[Politics] Next leader of the Labour party

[Weststander]

Raynor favourite for the deputy position. The story hasn't died for anyone with any real interest in politics.

Thank God, no Burgon. The Tories, SNP and LibDems would be rooting for him.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Funny how you guys are now seemingly gloating that the hard left are behind in this election. Let’s hope that Starmer does win so that Labour really can offer a sensible alternative. In reality I think it will be a close run thing.

Why is it funny that labour supporters are pleased that the moderate candidate is ahead? There are precious few momentum supporters who post on NSC (I can think of only two, and one may well have been barred now) and most seem to recognise the need to be electable. Only JRG is a true 'no compromise with the electorate' man.

But I share your concern (I presume it is a concern) that it may end up a close run thing. I have been concerned from the start that as each weaker candidate is eliminated, Wrong Bailey will pick up all the homeless 'hard left' votes, and I was under the impression the local parties are dominated by hard left (just as tory local parties are dominated by hang 'em and flog 'em right wing types). However I am persuaded this may no longer be the case (moderate fight back with last minute membership surge). We live in hope.

 

[Comrade Sam]

I am strongly recommending Rebecca Long-Bailey with no second preference and Richard Burgon with Dawn Butler as 2nd preference. Firstly their voting records in parliament put the other candidates to shame. Secondly I believe they represent the best electoral chance for Labour with radical policies to reverse the endless damage done by austerity, neo liberalism and global warming (and they're not southern remainers, increasing the chance to win back the leave voters), when Labour went for it and didn't try to appease the remainers and Blairites they nearly snatched the election inspite of them. In 2019 we lost because of the rights persistent undermining of the Corbyn and his supporters, they spent 4 years scheming and spewing out crap about Corbyn and failed to spend anytime trying to beat the Tories, then they (with Starmer as lead advocate) reversed Labour's policy of respecting the referendum result and push for a deal that won't harm working class people, to a call for a second referendum that was always going to lead to defeat in the election. They basically told half the population that a democratic promise means nothing. In the end instead of mitigating Brexit to make something good of it we are at the mercy of some right nasty characters who have no interest in the needs of working class people. Thirdly look at the two faced schemers*and back stabbers that support the other candidates (both Nandy and Starmer were coup participants) as well as the big financial backers.
Finally and most importantly I believe a victory for any of the others will signal the end of the project to attempt to try and dramatically change the direction of Britain (and the world). An end to Labours plans to redress the massive imbalances in our society. A victory for Starmer and Nandy (both talk left and of unity in the same way Owen Smith did) will mean a return to the Labour Party that shed principles faster than it could drop bombs on the middle east and academize our schools.
I'm just burying my head in the Sanders campaign now.

 

[Weststander]

I am strongly recommending Rebecca Long-Bailey with no second preference and Richard Burgon with Dawn Butler as 2nd preference. Firstly their voting records in parliament put the other candidates to shame. Secondly I believe they represent the best electoral chance for Labour with radical policies to reverse the endless damage done by austerity, neo liberalism and global warming (and they're not southern remainers, increasing the chance to win back the leave voters), when Labour went for it and didn't try to appease the remainers and Blairites they nearly snatched the election inspite of them. In 2019 we lost because of the rights persistent undermining of the Corbyn and his supporters, they spent 4 years scheming and spewing out crap about Corbyn and failed to spend anytime trying to beat the Tories, then they (with Starmer as lead advocate) reversed Labour's policy of respecting the referendum result and push for a deal that won't harm working class people, to a call for a second referendum that was always going to lead to defeat in the election. They basically told half the population that a democratic promise means nothing. In the end instead of mitigating Brexit to make something good of it we are at the mercy of some right nasty characters who have no interest in the needs of working class people. Thirdly look at the two faced schemers*and back stabbers that support the other candidates (both Nandy and Starmer were coup participants) as well as the big financial backers.
Finally and most importantly I believe a victory for any of the others will signal the end of the project to attempt to try and dramatically change the direction of Britain (and the world). An end to Labours plans to redress the massive imbalances in our society. A victory for Starmer and Nandy (both talk left and of unity in the same way Owen Smith did) will mean a return to the Labour Party that shed principles faster than it could drop bombs on the middle east and academize our schools.
I'm just burying my head in the Sanders campaign now.

How can anyone argue with this bit of your synopsis:

“they (with Starmer as lead advocate) reversed Labour's policy of respecting the referendum result and push for a deal that won't harm working class people, to a call for a second referendum that was always going to lead to defeat in the election. They basically told half the population that a democratic promise means nothing. In the end instead of mitigating Brexit to make something good of it”.

The electorate stunned Labour by identifying this not so cute shift and the party paid a very heavy price.

 

[zefarelly]

It may as well be Basil Brushes snowflake bi-curious non specific grand daughter-son-thing. . . . It'll make **** all difference for at least 3 years, probably 5, and maybe 10!

 

[Gwylan]

dont know why this is blamed on the media when its said by Labour MPs and activists.

When? Both the Labour party and Momentum are quite open about their membership numbers and anyone connected with the party is fully acquainted with the reality.

There may well be local parties where Momentum has a dominant influence but they're in a very small minority

 

[Javeaseagull]

I am torn because I think Keir Starmer is electable because of his broad appeal to the public but that is like electing Blair Mk2. I am not going there again, sorry.

Rebecca on the other hand is a proper socialist which will come with the cost of mass vilivaction from the MSM. She is definitely strong enough to stand up to this but I am not sure the public can handle it.

**** it! I am going with Rebecca, it’s about time Labour had a female leader anyway.

 

[clapham_gull]

I am torn because I think Keir Starmer is electable because of his broad appeal to the public but that is like electing Blair Mk2. I am not going there again, sorry.

It's funny how the media represent people but Keir Starmer is nothing like Blair. He is quite awkward publicly and is the son of a toolmaker and a nurse from Southwark.

He also (quite oddly) get misrepresented as a "Blairite". A label seemingly applied to anyone who thinks Corbyn is rubbish. The reality is that he only came into politics in 2015 when Ed Milliband was leader.

 

[wellquickwoody]

Why is it funny that labour supporters are pleased that the moderate candidate is ahead? There are precious few momentum supporters who post on NSC (I can think of only two, and one may well have been barred now) and most seem to recognise the need to be electable. Only JRG is a true 'no compromise with the electorate' man.

But I share your concern (I presume it is a concern) that it may end up a close run thing. I have been concerned from the start that as each weaker candidate is eliminated, Wrong Bailey will pick up all the homeless 'hard left' votes, and I was under the impression the local parties are dominated by hard left (just as tory local parties are dominated by hang 'em and flog 'em right wing types). However I am persuaded this may no longer be the case (moderate fight back with last minute membership surge). We live in hope.

To be fair I mistakenly took your post as from the hard left when I quoted you. Please accept my apologies.

 

[Bry Nylon]

To be fair I mistakenly took your post as from the hard left when I quoted you. Please accept my apologies.

If type of post represents the early signs of a more decent, respectful NSC then I'm all for that. I should do more of this myself.

 

[Comrade Sam]

It's funny how the media represent people but Keir Starmer is nothing like Blair. He is quite awkward publicly and is the son of a toolmaker and a nurse from Southwark.

He also (quite oddly) get misrepresented as a "Blairite". A label seemingly applied to anyone who thinks Corbyn is rubbish. The reality is that he only came into politics in 2015 when Ed Milliband was leader.

That's not exactly true. He was Blair's rather unpleasant Director of Public Prosecutions from 2008 to 2013.

 

[Gwylan]

That's not exactly true. He was Blair's rather unpleasant Director of Public Prosecutions from 2008 to 2013.

Er... Blair wasn't prime minister in 2008

(and the DPP is not appointed by the PM anyway)

 

[Surf's Up]

I am strongly recommending Rebecca Long-Bailey with no second preference and Richard Burgon with Dawn Butler as 2nd preference. Firstly their voting records in parliament put the other candidates to shame. Secondly I believe they represent the best electoral chance for Labour with radical policies to reverse the endless damage done by austerity, neo liberalism and global warming (and they're not southern remainers, increasing the chance to win back the leave voters), when Labour went for it and didn't try to appease the remainers and Blairites they nearly snatched the election inspite of them. In 2019 we lost because of the rights persistent undermining of the Corbyn and his supporters, they spent 4 years scheming and spewing out crap about Corbyn and failed to spend anytime trying to beat the Tories, then they (with Starmer as lead advocate) reversed Labour's policy of respecting the referendum result and push for a deal that won't harm working class people, to a call for a second referendum that was always going to lead to defeat in the election. They basically told half the population that a democratic promise means nothing. In the end instead of mitigating Brexit to make something good of it we are at the mercy of some right nasty characters who have no interest in the needs of working class people. Thirdly look at the two faced schemers*and back stabbers that support the other candidates (both Nandy and Starmer were coup participants) as well as the big financial backers.
Finally and most importantly I believe a victory for any of the others will signal the end of the project to attempt to try and dramatically change the direction of Britain (and the world). An end to Labours plans to redress the massive imbalances in our society. A victory for Starmer and Nandy (both talk left and of unity in the same way Owen Smith did) will mean a return to the Labour Party that shed principles faster than it could drop bombs on the middle east and academize our schools.
I'm just burying my head in the Sanders campaign now.

You're living in la la land mate!!!

 

[beorhthelm]

I am strongly recommending Rebecca Long-Bailey with no second preference and Richard Burgon with Dawn Butler as 2nd preference. Firstly their voting records in parliament put the other candidates to shame. Secondly I believe they represent the best electoral chance for Labour with radical policies to reverse the endless damage done by austerity, neo liberalism and global warming (and they're not southern remainers, increasing the chance to win back the leave voters), when Labour went for it and didn't try to appease the remainers and Blairites they nearly snatched the election inspite of them. In 2019 we lost because of the rights persistent undermining of the Corbyn and his supporters, they spent 4 years scheming and spewing out crap about Corbyn and failed to spend anytime trying to beat the Tories, then they (with Starmer as lead advocate) reversed Labour's policy of respecting the referendum result and push for a deal that won't harm working class people, to a call for a second referendum that was always going to lead to defeat in the election. They basically told half the population that a democratic promise means nothing. In the end instead of mitigating Brexit to make something good of it we are at the mercy of some right nasty characters who have no interest in the needs of working class people. Thirdly look at the two faced schemers*and back stabbers that support the other candidates (both Nandy and Starmer were coup participants) as well as the big financial backers.
Finally and most importantly I believe a victory for any of the others will signal the end of the project to attempt to try and dramatically change the direction of Britain (and the world). An end to Labours plans to redress the massive imbalances in our society. A victory for Starmer and Nandy (both talk left and of unity in the same way Owen Smith did) will mean a return to the Labour Party that shed principles faster than it could drop bombs on the middle east and academize our schools.
I'm just burying my head in the Sanders campaign now.

welcome to last year commrade! another revisionist who seems to think Starmer forced the entire party leadership, NEC, senior MPs into adopting a policy on Brexit.

 

[essbee1]

I am strongly recommending Rebecca Long-Bailey with no second preference and Richard Burgon with Dawn Butler as 2nd preference. Firstly their voting records in parliament put the other candidates to shame. Secondly I believe they represent the best electoral chance for Labour with radical policies to reverse the endless damage done by austerity, neo liberalism and global warming (and they're not southern remainers, increasing the chance to win back the leave voters), when Labour went for it and didn't try to appease the remainers and Blairites they nearly snatched the election inspite of them. In 2019 we lost because of the rights persistent undermining of the Corbyn and his supporters, they spent 4 years scheming and spewing out crap about Corbyn and failed to spend anytime trying to beat the Tories, then they (with Starmer as lead advocate) reversed Labour's policy of respecting the referendum result and push for a deal that won't harm working class people, to a call for a second referendum that was always going to lead to defeat in the election. They basically told half the population that a democratic promise means nothing. In the end instead of mitigating Brexit to make something good of it we are at the mercy of some right nasty characters who have no interest in the needs of working class people. Thirdly look at the two faced schemers*and back stabbers that support the other candidates (both Nandy and Starmer were coup participants) as well as the big financial backers.
Finally and most importantly I believe a victory for any of the others will signal the end of the project to attempt to try and dramatically change the direction of Britain (and the world). An end to Labours plans to redress the massive imbalances in our society. A victory for Starmer and Nandy (both talk left and of unity in the same way Owen Smith did) will mean a return to the Labour Party that shed principles faster than it could drop bombs on the middle east and academize our schools.
I'm just burying my head in the Sanders campaign now.

Labour lost because a) Corbyn was one of the most unpopular Labour leaders in history and not seen as a leader (despite the press putting the knife in I grant you) and b) some (but NOT all, I hasten to add) totally ludicrous policies that were clearly unrealistic (and meant as vote winners only) even to the most hard core Labour voter. It's as simple as that. Labour was seen as unelectable and they had themselves to blame to some extent. Vote RLB in as leader and the same will happen I fear.

 

[highflyer]

How can anyone argue with this bit of your synopsis:

“they (with Starmer as lead advocate) reversed Labour's policy of respecting the referendum result and push for a deal that won't harm working class people, to a call for a second referendum that was always going to lead to defeat in the election. They basically told half the population that a democratic promise means nothing. In the end instead of mitigating Brexit to make something good of it”.

The electorate stunned Labour by identifying this not so cute shift and the party paid a very heavy price.

I do agree with this. It was a bad tactical mistake, made worse by the arrogant and entitled attitudes of many on the 'remain' side (and not only the centrists - Momentum were also pushing hard for Labour to pledge a second referendum I believe). There were plenty of well informed (e.g. Labour MPs in the Midlands and North) voices warning of this and they should have been listened to. Post referendum, I was in favour of a soft brexit, but I still underestimated the impact of the policy shift in Brexit voting Labour areas. That mistake very soon became apparent on the doorstep.

In terms of Labour leadership...apart from having been a remainer what is it about Keir Starmer that convinces people he is a 'centrist'?

Genuine question, as I am seeing it said so often, here and elsewhere, and it puzzles me.

He's pledged to keep the core of Corbyn's political agenda (anti-auterity, green new deal, housing, restrictions on arms sales...) and his 'ten pledges', if taken at face value, constitute a considerably more radical agenda than Labour pursued in 2017, when it was decried as an 'extremist' left wing manifesto.

Is it the hair? The suit? Or just that the Overton window has been shifted so successfully by Corbyn that you now see centre-left policies as 'centrist'?

 

[Bold Seagull]

I do agree with this. It was a bad tactical mistake, made worse by the arrogant and entitled attitudes of many on the 'remain' side (and not only the centrists - Momentum were also pushing hard for Labour to pledge a second referendum I believe). There were plenty of well informed (e.g. Labour MPs in the Midlands and North) voices warning of this and they should have been listened to. Post referendum, I was in favour of a soft brexit, but I still underestimated the impact of the policy shift in Brexit voting Labour areas. That mistake very soon became apparent on the doorstep.

In terms of Labour leadership...apart from having been a remainer what is it about Keir Starmer that convinces people he is a 'centrist'?

Genuine question, as I am seeing it said so often, here and elsewhere, and it puzzles me.

He's pledged to keep the core of Corbyn's political agenda (anti-auterity, green new deal, housing, restrictions on arms sales...) and his 'ten pledges', if taken at face value, constitute a considerably more radical agenda than Labour pursued in 2017, when it was decried as an 'extremist' left wing manifesto.

Is it the hair? The suit? Or just that the Overton window has been shifted so successfully by Corbyn that you now see centre-left policies as 'centrist'?

Maybe the posh voice?

 

[highflyer]

Maybe the posh voice?

Maybe. But my bet is the hair.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Maybe. But my bet is the hair.

It does go to show how politics is shaped by our impression of someone. Starmer may well be a full on Corbyn-eque left winger in his ideology, but his outward appearance convinces everyone he must be a centrist Blairite. He's not said anything so far to suggest he would stray too far from the 2017 manifesto, and is if anything positioning himself slightly left of Ed Milliband. Perhaps it's the professional background that he must be far more right than he actually is....that maybe why he is proving popular, because a leader that appears moderate while taking the core of the party's principles with him maybe exactly what Labour need.

At the end of the day, many people don't get into things too deeply. Very few people read manifestos. Many just want to look at someone and feel they could be led by them, and many couldn't get passed that with Corbyn. People can say what they want about the red wall, Brexit, the manifesto, there were just too many ordinary working class people who couldn't look at Corbyn and see someone that would inspire them and lead them.

Starmer doesn't really need to stray too far from the 2017 manifesto, what he does need to do is reshape what leadership is for the party, Corbyn felt he had strength in listening, compromising, but it was also seen as a weakness. If there is anything to learn from Blair, it's professionalism. He looked ready to lead, his team looked ready to lead. Forget the actual policies for a second, that is what the next leader needs to establish.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

That's not exactly true. He was Blair's rather unpleasant Director of Public Prosecutions from 2008 to 2013.

Apart from the Blair inaccuracy, he was not unpleasant to those who worked for him.