NHS funding etc Pay more tax ?

[ditchy]

I work effing hard and I earn good money. I pay tax at 40%.
I pay 17.5% VAT on pretty much everything I buy. I pay nearly £1 / litre for my 70 mile drive to work and back. I pay 11% National Insurance, but also buy private medical care with BUPA as the NHS is shite. I also pay for a final salary pension (with help from my gorgeous, fragrant employer) as I'm 36 and when I retire state pensions will be worth jack. I also pay £150 / month council tax so the refuse collecters can chuck rubbish all over my drive every Monday AND expect a tip at xmas.

Want MORE £££ off me for the NHS / anything else ?? f*** OFF

:angry

Sorry -- am calming down now.

so true .. i dont mind paying if we get a service

 

[ditchy]

I would also ban private health companies and private schools, which are creating a two-tier system in this country which allows the elite and the selfish to look after themselves and do f*** all about solving the problems of the NHS and the education system

Thats so cock LI .. go and speak to half the people who scrimp and save to send their kids to private school , in the belief that they are giving their kids a better education or are not satisfied with the state system .. its not about eliteism ... Also why not have private healthcare if you can afford it and it takes burden off NHS why not.. We should be encouraged to stand on our own two feet rather than rely on the state to support us ..

 

[zefarelly]

I'd love to think a few pennies on the pound in tax would improve mediacal care and education, but the reality is it won't.

until the NHS descends into total chaos and collapse I will resist paying NI, Tax and additional medical insurance and educational costs as I simply can't afford it, but the second it gets beyond being what I'd consider safe, I'll have to seriously consider it

 

[Chicken Run]

I would also ban private health companies and private schools, which are creating a two-tier system in this country which allows the elite and the selfish to look after themselves and do f*** all about solving the problems of the NHS and the education system

Oh dear, letting yourself down again

 

[Barrel of Fun]

Thats so cock LI .. go and speak to half the people who scrimp and save to send their kids to private school , in the belief that they are giving their kids a better education or are not satisfied with the state system .. its not about eliteism ... Also why not have private healthcare if you can afford it and it takes burden off NHS why not.. We should be encouraged to stand on our own two feet rather than rely on the state to support us ..

Very true.

Without private healthcare and private education the country would be groaning and creaking under the severe pressure.

A huge amount of money is generated by private schools through tax, VAT etc.

I can see why you might be anti private healthcare (loss of resources to non private patients ie Drs, nurses) LI, but private education Same reasons?

 

[Starry]

I would also ban private health companies and private schools, which are creating a two-tier system in this country which allows the elite and the selfish to look after themselves and do f*** all about solving the problems of the NHS and the education system

I'd rather be selfish and provide my children with the best education and healthcare I can than have them leaving middle school aged 12 unable to read or sitting in a dirty hospital room with no blankets and calpol.

If the schools in this country were better I would have no qualms about sending them to state school.

 

[DIFFBROOK]

Just expect that even if the NHS funding goes up, and up, and up... the services might not

Here, we're throwing more money year of year into the health service and the quality of service is going down and down due to most of it being poured into administration, etc.

Actually the NHS is administered less than say Marks and Spencer. I wouldn't say that the NHS is shite at all. In some places its very very good, in others it can be very poor. And that maybe down to poor management in these areas.

The NHS has already had the biggest rises in its history (together with an additional 1% increase on NI to pay for it) These rises have built up capacity in both machinery and the people to use it. The NHS spends around 70% of its budget on pay, with admin a very very tiny part of that (I can give you the figs if you like). What it does pay for is nurses and doctors. Now if you want a better service you need these doctors and nurses to treat you with good pay to attract and retain. I think we have got the capacity now (hence waiting lists are falling).

From 2008, rises for the NHS will start to fall, which is entirely reasonable as capacity has risen. What the NHS needs to do is consolidate on this and build on a service that not only treats illness, but prevents it.

As someone else has mentioned, its the drug budget that goes up and up. Again this accounts for another 20-25 % of the NHS budget. Peoples expectations are increasing, newer drugs in treating illness such as cancer are being put on the market all the time. Gene therapy will soon start to yield new treatments. All of these are very expensive (see ealier message) and our expectations understandably rising all of the time.

There will always be rationing of some kind. Whether it be by NICE not licensing or if by having a Private Insurance care system by extortionate premiums thereby stopping the poor or out of work taking out insurance, or if a history of say cancer simply not insuring you.

For the NHS, maybe if people took better care of themselves, smoked less, drank less and excercised more then the NHS wouldn't need to spend huge sums on treating illness resulting from lifestyle choices and this would free up resources for treatments such as Herceptin for early stage Breast Cancer.






is a people

 

[Lokki 7]

I would also ban private health companies and private schools

This would benefit no one.

 

[Dandyman]

Thats so cock LI .. go and speak to half the people who scrimp and save to send their kids to private school , in the belief that they are giving their kids a better education or are not satisfied with the state system .. its not about eliteism ... Also why not have private healthcare if you can afford it and it takes burden off NHS why not.. We should be encouraged to stand on our own two feet rather than rely on the state to support us ..

According to ONS the average weekly wage in the UK in 2004 was £413.60 (£21507 per annum).

According to the Independent Schools Council Information Service the average annual fee for boarding schools in 2004 was £17729.

Private schools are subsidised by the tax payer via their charitable tax free status. Why should I (a 40% tax payer) subsidise the rich ?

 

[Icy Gull]

Does having private medical insurance and having to pay tax on it as a benefit in kind not mean paying extra tax already? In addition to paying for but not using the NHS via National Insurance as well

 

[Dandyman]

Does having private medical insurance and having to pay tax on it as a benefit in kind not mean paying extra tax already? In addition to paying for but not using the NHS via National Insurance as well

It means jumping the queue.

 

[Lokki 7]

Private schools are subsidised by the tax payer via their charitable tax free status. Why should I (a 40% tax payer) subsidise the rich ?

Would you rather there were no public schools and you had to fund the full amount of educating the rich?

 

[Grendel]

The NHS has more than enough money chucked at it each year. The fact is that their financial management is abysmal. If they stopped paying middle managers (who do what, exactly?) nice inflated salaries, maybe they wouldn't be in such shit.

 

[Simster]

I agree with the plastic fella to an extent. If we banned private schools and hospitals, it would ensure the WHOLE population has a stake in state services. You only have to look at the Scandinavian countries, Germany and Holland to see that everything the state provides can be top class. The main problem is that the whole process would take the best part of 2 decades before we saw any benefit - the reason being that you would be attempting to change the culture of the country in doing so, and this can take at least a generation. And I for one don't want my kids being guinea-pigs during this process. Therefore, if I need to, I will pay for private education & healthcare despite the fact that it makes my blood boil considering the tax I pay.

But if we are to improve the state provided services without paying for it exponentially, then this is what needs to happen in the long run. A cultural shift NEEDS to occur, and not just from the middle classes who accept the status quo, moan about the levels of taxes they pay, and still spend their savings on private schooling to ensure a decent education for their kids (sorry plastic, but it's not snobbery - they really DO). A culture of failing to take reponsibility is RIFE in this country, and has led to abuse of the benefit system and people talking about handouts as their "right" despite never having done a day's work. Well who exactly is going to pay for these improvements then?

For me, these are the two sections of society which government after government need to change attitudes, and continually fail to do so (because their are no votes in it).

 

[Simster]

According to ONS the average weekly wage in the UK in 2004 was £413.60 (£21507 per annum).

According to the Independent Schools Council Information Service the average annual fee for boarding schools in 2004 was £17729.

Private schools are subsidised by the tax payer via their charitable tax free status. Why should I (a 40% tax payer) subsidise the rich ?

You're talking about boarding schools - the most expensive private schools going.

What about the hundreds of £3k a term fee paying schools, nearly all frequented by kids of other 40% tax payers?

 

[Dandyman]

Would you rather there were no public schools and you had to fund the full amount of educating the rich?

I would rather there were no private schools, that we had fully funded community schools and that the rich paid their taxes.

 

[Dandyman]

You're talking about boarding schools - the most expensive private schools going.

What about the hundreds of £3k a term fee paying schools, nearly all frequented by kids of other 40% tax payers?

Which means £9k a year ? I could not afford that even if I wanted to and there is no way the vast majority of the country could either.

 

[Lokki 7]

I would rather there were no private schools, that we had fully funded community schools and that the rich paid their taxes.

But your point was you don't like subsidising the rich from your tax contribution. If there are no private schools then your tax bill (as you are currently a 40% payer) relating to education will rise, surely you will be even more annoyed?

 

[Simster]

Which means £9k a year ? I could not afford that even if I wanted to and there is no way the vast majority of the country could either.

But you said you paid 40% tax. If that is the case, your earnings alone would bring in at less £20k netto, plus you'd have a lady in your life. So if you brought in £30k after tax between you, and had some equity in your house then that brings you into line with a good portion of parents who are considering this route.

I agree with you that the removal of private schools in the long run would be a good thing, but I do take issue with your premise that the majority of people you are subsiding are the filty rich who don't pay taxes. I suspect there are plenty of fairly normal middle income families such as the one I describe who choose to spend a huge portion of their disposable income on private schooling because of their perception of the state of the local schools.

As I sad before, I believe the main problem is how to get enough of the population to want to take reponsibilty in the standard of these state provided services.

 

[Lokki 7]

You only have to look at the Scandinavian countries, Germany and Holland to see that everything the state provides can be top class.

This is true, but countries such a Sweden also have a large and flourishing private schooling system. I think the key here is choice. Private schools should be allowed for those that want them but state schools should be funded to a similar standard.
This is very expensive however, and the countries you mention are all terrified as to how they can maintain the current level in services as the population ages and the working population declines.