[Politics] Next leader of the Labour party

[Bob'n'weave]

I am strongly recommending Rebecca Long-Bailey with no second preference and Richard Burgon with Dawn Butler as 2nd preference. Firstly their voting records in parliament put the other candidates to shame. Secondly I believe they represent the best electoral chance for Labour with radical policies to reverse the endless damage done by austerity, neo liberalism and global warming (and they're not southern remainers, increasing the chance to win back the leave voters), when Labour went for it and didn't try to appease the remainers and Blairites they nearly snatched the election inspite of them. In 2019 we lost because of the rights persistent undermining of the Corbyn and his supporters, they spent 4 years scheming and spewing out crap about Corbyn and failed to spend anytime trying to beat the Tories, then they (with Starmer as lead advocate) reversed Labour's policy of respecting the referendum result and push for a deal that won't harm working class people, to a call for a second referendum that was always going to lead to defeat in the election. They basically told half the population that a democratic promise means nothing. In the end instead of mitigating Brexit to make something good of it we are at the mercy of some right nasty characters who have no interest in the needs of working class people. Thirdly look at the two faced schemers*and back stabbers that support the other candidates (both Nandy and Starmer were coup participants) as well as the big financial backers.
Finally and most importantly I believe a victory for any of the others will signal the end of the project to attempt to try and dramatically change the direction of Britain (and the world). An end to Labours plans to redress the massive imbalances in our society. A victory for Starmer and Nandy (both talk left and of unity in the same way Owen Smith did) will mean a return to the Labour Party that shed principles faster than it could drop bombs on the middle east and academize our schools.
I'm just burying my head in the Sanders campaign now.

Thank **** for that.

You must be on the wind-up with that load of old tosh. "Redress the imbalances in our society", usually means lots of bullets and lots of body-bags.

Long-Baily is the queen of identity politics, already shutting down voices within her own party. Scary as ****.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

This is precisely where you're coming from. Holding your nose to vote for a party with principles. Did you hold your nose voting Labour when they were bombing the middle East into the stone age, or turning our schools into academies, or unleashing PFI on our hospitals, or asbos on our children. Some of us couldn't bare to rubber stamp that sort of behaviour and so Labour suddenly representing an alternative inspired hundreds of thousands to join and nearly win a general election inspite of the Chicken Coup by the PLP. And I'm a Jew that has applauded Corbyn's defence of the the Palestinians.

I prefer a labour party that wins rather than nearly wins.

I don't subscribe to violent revolution and accept that my political fate is in the hands of the electorate. Working out how far to go, pandering to the voter, is a dark art. Whatever you think of Blair, he was a winner.

I would rather have a labour government than a tory government. It seems that you would rather have a tory government than see a compromising labour government.

I could call you a traitor, but I think I'll just settle for mug. The deluded comment you made, above, that I highlighted above, sums it up. 'Nearly win' - my arse. Failing to beat the shambolic adulterer, Boris the Liar, not even coming close, was a disgrace to the labour party and a betrayal of the people.

ps Your reply is classic 'whataboutery' and does not reflect what I said whatsoever. You old Blair-haters need to give it a rest - you are just putting people off voting labour

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I would just like to add that as a labour support, being attacked on here by two labour supporters, because I support Starmer, and think Corbyn was too slow to deal with antisemitism (that was it - all the bollocks I got back was he invention of my protagonists) drags me back to the 80s.

I have a feeling these characters would prefer it if I changed my voting habits of more than 40 years, and stopped voting for 'their' labour party, now they have wrestled it out of the hands of the election winners.

Anyway, we shall see what transpires. If Starmer becomes leader and fails to beat Boris in 5 years (quite likely if Brexit fails to be the society-ending cluster**** that some of us, including me to a degree, think) I expect the far left to raise it's head again, accusing Starmer of betrayal of socialism, and demanding the grass roots run everything. And, good luck with that, comrades.

 

[Iggle Piggle]

I would just like to add that as a labour support, being attacked on here by two labour supporters, because I support Starmer, and think Corbyn was too slow to deal with antisemitism (that was it - all the bollocks I got back was he invention of my protagonists) drags me back to the 80s.

I have a feeling these characters would prefer it if I changed my voting habits of more than 40 years, and stopped voting for 'their' labour party, now they have wrestled it out of the hands of the election winners.

Anyway, we shall see what transpires. If Starmer becomes leader and fails to beat Boris in 5 years (quite likely if Brexit fails to be the society-ending cluster**** that some of us, including me to a degree, think) I expect the far left to raise it's head again, accusing Starmer of betrayal of socialism, and demanding the grass roots run everything. And, good luck with that, comrades.

Harry, my dad, 75 years young has only ever voted Labour all his life. The thought of him voting Tory was up there with me buying a Palace Season ticket. At the last election, that's exactly what he did. That's what the new breed of party member has done where ideology trumps electability. He simply couldn't vote for JC.

As an ex party member I voted Green (and then bought a single use bottle of water from the one stop opposite to show double standards pervade across our lives). From what I've seen of the debates I believe Nandy would appeal to the broader electorate but she has no chance in the current voting base. RLB would be a disaster. I hope Starmer gets in but still feel that this isn't as cut and dried as the betting markets think.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Harry, my dad, 75 years young has only ever voted Labour all his life. The thought of him voting Tory was up there with me buying a Palace Season ticket. At the last election, that's exactly what he did. That's what the new breed of party member has done where ideology trumps electability. He simply couldn't vote for JC.

As an ex party member I voted Green (and then bought a single use bottle of water from the one stop opposite to show double standards pervade across our lives). From what I've seen of the debates I believe Nandy would appeal to the broader electorate but she has no chance in the current voting base. RLB would be a disaster. I hope Starmer gets in but still feel that this isn't as cut and dried as the betting markets think.

Indeed. And our two Corbyn supporters on here would have it that he caved in under the relentless evil pressure from the massed ranks of the media. I love the way the hard left patronise the electorate. I lived through a time when the media did conduct a relentless campaign against labour (Foot, then Kinnock) but what it really did was firm up the support of the undecided. Proper labour supporters never fell for that shite.

So it takes a special kind of stupid to make labour so unpalatable it pushes a 75 year old, who lived through the Thatcher years, still voting labour, into the arms of Boris.

Well, my prediction was that as successive candidates drop out, Wrong Bailey will pick up more and more votes till she wins the head to head (I think this is how the mad Labour process works). This nightmare scenario now seems less likely but it is still possible . . . .

 

[Bob'n'weave]

It was when Corbyn started talking about 'bringing down the establishment' that I knew he was finished. As he would have become 'the establishment', if he had won, where would that had left us? Lunatic narrative.

 

[clapham_gull]

Can you explain why you believe critism of israel is antisemitic?

It isn't, but some parts of the hard left are in complete denial because they think antisemitism is only a right wing thing.

"Left wing Antisemitism" isn't new (it has roots in the USSR) but has recently re-emerged on the fringes of the Labour Party fused with modern conspiracy theories.

If you are very very anti-capitalist, very very anti-Israel (the state), very very anti-USA and prone to believing David Icke (even in part) - it's not that difficult to slip into something quite nasty.

Is it widespread ? Of course not.... Are many people of a socialist / left wing persuasion antisemitism ? Of course not....

Did it happen ? - Yep, I've read it and heard it. Has the top of the Labour party been in denial ? 100 percent yes.

This happens quite a lot in working environments when something happens completely incongruous with the assumed culture. They freak out and go into complete denial first.

Other examples of course being the Church, the Public sector and the Police.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

It isn't, but some parts of the hard left are in complete denial because they think antisemitism is only a right wing thing.

"Left wing Antisemitism" isn't new (it has roots in the USSR) but has recently re-emerged on the fringes of the Labour Party fused with modern conspiracy theories.

If you are very very anti-capitalist, very very anti-Israel (the state), very very anti-USA and prone to believing David Icke (even in part) - it's not that difficult to slip into something quite nasty.

Is it widespread ? Of course not.... Are many people of a socialist / left wing persuasion antisemitism ? Of course not....

Did it happen ? - Yep, I've read it and heard it. Has the top of the Labour party been in denial ? 100 percent yes.

This happens quite a lot in working environments when something happens completely incongruous with the assumed culture. They freak out and go into complete denial first.

Other examples of course being the Church, the Public sector and the Police.

This. Sadly.

 

[BenGarfield]

It isn't, but some parts of the hard left are in complete denial because they think antisemitism is only a right wing thing.

"Left wing Antisemitism" isn't new (it has roots in the USSR) but has recently re-emerged on the fringes of the Labour Party fused with modern conspiracy theories.

If you are very very anti-capitalist, very very anti-Israel (the state), very very anti-USA and prone to believing David Icke (even in part) - it's not that difficult to slip into something quite nasty.

Is it widespread ? Of course not.... Are many people of a socialist / left wing persuasion antisemitism ? Of course not....

Did it happen ? - Yep, I've read it and heard it. Has the top of the Labour party been in denial ? 100 percent yes.

This happens quite a lot in working environments when something happens completely incongruous with the assumed culture. They freak out and go into complete denial first.

Other examples of course being the Church, the Public sector and the Police.

So you seem to be acknowledging, then, that claims that there was widespread antisemitism in the labour party which was the coprporate media narrative are untrue, and you therefore agree with the actual research evidence on antisemitism, and the House of Commons report led by Chuka Umanna which came to the same conclusion. Could you give me some examples of the antisemitism which you have read or heard? Also, why do you suggest that being anti USA foreign policy should easily lead to antisemitism. Are you suggesting, for example, that critics of USA foreign policy such as the American Democratic candidates and leading supporters such as Tulsi Gabbard, Bernie Sanders (Jewish), AOC, and the eminent jewish academic Noam Chomsky fall into this category? Also what Icke conspiracy theories are you referring to?

 

[BenGarfield]

Harry, my dad, 75 years young has only ever voted Labour all his life. The thought of him voting Tory was up there with me buying a Palace Season ticket. At the last election, that's exactly what he did. That's what the new breed of party member has done where ideology trumps electability. He simply couldn't vote for JC.

As an ex party member I voted Green (and then bought a single use bottle of water from the one stop opposite to show double standards pervade across our lives). From what I've seen of the debates I believe Nandy would appeal to the broader electorate but she has no chance in the current voting base. RLB would be a disaster. I hope Starmer gets in but still feel that this isn't as cut and dried as the betting markets think.

If you think labour have gone too far left why on earth did you vote Green? They are to the left of labour in almost every respect? Baffling

 

[clapham_gull]

So you seem to be acknowledging, then, that claims that there was widespread antisemitism in the labour party which was the coprporate media narrative are untrue, and you therefore agree with the actual research evidence on antisemitism, and the House of Commons report led by Chuka Umanna which came to the same conclusion. Could you give me some examples of the antisemitism which you have read or heard? Also, why do you suggest that being anti USA foreign policy should easily lead to antisemitism. Are you suggesting, for example, that critics of USA foreign policy such as the American Democratic candidates and leading supporters such as Tulsi Gabbard, Bernie Sanders (Jewish), AOC, and the eminent jewish academic Noam Chomsky fall into this category? Also what Icke conspiracy theories are you referring to?

For everyone else the above is the usual ranting response to allegations of left wing antisemitism. Can't possibly believe anyone "left wing" could be guilty such a thing.

Yes must absolute kill you in the face of the far right but that doesn't mean it hasn't happened,

The correct response (of course) would be.

1) It isn't as bad as opponents of Labour party and Corbyn would make out.

2) It isn't anywhere near what other parties have been responsible for.

3) However, we've acknowledged it and are dealing with it. We've have had a huge influx of membership and our vetting processes should be stronger.

4) We are the Labour Party after all and have the strongest history of fighting it.

In reality, the loudest complaints have come from within the Labour Party itself, not from (that awful term) the "mainstream media" who have mostly just reported those complaints. I can give you all sorts of examples of antisemitism that either the Labour have dealt with (eventually) or I've heard from proclaimed socialists who frankly are in need of education. I suggest you find them yourself.

You can pick apart all my individual reasons but even you know if you state them individually the nuance of what I'm saying is lost.

In terms of David Icke, I suggest you educate yourself on the reason he struggles to book a theatre in this country now.

Lastly a tip. Stop using student union terms such as "narrative" and "corporate media". I'm surprised you didn't throw in a "binary".

You lose half the audience immediately.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

So you seem to be acknowledging, then, that claims that there was widespread antisemitism in the labour party which was the coprporate media narrative are untrue, and you therefore agree with the actual research evidence on antisemitism, and the House of Commons report led by Chuka Umanna which came to the same conclusion. Could you give me some examples of the antisemitism which you have read or heard? Also, why do you suggest that being anti USA foreign policy should easily lead to antisemitism. Are you suggesting, for example, that critics of USA foreign policy such as the American Democratic candidates and leading supporters such as Tulsi Gabbard, Bernie Sanders (Jewish), AOC, and the eminent jewish academic Noam Chomsky fall into this category? Also what Icke conspiracy theories are you referring to?

Your NSC profile "Location: Moscow" Is that 'mental' Moscow, or are you actually sitting on Putin's lap, purring?

I am sure I am not alone on NSC, among labour voters, tired of all this new old bollocks.

You won't persuade the plebs like me that Corbyn did not fail to deal with the anti semitism issue by writing dense text of whataboutery, if then elsery, and other dialectic cockwomblery.

I am sure you are right in your own mind, and if that is where socialist purity lives, may I salute your mind's indefatigability.

Incidentally, Noam Chomsky is not an eminent Jewish academic. He is a 91 year old intellectual who has provided me with much pleasure over the years. Much.

But I wouldn't vote for him

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWeTxeFusO0&list=PLgnlrg5jLnkf6EZ5TgIdwIwkrJ1FRl-vd

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2EdJSIFjv4

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

If you think labour have gone too far left why on earth did you vote Green? They are to the left of labour in almost every respect? Baffling

It isn't about left. It is about credible. It is baffling anyone should think Green is more credible than Corbyn, but that is more a condemnation of Corbyn than a testamonial for Green. Which is [MENTION=17261]Iggle Piggle[/MENTION]'s point. Innit.

But shirley you realise that, or are just being insouciant?

 

[Chicken Run]

If Lisa Nandy becomes leader then the Labour Party could become a party I would vote for and I’m sure I’m not alone amongst the centrist traditional Tory voters either!

 

[Iggle Piggle]

It isn't about left. It is about credible. It is baffling anyone should think Green is more credible than Corbyn, but that is more a condemnation of Corbyn than a testamonial for Green. Which is [MENTION=17261]Iggle Piggle[/MENTION]'s point. Innit.

But shirley you realise that, or are just being insouciant?

Exactly that. I also live in an area which is due to be blighted with HS2 and it was more to do with that than anything else. Secondly, it's the safest of safe Tory seats so it really wouldn't have mattered if I'd put an x next to the monster raving looney candidate. His idea to put air conditioning on the outside of houses to combat climate change was inspired.

Bottom line though, I'd never vote Labour with Corbyn in charge.

 

[BenGarfield]

Exactly that. I also live in an area which is due to be blighted with HS2 and it was more to do with that than anything else. Secondly, it's the safest of safe Tory seats so it really wouldn't have mattered if I'd put an x next to the monster raving looney candidate. His idea to put air conditioning on the outside of houses to combat climate change was inspired.

Bottom line though, I'd never vote Labour with Corbyn in charge.

So the policies that he advocated were ok, or, perhaps nor green enough, its just him personally that you dislike?

 

[Iggle Piggle]

So the policies that he advocated were ok, or, perhaps nor green enough, its just him personally that you dislike?

To be absolutely clear, I hate him with an absolute passion. He has ruined the Labour Party, effective opposition and the sooner he dissapears into oblivion the better. Clear?

 

[Chicken Run]

To be absolutely clear, I hate him with an absolute passion. He has ruined the Labour Party, effective opposition and the sooner he dissapears into oblivion the better. Clear?

Your wasting your time with this idiot, he’s a stooge, look at his entire list of post to date, all about Labour and nothing else, his other incarnation is Jolly Red Giant.

 

[Iggle Piggle]

Your wasting your time with this idiot, he’s a stooge, look at his entire list of post to date, all about Labour and nothing else, his other incarnation is Jolly Red Giant.

You are right but we've lost at home to Palace very tamely. Who doesn't want an argument tonight?

 

[Bold Seagull]

Ian Murray makes quite a compelling argument as Labour's only Scottish MP for deputy. He also cuts through the more fanciful notions of say ballots for military action, and has a very straight forward way that reminds me a bit of how Prescott was. Having a deputy from outside Corbyn's sphere of influence may also be a good thing if Starmer is to make leader.