Next Labour Leader

[alfredmizen]

The Tories have made a lot of promises that they will unable to carry out and when/if cuts start effecting people who didn't expect to be effected then the proverbial will hit the fan and EU will always be a simmering battleground whatever happens in the referendum

**** affecting****, ****affected****.

 

[Gwylan]

I believe that they've been judged harshly and DID remain a centrist party putting a brake on Tory excess. They will return as a political force but it will probably take then 10 years.

I agree with Ernest (blimey), I think we're going to see a splintering of parties within the next 20 years (particularly if PR comes into being) and I reckon that the idea of left and right will become outdated. Labour faces a dilemma: it needs to move right to appeal to south-east of England but move left to appeal to Scotland - not sure how it's going to do that

 

[Pavilionaire]

Thatcher changed British politics radically. As did the Attlee, Bevan combo decades earlier. This might indicate that what she hasn't done is change it 'forever'. It feels like that now but, amongst other things and as the pope has pointed out today, climate change will bite back against Thatcher's individualism (and credit where credit's due, Thatcher was one of the earlier mainstream politicians to recognise the scale of climate change; she failed to realise that it posed a substantial challenge to her account of what humans are/should be).

I get the "individualism" argument but I think Thatcher's lasting change is to do with aspiration, particularly economic aspiration, i.e. privatisation, breaking the unions, liberalising banking, property ownership, deepening the economic relationship with Europe. All of these fundamental changes she brought in are still very much with us, and here to stay.

 

[Machiavelli]

I get the "individualism" argument but I think Thatcher's lasting change is to do with aspiration, particularly economic aspiration, i.e. privatisation, breaking the unions, liberalising banking, property ownership, deepening the economic relationship with Europe. All of these fundamental changes she brought in are still very much with us, and here to stay.

That aspiration word is very popular these days. But I'm not so sure she revived it. The post-war Labour Party were delivering aspiration to the working-class. Thatcher just realigned it, and associated it with property (those council houses being the key policy).

 

[spring hall convert]

Last night was pretty depressing.

Andy 'man of the people' Burnham seems a fairly likeable chap but lacks gravitas. I also don't like the way that he's borrowed much of Farage's shtick about Westminster mafia...
Yvette Cooper is a robot, she said nothing of weight and she's far too close to the last Government.
Liz Kendall seems to be on a mission to alienate her own party. She'd be Milliband mk 2 in the wierdness stakes come election time.
Corbyn would never get elected.

 

[Gwylan]

Thatcher just realigned it, and associated it with property (those council houses being the key policy).

Home ownership is declining now. I believe that about 25% of under-34s are home owners, compared to about 50% 20 years ago, at that sort of rate, we're going to be back at pre-war levels within 20 years.

 

[Machiavelli]

Home ownership is declining now. I believe that about 25% of under-34s are home owners, compared to about 50% 20 years ago, at that sort of rate, we're going to be back at pre-war levels within 20 years.

Yup. It may be at the starting-point of home ownership/property that the Thatcher/neoliberal transformation becomes targeted. I think Labour should have made an awful lot more of their 200,000+ new homes policy at the last election.

 

[Machiavelli]

Last night was pretty depressing.

Andy 'man of the people' Burnham seems a fairly likeable chap but lacks gravitas. I also don't like the way that he's borrowed much of Farage's shtick about Westminster mafia...
Yvette Cooper is a robot, she said nothing of weight and she's far too close to the last Government.
Liz Kendall seems to be on a mission to alienate her own party. She'd be Milliband mk 2 in the wierdness stakes come election time.
Corbyn would never get elected.

It's not an edifying contest (and I'm delighted I missed it last night). Suggests Labour are in big trouble. Can't understand why one of them hasn't embraced PR.

 

[Gwylan]

Yup. It may be at the starting-point of home ownership/property that the Thatcher/neoliberal transformation becomes targeted. I think Labour should have made an awful lot more of their 200,000+ new homes policy at the last election.

I think Labour will lose the next election whoever they choose as leader but I reckon housing will be the major issue by then and certainly will be 2025. With house prices rising a three or four times the inflation rate and with young people facing larger university debts, I can this being huge within ten years

 

[Ernest]

I think Labour will lose the next election whoever they choose as leader but I reckon housing will be the major issue by then and certainly will be 2025. With house prices rising a three or four times the inflation rate and with young people facing larger university debts, I can this being huge within ten years

Imagine a party saying we will build enough houses so everyone has one either at cost price or social rent and if you have more than one property then you will be taxed to pay for it ?

 

[1066familyman]

That aspiration word is very popular these days. But I'm not so sure she revived it. The post-war Labour Party were delivering aspiration to the working-class. Thatcher just realigned it, and associated it with property (those council houses being the key policy).

The 'Aspiration' word now is bandied around more than the "hard working families" phrase so beloved of politicians from all sides. I'm sick to the back teeth of it already! The amount of people on benefits whilst in full time work in this country and with virtually no hope of escaping the private rent/benefit top up trap is alarming. To suggest that this section of the poplace is somehow not aspirational enough and just need to work harder is bloody insulting frankly, particularly coming from a so called party of the Left.

Home ownership is declining now. I believe that about 25% of under-34s are home owners, compared to about 50% 20 years ago, at that sort of rate, we're going to be back at pre-war levels within 20 years.

I've not looked for stats to back it up, but I wouldn't mind betting that meanwhile the percentage of people owning more than one property has shot up. A travesty to illustrate how successive governments since Thatcher have messed up on one of THE fundamentals - Housing.

Yup. It may be at the starting-point of home ownership/property that the Thatcher/neoliberal transformation becomes targeted. I think Labour should have made an awful lot more of their 200,000+ new homes policy at the last election.

Golden opportunity to talk about the inequality gap widening. Better still, hit the Tories with their own weapon - you want to cut the welfare bill AND support hardworking taxpayers?, what about the massive Housing Benefit bill that is effectively taxpayers money sibsidising 2nd mortgages and small business.

Labour need to talk about homes as places for people to live in, not houses as bricks and mortar investment opportunities that are dividing our society. Did they do this?, did they ****!

I think Labour will lose the next election whoever they choose as leader but I reckon housing will be the major issue by then and certainly will be 2025. With house prices rising a three or four times the inflation rate and with young people facing larger university debts, I can this being huge within ten years

Unless Labour return to the fundamentals and move back towards the Left then they will keep losing. On housing and jobs young people in particular have a very bleak future if they don't have parents or grandparents to help them get a foot up. We see this in housing and in terms of student loans and future job opportunities. I wonder if University degrees are fast becoming 'two-a-penny'?, and the rise of unpaid internships should set alarm bells ringing for those that have to support themselves post University without the help of private funding.

This country is becoming more and more divided by the day, and I dread to think where it will be by the time this lot have finished. Labour are being cowardly in their approach in such circumstances. If ever there was a time for radical politics that time is NOW!, but Labour just don't seem to get it.

 

[1066familyman]

Imagine a party saying we will build enough houses so everyone has one either at cost price or social rent and if you have more than one property then you will be taxed to pay for it ?

Amen to that!

It'll never happen though in this country with the poor excuse we have for a mainstream party of the Left unfortunately.

 

[Pavilionaire]

Unless Labour return to the fundamentals and move back towards the Left then they will keep losing.

The majority of voters simply don't trust Labour on the economy and believe the "fundamentals" simply cost the country too much money. The only Labour leader to have won a general election in the last 40 years is Blair, a man who left fundamental "Old Labour" behind and founded "New Labour", i.e. Tory Lite. The party went so far to the right the Lib Dems got a shedload more votes in 2005 and 2010, many from disillusioned Labour voters who wanted to vote for a left of centre party that gave a sh1t.

 

[1066familyman]

The majority of voters simply don't trust Labour on the economy and believe the "fundamentals" simply cost the country too much money. The only Labour leader to have won a general election in the last 40 years is Blair, a man who left fundamental "Old Labour" behind and founded "New Labour", i.e. Tory Lite. The party went so far to the right the Lib Dems got a shedload more votes in 2005 and 2010, many from disillusioned Labour voters who wanted to vote for a left of centre party that gave a sh1t.

Yes, people need to know what history has shown us and learn lessons from it, but doesn't mean we have to live there!

As other posters have pointed out, the future looks set to be very different to the past, and only those in the I'm alright Jack brigade or those with their heads in the sand can deny that we are fast becoming a more and more divided society, whilst all those with vested interests are trying to convince us that "we're all middle class now".

It's bollox!, and Labour have the chance to say so, maybe not in such eloquent language as that, but you get the point If that means being cast into the political wilderness for a time, so be it. Their time will come if they take a stand now and show some principals they're prepared to stick with. Courting the centre ground isn't exactly working, and for me it's just showing them to be self serving and only interested in power at any cost.

You've only got to look at how 'Green' issues are now so much a part of the mainstream when once anyone daring to voice them was written off as a sandal wearing loon and laughed at. There's a lesson from history for you, and it's a very poignant one too as unbridled Capitalism is not sustainable, the cake simply can't keep on growing.

 

[crodonilson]

Backed Jez at 50's at 11.59am, now on the ballot & liked by the rank & file and did well in a pole. 33's still there
Solidarity

Into 2/1 now and according to recent polls the current frontrunner amongst Labour voters.

 

[Surf's Up]

Yes, people need to know what history has shown us and learn lessons from it, but doesn't mean we have to live there!

As other posters have pointed out, the future looks set to be very different to the past, and only those in the I'm alright Jack brigade or those with their heads in the sand can deny that we are fast becoming a more and more divided society, whilst all those with vested interests are trying to convince us that "we're all middle class now".

It's bollox!, and Labour have the chance to say so, maybe not in such eloquent language as that, but you get the point If that means being cast into the political wilderness for a time, so be it. Their time will come if they take a stand now and show some principals they're prepared to stick with. Courting the centre ground isn't exactly working, and for me it's just showing them to be self serving and only interested in power at any cost.

You've only got to look at how 'Green' issues are now so much a part of the mainstream when once anyone daring to voice them was written off as a sandal wearing loon and laughed at. There's a lesson from history for you, and it's a very poignant one too as unbridled Capitalism is not sustainable, the cake simply can't keep on growing.

The future will be very different to the past, and in particular by 2020 the country will have been changed beyond recognition by the Tory government (I make no comment re whether for the better or worse). Labour need to recognise that their founding principles are becoming increasingly more difficult to square with modern society and need to be adjusted and re-calibrated for life in the 2020s. If they want to survive they have to fundamentally re-think their raison d'être instead of winging on about why they lost the last election or Tory bashing. This doesn't mean throwing the baby out with the bath water but it does require a million times more vision than is currently being demonstrated by any of the leadership candidates, particularly but not exclusively Jeremy Corbyn.

 

[Vegas Seagull]

Backed Jez at 50's at 11.59am, now on the ballot & liked by the rank & file and did well in a pole. 33's still there
Solidarity

Pity about the pole/poll blunder, but otherwise a robust post on the original & best thread

 

[warmleyseagull]

Can.t vote, there is no option for 'none of the above'.

 

[BensGrandad]

When I saw the thread my immediate thought was he hasnt gone or been sacked already surely.