[Football] Next team to suffer racist abuse at Spurs....

[Weststander]

Oh I'm sure he thought he heard racist abuse. It doesn't actually mean there was any. If media pundits are calling for Spurs to play games behind closed doors they might need to produce some sort of evidence? Or do we just take his word for it?

As I said originally, if these 'fans' are shown to have racially abused him then I am fully behind them being given life bans.

I’d be concerned that rival fans could go to a match to cause crap for another club. For example, a couple of Millwall fans to a West Ham match, or West Ham to a WHL match, to make audible monkey chants.

Stadium closures or games behind closed doors would hurt the completely innocent 97.5%. A completely disproportionate reaction, which would NOT stop morons carrying on their tribal, criminal obscenities, once the stadium reopens.

Clubs need to follow the lead of the Albion/Sussex Police, who seem to have a skill in identifying racists and homophobes, even when surrounded by 3,000 fellow away supporters in the south stand.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

On that point I remember when there was a media frenzy over BHA chanting Sieg Heil when they were in fact chanting Seagulls....

It wasn't a media frenzy. It was a day and a half of embarrassing bollocks.

So what do you imagine the German actually heard? And why do you presume it was not what he thought he heard?

 

[N17]

It wasn't a media frenzy. It was a day and a half of embarrassing bollocks.

So what do you imagine the German actually heard? And why do you presume it was not what he thought he heard?

There has been one arrest. It was a Chelsea fan racially abusing Son.

No Spurs arrests yet. Dunno why.

 

[Sorrel]

Me too. But I am also willing to believe the victim. In this case the victim had no reason whatsoever to make it up. Add to that his team were winning the match at the time

There is also the possibility that the player was mistaken and thought he heard something that wasn't there. That doesn't mean the player is lying, but he made have mistaken abuse from the crowd (that happens at most matches) for racist abuse from the crowd.

No idea what the truth is.

 

[Hastings gull]

Loads I'm afraid, not so much leaving the EU but those who came out of the closet and took it on as "their" cause.

If you haven't noticed there have been far right protesters outside parliament for months whilst many far right activists are supporting (and attempting to join) the Conservative party.

In many thick peoples minds it's ok to be racist again because the politicians that "won" were openly talking about the "dangers of immigration" and the Prime Minister calls Muslim women "bank robbers".

Labour have obviously had problems too for different reasons.

Gary Neville called it on Sky the other day. If it's happening at "the top" it's no surprise it's happening on the ground.

Isn't this just typical of a political fanatic desperate to twist anything? He did not call Muslim women such in general as you are suggesting. He was talking of burkhas, which remind everyone of bank robbers and letter boxes when he was despairing of the way women are treated, if forced to wear such garb.

 

[Hastings gull]

I think you should both extract your heads from the sand.

Why has racism in other countries got anything to do with racism in this country?

People making monkey noises at football matches is racist. Most sensible people would agree that racism and hate crime have increased since the Brexit vote. The two are not necessarily related, but .............

And I haven't fallen for anything. If you think it is acceptable to take the mickey out of someone because of the colour of their skin, whether it is classified as a hate crime or not, then that amazes me. If you think it is just banter, that is sad.

But neither of the two posters where you disagree have said that it is acceptable, or have said that it is innocent banter,.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

There has been one arrest. It was a Chelsea fan racially abusing Son.

No Spurs arrests yet. Dunno why.

Indeed. Radio 5 actually just said something about something being missheard. Oh well.

 

[AmexRuislip]

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...for-racially-abusing-tottenhams-son-heung-min

 

[RossyG]

People making monkey noises at football matches is racist.

Correct.

Most sensible people would agree that racism and hate crime have increased since the Brexit vote.

Most sensible people agree with you? Not the most convincing of rhetorical gambits. Recorded hate crimes may have gone up, but that doesn’t mean racism has increased, it just means that people are more likely to report it.

The two are not necessarily related, but .............

Which is the point I was originally addressing.

If you think it is acceptable to take the mickey out of someone because of the colour of their skin, whether it is classified as a hate crime or not, then that amazes me. If you think it is just banter, that is sad.

Could you post direct quotes for when either of us has said that taking the Mickey out of someone because of the colour of their skin is acceptable, please?

 

[Beach Seagull]

So one arrest from a crowd of 60k odd? To watch SSN today you'd have thought that WHL was a baying cauldron of racial hatred, when clearly this was not the case. Whenever we get hit by the latest 'racism in football' storm it's usually just one or two individuals. Amazing though no problem with the 'harry kane he talks like a mong' chant that I heard yesterday? Why is this? Surely that's just as offensive as racism but not a peep from anyone.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Perhaps this thread should be merged with the Brexit thread ? Perhaps all threads should be merged with the Brexit thread ?

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

But are there more crimes or are people just reporting everything now?

That is such a daily mail answer. Don't like the fact? Then question the veracity of the fact. Up is down, black is white and the right wing conquer the world.

 

[RossyG]

That is such a daily mail answer. Don't like the fact? Then question the veracity of the fact. Up is down, black is white and the right wing conquer the world.

The fact is that more hate crimes are reported. No one is disputing that.

There are more people charged for racial chanting at football grounds now than in the 1970s and 1980s. Does that mean there’s more racism now or that it’s actually addressed by the authorities?

There’s more awareness of hate crime reporting now than there was even five years ago and, as already mentioned on this thread, the criteria for reporting them has changed too.

 

[clapham_gull]

Isn't this just typical of a political fanatic desperate to twist anything? He did not call Muslim women such in general as you are suggesting. He was talking of burkhas, which remind everyone of bank robbers and letter boxes when he was despairing of the way women are treated, if forced to wear such garb.

It's irrelevant what he meant and I did read the article as I have many others. As a journalist his "style" (which he encouraged in others when editor of the spectator) was to stir up a storm.

He has done it for years. He lights the fuse and runs away, there are countless other examples too.

Giggle, giggle, cause a fight and run away. Straight from the fields of Eton.

 

[Triggaaar]

Scenario, a black guy is picked on by a white guy.
In a room of 100 people, another white guy will say something racist.
In a room of 1000 people, two white guys will back the white guy.
In a room of 10,000 people, 10 white guys may start a fight against the black guy.
In a stadium of 60,000 fans, 1 white guy said something. How can we stop that?

On the train to the game against Shef Utd some away fan stared chanting something along the line of 'you're all ****ing gay', so I switched my phone video on. If he'd have said it again, I'd have reported it to the police. He didn't.

 

[Triggaaar]

It’s a nothing chant that should be water off a duck’s back to all of us.

Best response is “You’re too ugly to be gay.”

All of us? So I assume you're gay, right? It's only bantz innit.

 

[abc]

With regard to racism, I doubt in most cases you ever really change a racist's mindset but what you can do is try and stop it spreading to the next generation. It won't (or hasn't) happened overnight but as you say, it is far better now than it was in the 70s.

The difference is dramatic (though of course that doesn't make any form of racism acceptable today). Monkey chants, bananas on the pitch, national front leaflets being handed out at the turnstiles, seig heil chanting and so on was just 'normal'. It seems incredible to say that now but it just was. No one - the Police, fans, the clubs, the FA, even the media - batted an eyelid. Society, not just football, has moved forward in so many ways but sadly there are still plenty that are determined to move backwards.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Recorded hate crimes may have gone up, but that doesn’t mean racism has increased, it just means that people are more likely to report it.

True. But I am not aware of an increase in the percent of people who would now report a hate crime. Where did you read this?

 

[Pavilionaire]

Absolute rubbish.

I'll quote you:

Fare executive director Piara Powar said: “There remains throughout football a rump of people, who in 2019, will see the political atmosphere as a cover for their own racism and prejudice.”

 

[Hastings gull]

It's irrelevant what he meant and I did read the article as I have many others. As a journalist his "style" (which he encouraged in others when editor of the spectator) was to stir up a storm.

He has done it for years. He lights the fuse and runs away, there are countless other examples too.

Giggle, giggle, cause a fight and run away. Straight from the fields of Eton.

Of course it is relevant -what a strange response. He was highlighting the fact that some/many muslim women are forced to wear such gear, which might well be a storm worth stirring, but obviously you think it is not.