[News] Nigel Farage and Reform

[Weststander]

He wasn’t. He just had a brilliant PR team and the media behind him.

And once he had power, he scared everyone into following his rule because they became aware of the consequences of not doing so.

Basically the Tories over the past 8 years, just without the genocide.

I think of that as a coup by the back door. Somehow, almost overnight, the likes of Rudd and Remain Tory MP's / old fashioned Tories were booted out or shunted to one side.

I don't get as emotive about it as your analogy to Hitler, for many reasons. We live in a democracy, in July 2024 they were annihilated at the ballot box. No one was murdered or forced to flee murder, far from it, our population continued to grow hugely each year from inwards migration (no one disputes the stats).

I'm more concerned in the here and now. With the sizeable proportion of Brits 'educated' on social media who like Farage, Putin et al. In any other era these stirrers would be fifth columnists.

 

[Guinness Boy]

I think this is a very simplistic comparison.

In fairness, immigration needs addressing. Open borders are unsustainable, most moderates agree on this according to the polls, it’s certainly not an exclusively right wing cause célèbre.

But that's completely as a result of the far right shifting attitudes enabled by media, using lies, misinformation and inaccurate labelling. For asylum seekers see "illegals" (seeking asylum is not illegal). The shift from workers from the EU coming here to pick apples and work in hotels to people from outside the EU increasingly arriving on student or professional visas is mostly overlooked in the moral panic about small boats. We have allowed the conversation to be shifted rightwards by Farage, a man who had no MPs until the last election, has three now and has already fallen out with one of his Reform winners, as well as abandoning his constituency.

I'll put this in football terms. For years Brighton fans have been told they hate Palace because of our traditional rivalry, but it's often only acted out by the most extreme or hardcore of fans. If someone was allowed to go around the Amex on the day of our next home game telling everyone that Palace fans - ALL Palace fans - in town had been knifing people, raping young, female Brighton fans and breaking into the ground then I think a poll would see quite a few middle of the road Brighton fans taking against Palace fans! You see how they do it?

I regularly walk the dog with a lovely couple, good friends of ours but right of centre moderate. Middle class, rugby union and The Times, professional jobs. In the three and a half years I've known them they've not once raised immigration as an issue. You say 'sample size of one'. I say if 'most moderates agree' then they should have by now.

The country needs immigration to be economically stable, or else it needs its young people to do a LOT more unprotected shagging. Wouldn't it be good if we could discuss how to achieve this safely and sustainably, instead of demonising the first part without dealing with the second.

 

[bazbha]

Now , I know I am a pinko, left wing commie ( voted Lib Dem last election ) but who on earth looks at reform , their leader, the current MPs the whole party structure the all over the place policy’s and thinks “ that’s the party for me”

As Mr Lee once commented “ it’s like shitting in you hotel bed as a protest, then realising you then have to sleep in that shitted bed” just look at the way Clacton has been abandoned by its grifter of an MP.

Maybe people who voted Conservative and saw the disaster that the last Government became and / or voted Labour this time and are arguably now seeing the current Government are even worse? Not saying Reform are the answer but the 2 main parties are so dreadful so no wonder people are looking at an alternative.

 

[Eeyore]

I wonder how many on here proudly supporting Reform will comment on this ?

Needs a bit of context. Hitler was clearly brilliant at inspiring people, but alas to do awful things. I don't agree with the Ukraine statement though.

It is important to look at the whole story rather than isolated take outs. It's a problem with the modern age.

There was once a test conducted on folk where they were given a series of quotes, they just didn't know they were from Hitler. Folk agreed with much of what they heard, it was just that all the nasty stuff had been taken out. A very clever and fascinating exercise.

Coming back to Reform, folk would do well to be mindful of the above exercise, scratch below the surface and you see some very concerning behaviour.

 

[loz]

Maybe people who voted Conservative and saw the disaster that the last Government became and / or voted Labour this time and are arguably now seeing the current Government are even worse? Not saying Reform are the answer but the 2 main parties are so dreadful so no wonder people are looking at an alternative.

Are they though, whoever got in had 14 years of mismanagement to clear up Labour have got 5 years to try and clear it up.
They either took a paint round the edges approach where no one would be upset or get the yard broom out and try and get things sorted quickly upsetting people on the way.

It’s not right to pay ALL pensioners £200
Why should farmers not pay IHT
The benefit system has been abused for years
NHS England was a money pit it needed sorting

All of that will upset certain people but it needed doing IMHO.

 

[lawros left foot]

I agree with nearly everything you say @loz

I’m not so sure about the actions they want to take with the disabled, but it appears the backbench Labour MPs are going to stop that.
There is also a lot Labour have done that isn’t reported in the main stream media.

I do wish they would go after the huge businesses and the billionaires though.

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

Maybe people who voted Conservative and saw the disaster that the last Government became and / or voted Labour this time and are arguably now seeing the current Government are even worse? Not saying Reform are the answer but the 2 main parties are so dreadful so no wonder people are looking at an alternative.

Laughable. If you think reform is the answer then you really do need to take your head for a shit. Reform are racist and hate minorities end of!
BTW, you saying ‘Not saying Reform are the answer’ is actually you saying they are.

 

[TomandJerry]

"Nigel Farage has presented 29 councillors who have joined Reform UK as he tries to move his party on from a damaging rift surrounding the suspension of one of its MPs, Rupert Lowe.

The new Reform councillors were introduced at an event where Farage said his party needed “old lags” – including 15 councillors leaving the Tories, one who left Liberal Democrats and a range of independents. They included a Cheshire councillor who had previously quit Labour in a row over transgender policy."

 

[WATFORD zero]

Laughable. If you think reform is the answer then you really do need to take your head for a shit. Reform are racist and hate minorities end of!
BTW, you saying ‘Not saying Reform are the answer’ is actually you saying they are.

I was struggling to find the right words. You obviously didn't

 

[WATFORD zero]

"Nigel Farage has presented 29 councillors who have joined Reform UK as he tries to move his party on from a damaging rift surrounding the suspension of one of its MPs, Rupert Lowe.

The new Reform councillors were introduced at an event where Farage said his party needed “old lags” – including 15 councillors leaving the Tories, one who left Liberal Democrats and a range of independents. They included a Cheshire councillor who had previously quit Labour in a row over transgender policy."

You do realise there are over 17,000 councillors in the UK. Can you even imagine how many complete racist, fascist loons there are in those 17,000 ?

If you're struggling, NSC has a bit of experience with two prospective councillors, the Islamophobic, anti disabled one of which actually got elected as the better one

 

[Wardy's twin]

View attachment 198378



I be been thinking about this


As well as the Tories,Reform, UKIP. Starmers Labour have now adopted nearly all these policies.
Tough on immigration, refusing to do the sensible thing and rejoin the EU, more prisons to be built ( eventually), there aren’t any communists left to fight, and they are cutting overseas aid to build up the Armed Forces.


Looks very much to me like the hard right has won.

The UK is not a left wing country , for labour to survive as a government it needs to reflect the views of that country and try to moderate the more extreme right.

 

[Eeyore]

The UK is not a left wing country , for labour to survive as a government it needs to reflect the views of that country and try to moderate the more extreme right.

The UK has always been a very confused country that is governed by headlines. The word 'socialism' only became a dirty word when the right wing papers made it that. Except that the system of governance is underpinned by it. Take away the NHS, stop benefits etc and there would be uproar. I remember having this conversation with a late friend who was a Tory member. I would suggest that most UK folk are probably social democrats at heart. The present government therefore probably is closest to that billing.

I don't know if Labour are doing well or not because I don't have the time to form an intense view. And it's pretty worthless reading the papers on such matters as they are full of bias, either way.

 

[Wardy's twin]

The UK has always been a very confused country that is governed by headlines. The word 'socialism' only became a dirty word when the right wing papers made it that. Except that the system of governance is underpinned by it. Take away the NHS, stop benefits etc and there would be uproar. I remember having this conversation with a late friend who was a Tory member. I would suggest that most UK folk are probably social democrats at heart. The present government therefore probably is closest to that billing.

I don't know if Labour are doing well or not because I don't have the time to form an intense view. And it's pretty worthless reading the papers on such matters as they are full of bias, either way.

Agreed . The Labour party is no longer a working class party , does a working class actually still exist even? . Traditional trades often earn more than middle managers , factories and places of production are minimal generally people are richer. Labour has to be centre party (social democrat) if it wants to survive and that means taking the right of centre views as it becomes disavowed by the 'left'.

 

[abc]

Not many of these NF policies that aren’t now only Reform/UKIP but Conservative Party policies.


View attachment 198368

In fairness they are more labour than Tory!

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Maybe people who voted Conservative and saw the disaster that the last Government became and / or voted Labour this time and are arguably now seeing the current Government are even worse? Not saying Reform are the answer but the 2 main parties are so dreadful so no wonder people are looking at an alternative.

One of them was and probably still is.
The other one was some years ago, but now isn't.

You are either not paying attention, not able to pay attention (let's assume this is not the case; I don't wish to be rude, dear), messing about, or you have fallen for the Farrage bullshit

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Agreed . The Labour party is no longer a working class party , does a working class actually still exist even? . Traditional trades often earn more than middle managers , factories and places of production are minimal generally people are richer. Labour has to be centre party (social democrat) if it wants to survive and that means taking the right of centre views as it becomes disavowed by the 'left'.

The labour party ceased to be a 'working class party' in the 80s when it realized the majority of its support was middle class.
The Labour party IS a centrist party (which is why my lefty brother hates Labour).
There is no need for the 'left' to 'disavow' labour.
They are welcome to do so if they have given up the will to live, of course.
And cannot compromise with the electorate.
But that would be terribly pathetic, in my view

Incidentally, please stop punctuating like Bushy . Or I may struggle to take your comments seriously .

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

The UK is not a left wing country , for labour to survive as a government it needs to reflect the views of that country and try to moderate the more extreme right.

Same comment as above . Really irritating that you can ' t be bothered to type properly . Not the best way to communicate .

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

The UK has always been a very confused country that is governed by headlines. The word 'socialism' only became a dirty word when the right wing papers made it that. Except that the system of governance is underpinned by it. Take away the NHS, stop benefits etc and there would be uproar. I remember having this conversation with a late friend who was a Tory member. I would suggest that most UK folk are probably social democrats at heart. The present government therefore probably is closest to that billing.

I don't know if Labour are doing well or not because I don't have the time to form an intense view. And it's pretty worthless reading the papers on such matters as they are full of bias, either way.

How is the Pound In Your Pocket?
Have you been roughed up by a policeman recently?
Have you been Overcharged and denied a refund?
Are you kept awake all hours by a continuous dub reggae sound system?
Or a woman screaming 'leaver her, Dwayne, she's not werf it'?
Or gunfire?
Or the rumbling of your malnourished stomach?
Or the panicky thought of how the f*** you will pay the rent?
Or the smell of burning tyres?

If these are not troubling questions you can cast you mind to whether HMG seems likely to fend off a nuclear war
Or tumble us into one
Or help the other nations fend of global warming
Or tumble us into lovely warm summers, and no need to holiday abroad . . .
And whatabout windpower?

Choices, choices.
We can choose to make them or choose to not.