is exceptionally frustrating when you hear Grayling and Co coming out with blatant untruths and distorted truths that the general public believe (see today's statement about state of the art trains which have nothing whatsoever to do with the dispute). We may lose the fight but, if we do, I will at least I will be able to say I stood up for what I believed in and, if there is a major incident in the future, I can say I did all I could to prevent it. And on the anniversary of the Clapham disaster it's worth remembering that ensuring a safe railway is the ultimate objective.

You may argue that if I don't like the changes I can leave, you may argue that the railway is better with fewer staff and driver only trains, you may argue that you don't care about the causes of the dispute; all you want is to get to your destination - and they are valid objections but rather than just throw abuse at us perhaps at least understand why we are striking. I wouldn't expect the travelling public to throw their unwavering support behind us when they can't get to work, to football or to their families but you should at least know that for this driver at least, and I believe the vast majority of drivers about to go on strike, I am genuinely doing this in the hope that you will have a better, safer and more reliable service in the future. Again, I thank those on this site who, even though they are having hellish journeys every day, have expressed support, can see the bigger picture and can see what is actually happening and are doing their best to inform others. I have never been on strike before (it is not a decision I have taken lightly – I don't like throwing away at least 6 days pay and depriving people of the chance to travel) and am hoping that the strikes and threat of strikes will mean the government will enable GTR to think again about their ill-thought-out plans and we will see a return to a fully staffed, safe and hopefully bit more reliable railway. Again, I'm not going to debate the issues again – I just wanted people to know that we are not “scum” as we have been called on here – and rightly or wrongly I believe we are doing the right thing.
And just to answer one question from today – we already use simulators in training, they are not very good but they are used.

Fair play to you pal. Sadly I think you are arguing against inevitability & therefore you will not win.

Whatever your motives (which I do respect) I do respect people who make a stand for what they believe in & do it for others.

However. I am stuck in the middle of this & enough is enough. Modernisation is happening whether you, I or we like it & change needs to be embraced & made to work for the better.

Frankly this is a massive stain on the south & the UK railway industry. I'm sure cart horses complained about tractors bit they've learned to live with it. We need to move with the times & deliver a modern service. I'm more interested whether they'll invest in the track than who says the train can leave. Slam door trains worked for years. I'm sure doo are much safer than them. That argument is floored

 

[pearl]

I've ducked out of these threads for a while and will probably do so again but having read a lot of the vitriol and some more informed comment (even if I don't agree with it all) I'm just going to say this. This is my personal opinion - and I won't be going back and forth over the arguments and history of DOO again because I think, as Bozza said about 200 pages in the original thread, the arguments just go round in circles but...I will be going on strike not because I'm a 70s dinosaur (I'm not), not because I'm a RMT or ASLEF “puppet” (I'm not) and not because I'm against modernisation (I'm not). I will be going on strike because I absolutely, fundamentally, hand on heart believe it is the right and only thing to do in the circumstances. I believe that the extension of DOO will make the railway a less safe, less pleasant and less customer focused place (at best it just removes one layer of safety and customer service), especially for the disabled, the vulnerable, the elderly etc. I am convinced that the changes already being imposed by GTR and the government are nothing whatsoever to do with improving customer service and have everything to do with cutting costs (none of which will be passed on to customers). I am certain that none of their plans have anything to do with “modernisation” (apart from a few new Gatwick Express trains, nothing has changed) and am equally certain that if the guards' role at Southern is lost then they will be ultimately lost throughout the network. I also know (because it is happening every day) that the “exceptional circumstances” where a train may be allowed to leave without an On Board Supervisor is already basically “whenever it suits Southern.” I also know that this is government/Dft led but I am not especially anti-Tory – that's just a fact and it is exceptionally frustrating when you hear Grayling and Co coming out with blatant untruths and distorted truths that the general public believe (see today's statement about state of the art trains which have nothing whatsoever to do with the dispute). We may lose the fight but, if we do, I will at least I will be able to say I stood up for what I believed in and, if there is a major incident in the future, I can say I did all I could to prevent it. And on the anniversary of the Clapham disaster it's worth remembering that ensuring a safe railway is the ultimate objective.

You may argue that if I don't like the changes I can leave, you may argue that the railway is better with fewer staff and driver only trains, you may argue that you don't care about the causes of the dispute; all you want is to get to your destination - and they are valid objections but rather than just throw abuse at us perhaps at least understand why we are striking. I wouldn't expect the travelling public to throw their unwavering support behind us when they can't get to work, to football or to their families but you should at least know that for this driver at least, and I believe the vast majority of drivers about to go on strike, I am genuinely doing this in the hope that you will have a better, safer and more reliable service in the future. Again, I thank those on this site who, even though they are having hellish journeys every day, have expressed support, can see the bigger picture and can see what is actually happening and are doing their best to inform others. I have never been on strike before (it is not a decision I have taken lightly – I don't like throwing away at least 6 days pay and depriving people of the chance to travel) and am hoping that the strikes and threat of strikes will mean the government will enable GTR to think again about their ill-thought-out plans and we will see a return to a fully staffed, safe and hopefully bit more reliable railway. Again, I'm not going to debate the issues again – I just wanted people to know that we are not “scum” as we have been called on here – and rightly or wrongly I believe we are doing the right thing.
And just to answer one question from today – we already use simulators in training, they are not very good but they are used.

glad you are OK, last post of yours I read was quite depressing ..... thanks for posting

 

[ferris_ferrit]

Some balanced reporting from the BBC:

Passengers have suffered months of disruption in the dispute, which is about whose job it should be to open and close the train doors, but this is the first strike by Aslef drivers.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-38296623

 

[mothy]

Rubbish , the extremely helpful bloke on the barrier at Haywards Heath (his name is sav any of his bosses are reading this)only last week told me to go to the ticket office as the machine couldn't do my ticket as cheap as the office.

The guy at hove has twice offered us more expensive tickets than we know are available. Lovely chap - doesn't take kindly to people telling him we want the other cheaper tickets

 

[alfredmizen]

The guy at hove has twice offered us more expensive tickets than we know are available. Lovely chap - doesn't take kindly to people telling him we want the other cheaper tickets

Which is a sad state of affairs but doesnt detract from my original point.

 

[The Clamp]

Anyone who doesn't feel safe on trains with no guard is free to withdraw their custom. Anyone who doesn't like using machines to buy tickets is free to withdraw their custom.
There are thousands who are fine with both and would like to get back on the move.

 

[CHAPPERS]

The disabled have been compeltely and totally forgotten in this argument and that's an absolute disgrace.

 

[Tony Meolas Loan Spell]

This is "they" Southern/the govt whoever are trying to get DOO in on the cheap.

Sadly the answer is to spend lots of money. Then the unions have no argument. Until then it holds some water. However I too have reached the stage of I just want it ****ing sorted frankly.

 

[Randsta]

Well that was a fun drive this morning Not going to bother tomorrow!

 

[The Clamp]

The disabled have been compeltely and totally forgotten in this argument and that's an absolute disgrace.

Quite right. I'm surprised that the issue of duty of care hasn't been used to kick Southern into touch. I would assume duty of care would require them to provide either a guard or staff on every platform.

 

[Gwylan]

Quite right. I'm surprised that the issue of duty of care hasn't been used to kick Southern into touch. I would assume duty of care would require them to provide either a guard or staff on every platform.

I don't know the ins and outs of equality legislation but there may be a get out clause for transport. London Underground doesn't have disabled access at every station and, as I've never seen suggestion of legal action against TfL, I assume that's acceptable (legally at least)

 

[Spiros]

Quite right. I'm surprised that the issue of duty of care hasn't been used to kick Southern into touch. I would assume duty of care would require them to provide either a guard or staff on every platform.

TBH I'm more surprised that makers of buses can get them to lower to pavement level so that a wheelchair users can board unassisted but the makers of trains seem incapable of fitting some sort of ramp which can be deployed by the wheelchair user just pressing a button themselves. It's as if the entire rail industry has got stuck in the previous century - management, staff, unions, trainmakers, the lot

 

[The Clamp]

TBH I'm more surprised that makers of buses can get them to lower to pavement level so that a wheelchair users can board unassisted but the makers of trains seem incapable of fitting some sort of ramp which can be deployed by the wheelchair user just pressing a button themselves. It's as if the entire rail industry has got stuck in the previous century - management, staff, unions, trainmakers, the lot

That's a good point.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Anyone who doesn't feel safe on trains with no guard is free to withdraw their custom. Anyone who doesn't like using machines to buy tickets is free to withdraw their custom.
There are thousands who are fine with both and would like to get back on the move.

Today is a good example of what would happen if everyone did withdraw their custom - chaos on the roads and productivity down across the south east of England. But in any case you're quite close to saying "the vulnerable can just f*** off" there.

 

[The Clamp]

Today is a good example of what would happen if everyone did withdraw their custom - chaos on the roads and productivity down across the south east of England. But in any case you're quite close to saying "the vulnerable can just f*** off" there.

Yes, I suppose it does come across a bit like that. A symptom of frustration I suppose. However the current rail chaos has left millions vulnerable to losing jobs, stress, and financial burden.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Yes, I suppose it does come across a bit like that. A symptom of frustration I suppose. However the current rail chaos has left millions vulnerable to losing jobs, stress, and financial burden.

Certainly agree with the latter bit. I have no doubt that if the January strikes happen I'll have to stay up in London at cost to myself (new employer so I doubt they'll cover it) and not see my wife and kids for a few days - the alternative being not having work at all. However, the railways need to run for everyone, not just commuters.

 

[CHAPPERS]

However, the railways need to run for everyone, not just commuters.

Yup, students and schoolkids are pretty ****ed.

 

[Gwylan]

Yup, students and schoolkids are pretty ****ed.

That's a good point. What happens when kids are travelling from Lewes or Eastbourne to go to St Richards in Bexhill for example (I know there quite a few of those because Mrs G used to work at St R and saw loads on the train)? Do they get the day off school or are they marked as unauthorised absentees so parents get letter from authorities?