[News] Nigel Farage and Reform

[Eric the meek]

I don't think @Wallace will be happy until the Channel Tunnel is bricked up and all spaghetti is banned from supermarkets

This morning, I have enjoyed a full ENGLISH breakfast. ENGLISH eggs, toast, Lurpak butter, marmite, Cumberland sausages, Danepak bacon and Guernsey tomatoes.

Before anyone says, I know Guernsey is worryingly close to France, but I'll take the chance because I like their tomatoes.

 

[dsr-burnley]

You’re not sure Churchill had much to do with it?

Winston Churchill and the Council of Europe - Documents, Records and Archives - www.coe.int

www.coe.int

The ECHR does not dictate national policy to any country. A group of Swiss women complained to the Court that their own government were not protecting them.

Switzerland condemned by the ECHR: a decisive step for climate justice in Europe

The verdict of the European Court of Human Rights states that Switzerland does not adequately protect its citizens from the effects of climate change, which constitutes a violation of their human rights.

www.justiceinfo.net

We live and learn, perhaps. Though I don't see much about the ECHR in there. Like I said, Churchill was a keen proponent of European integration, but not with the UK as part of it - the UK had the Empire and Commonwealth as its primary international support.

As for the "not dictating national policy", that's surely a matter of semantics. The ECHR has told Switzerland that its national policy is wrong and illegal. (Besides, it's a strange case. They were sued on the grounds that warmer weather is bad for old people. Received wisdom for centuries has been that cold weather is bad for the old; the number of Americans moving to Florida in old age suggests that their old people haven't learned to love the snow and fear the sun. )

 

[carlzeiss]

It’s astonishing how much money the hard right Islamophobic owner of GB News is losing per year. Millions of pounds payed out to spread his nasty propaganda. That channel hasn’t a chance of turning a profit.

Let’s hope that once elected, Sir Keir forces open the mouth of Ofcom and gives it some proper teeth so they can take action against all that disgraceful channel rather than issue just another warning. He should also kick the Tories out of the BBC and make sure it can never be led by partisan political appointees again.

Let's hope so and also make the BBC available by subscription only for those that wish to utilize their services with the license fee scrapped for good .

 

[Thunder Bolt]

We live and learn, perhaps. Though I don't see much about the ECHR in there. Like I said, Churchill was a keen proponent of European integration, but not with the UK as part of it - the UK had the Empire and Commonwealth as its primary international support.

As for the "not dictating national policy", that's surely a matter of semantics. The ECHR has told Switzerland that its national policy is wrong and illegal. (Besides, it's a strange case. They were sued on the grounds that warmer weather is bad for old people. Received wisdom for centuries has been that cold weather is bad for the old; the number of Americans moving to Florida in old age suggests that their old people haven't learned to love the snow and fear the sun. )

It was Swiss women who went to the court against their own government. Their rights were being protected.

I hate to tell you but the Empire is gone, and much of the Commonwealth is voluntary, not there to ‘support’ Britain.

 

[JBizzle]

I have no problem at all with immigration into the UK at all. Some of the best people I've met have been what you'd term as economic immigrants, and we've all seen the impact that destroying our immigration system through Brexit has had a hugely negative effect in so many sector that rely on importing talent from around Europe.

1 in 6 or 1 in 30? I genuinely couldn't care less.

The problem is that this government has spent the last years actively not dealing with immigration effectively because it's a useful political tool. Re-open legitimate asylum channels, process immigrants in a more efficient and timely manner and reopen agreements that allow us to return immigrants that don't qualify.

As it stands though, if the government do that, they can't continue shouting "STOP THE BOATS!" and "RWANDA!" at people, and it's really all they have left. The Tory party has no credibility as a fiscally responsible party any more and Reform are using immigration as a headline. Fixing immigration does them no favours at all politically so, guess what? They won't fix it.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Well since every Reform supporter on here so far who has raised leaving the ECHR as one of their key policies can't give any reason for why we should leave the ECHR or what it would allow us to do that we can't do now, other than it is European, I have a proposal.

I believe that doing a 'find and replace' on 'European Court of Human Rights' with 'Traditional British Court of Human Rights' on all literature used in Britain but leaving everything else the same will address all the issues that the various Reform posters on here have raised about the ECHR

Right. What's the next policy

 

[Zeberdi]

Sunak’s oft repeated lie calling the ECHR a foreign court (even in the last few days).
Goebbels - repeat a lie often enough and it becomes accepted.

The ECHR is both the EUROPEAN COURT on HUMAN RIGHTS based in Straasbourg and the EUROPEAN CONVENTION on HUMAN RIGHTS just to be clear.

And if we leave the Convention, judgments by the European Court on Human Rights will no longer apply to us.

The European Convention on Human Rights: leave or stay? You decide | Institute for Government

The question of whether to leave or stay in the ECHR is live again (when is it not?)

www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk

The European Court of Human Rights - Council of Europe Office in Georgia - www.coe.int

www.coe.int

 

[dsr-burnley]

It was Swiss women who went to the court against their own government. Their rights were being protected.

I hate to tell you but the Empire is gone, and much of the Commonwealth is voluntary, not there to ‘support’ Britain.

The point is that the ECHR has told the democratically elected Swiss government that they should not be implementing their current government policy.

If you hate to tell me that the Empire has gone, then don't tell me. It's irrelevant to a discussion of Churchill's views in the 1940's. If you hate doing things, and they are of no relevance and don't have to be done, then don't do them. Simples.

 

[Bodian]

It's more than 1 in 30. 1 in 30 is the proportion of the population that has arrived in the last 2 years.

But it's less than 1 in 6. 1 in 6 is the proportion of people who can be identified as "ethnic minorities", essentially people with darker skin, but the establishment will not accept them as simply "British" - however long they have lived here, they remain "ethnic minorities". Many if not most of them should be and are fully integrated British in practice, but there are vested interests making out that they are still "different" because of the colour of their skin.

That's not quite right though. The 1 in 6 (10m+) is made up of:

• Those who were born outside the UK who were also in the UK as of the year ending June 2022. This includes:
  • People in the UK with UK citizenship who were born overseas
  • People in the UK with any kind of foreign citizenship who were born overseas
• May not count certain groups of people such as those in communal living spaces such as hostels or some student halls
• May be slightly smaller than the actual number of immigrants in the UK due to survey non-responses and changes to survey methods due to the pandemic
• Counts both foreign-born nationals who are UK temporarily and those who are settled (or who intend to settle) in the UK long-term

So - anyone with dual citizenship born overseas - including those born to British parents who were abroad at the time (so, for example, my wife's niece who is as old-fashioned English as you can imagine, from a string of English ancestors - has only been abroad once, to the USA with her husband on a year-long work exchange - had a son whilst there, the son is technically classed as an 'immigrant' by the above definitions), along with folk like Boris, Sunak's parents, and so on.

How Many Immigrants Are in the UK? - UK Immigration Data | IAS

The UK’s immigrant population is rising year on year. Statistics can demonstrate how many immigrants are living in the UK compared to the UK-born population.

iasservices.org.uk

 

[Springal]

 

[Bodian]

The point is that the ECHR has told the democratically elected Swiss government that they should not be implementing their current government policy.

If you hate to tell me that the Empire has gone, then don't tell me. It's irrelevant to a discussion of Churchill's views in the 1940's. If you hate doing things, and they are of no relevance and don't have to be done, then don't do them. Simples.

Again - that's not quite correct.

The Swiss Parliament have considered the ECHR decision, and have decided not to implement it. Sovereignty is still with the Swiss Government.

And also the ECHR did not say that the Swiss Government should not be implementing their current policy - but told them that they should also be doing more.

 

[WATFORD zero]

The point is that the ECHR has told the democratically elected Swiss government that they should not be implementing their current government policy.

If you hate to tell me that the Empire has gone, then don't tell me. It's irrelevant to a discussion of Churchill's views in the 1940's. If you hate doing things, and they are of no relevance and don't have to be done, then don't do them. Simples.

As @Bodian pointed out above, about as relevant as your 'colour of skin' and 'ethnic minorities' to immigration

It's more than 1 in 30. 1 in 30 is the proportion of the population that has arrived in the last 2 years.

But it's less than 1 in 6. 1 in 6 is the proportion of people who can be identified as "ethnic minorities", essentially people with darker skin, but the establishment will not accept them as simply "British" - however long they have lived here, they remain "ethnic minorities". Many if not most of them should be and are fully integrated British in practice, but there are vested interests making out that they are still "different" because of the colour of their skin.

I can't imagine why you mentioned it

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

This morning, I have enjoyed a full ENGLISH breakfast. ENGLISH eggs, toast, Lurpak butter, marmite, Cumberland sausages, Danepak bacon and Guernsey tomatoes.

Before anyone says, I know Guernsey is worryingly close to France, but I'll take the chance because I like their tomatoes.

And the Danish cows? For all intents and purposes, East Anglian?

 

[Pevenseagull]

Right. What's the next policy

How about the economy?


Some professionals have analysed Reform's proposals.

I'm no economist but it does appear that, unsurprisingly, they amount to little more than a 'back of a fag packet' populist wish list that makes Kwasi Kwarteng look like Adam Smith.

Our take on the Reform UK manifesto

Reform UK has published its manifesto. They plan personal tax cuts which they say will cost £70bn; however our analysis shows that they’ve miscalculated, and the actual cost will be at least £88bn.

taxpolicy.org.uk

 

[Nobby]

The point is that the ECHR has told the democratically elected Swiss government that they should not be implementing their current government policy.

If you hate to tell me that the Empire has gone, then don't tell me. It's irrelevant to a discussion of Churchill's views in the 1940's. If you hate doing things, and they are of no relevance and don't have to be done, then don't do them. Simples.

I assume you're voting for Reform.
I mean I know I can't be sure from all of your previous posts - maybe a magin of error of around 0.000000001%

So, what is your view on your dear leader's view on Ukraine?
Do you think we should commence peace talks? I know you don't think much of Churchill, but surely you can't think that Neville Chamberlain had it right?

 

[Eric the meek]

And the Danish cows? For all intents and purposes, East Anglian?

Danish cows? Nobody told me about that.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

And they all had to pay £5 to see him. Access to hustings/politicians should be free.

 

[worthingseagull123]

Don’t be lazy. It’s quite easy to look up the equivalent in other regions. I’ll give you one for a starter.

Australia is a party to the seven core international human rights treaties: the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR) the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights (ICESCR) the International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination (CERD)

Exactly. If we leave the ECHR, who is to say we wont have a comparable constitution for our own citizens, with certain absolute and qualified rights for UK citizens.

 

[Curious Orange]

What human rights do we have in the UK that people in Canada, USA, Japan, Australia and New Zealand do not have?

In the UK we can do whatever we wish provided it isn't against the law.

 

[Curious Orange]

Heck, we're nearly all immigrants if you go back far enough - all of us except for the pure bred Celts in the far corners of the land.

No including them too, the Celts pushed the native Pict population out of Scotland.