Next Labour Leader

[Buzzer]

Uh-oh. Andy Burnham's gonna regret saying this if he wins

[vine]eizxzUam3n6[/vine]


Burnham: "the party comes first, always"

Kendall: "...the country comes first"

 

[Chicken Run]

From the BBC new website:

"Do you recognise the four people who are after one of the biggest jobs in British politics?
That was the question put to people in Nuneaton, the town chosen by Newsnight for the first live televised hustings debate with the Labour leadership contenders.
In an unscientific snap poll by BBC political reporter Sian Grzeszczyk, no-one knew the names of Andy Burnham, Liz Kendall, Yvette Cooper or Jeremy Corbyn."

The Labour Party (bless them) are very quickly turning into the Portsmouth FC of politics . #twats

 

[Pavilionaire]

The real winners after tonight are the all the other political parties. If the Lib Dems elect the right leader and get their message across they could start to claw their way back. There's no vision coming from any of the 4 Labour candidates, and the Lib Dems under Tim Farron or Norman Lamb would, by the sound of it, be left of Liz Kendall.

 

[jonny.rainbow]

From the BBC new website:

"Do you recognise the four people who are after one of the biggest jobs in British politics?
That was the question put to people in Nuneaton, the town chosen by Newsnight for the first live televised hustings debate with the Labour leadership contenders.
In an unscientific snap poll by BBC political reporter Sian Grzeszczyk, no-one knew the names of Andy Burnham, Liz Kendall, Yvette Cooper or Jeremy Corbyn."

And the same would've been the case if they had been shown images of David Cameron, David Davis and Liam Fox in 2005. This reflects the general populace's ignorance when it comes to politics, not the calibre of the candidates.

 

[beorhthelm]

Uh-oh. Andy Burnham's gonna regret saying this if he wins
...

Burnham: "the party comes first, always"

Kendall: "...the country comes first"

oh dear. im afraid this represents a view held by a lot to the left, the party (or union) comes first. along with an intellectual superiority coplex (our politics are right and better, and everyone agrees with them) is the reason Miliband and Labour lost in the first place.

 

[Ernest]

Uh-oh. Andy Burnham's gonna regret saying this if he wins

[vine]eizxzUam3n6[/vine]


Burnham: "the party comes first, always"

Kendall: "...the country comes first"

It was taken completely out of context, but as usual the groovy gang jump on a band wagon

 

[Buzzer]

It was taken completely out of context, but as usual the groovy gang jump on a band wagon

Liz Kendall was the one who came back with the 'country first' retort. Is she in the groovy gang too now?

 

[Ernest]

Liz Kendall was the one who came back with the 'country first' retort. Is she in the groovy gang too now?

You're highlighting it here, so what was the question and the context of Andy Burnham's answer then ?

 

[Pavilionaire]

It was taken completely out of context, but as usual the groovy gang jump on a band wagon

I disagree, by tacking "always" onto the end of the sentence Burnham did make it look like his primary concern was to his party. It may have been unintentional on his part but it displays the mindset. Full marks to Kendall for her instant retort. I think she's the only one of the 4 candidates who actually "gets it", i.e. the electorate want Labour to be positioned in the centre ground that Blair occupied, but focused on the country not themselves.

 

[Ernest]

I disagree, by tacking "always" onto the end of the sentence Burnham did make it look like his primary concern was to his party. It may have been unintentional on his part but it displays the mindset. Full marks to Kendall for her instant retort. I think she's the only one of the 4 candidates who actually "gets it", i.e. the electorate want Labour to be positioned in the centre ground that Blair occupied, but focused on the country not themselves.

The centre ground has already been shown to be false, people want an alternative not the same which is why Jeremy Corbyn is my vote

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

I disagree, by tacking "always" onto the end of the sentence Burnham did make it look like his primary concern was to his party. It may have been unintentional on his part but it displays the mindset. Full marks to Kendall for her instant retort. I think she's the only one of the 4 candidates who actually "gets it", i.e. the electorate want Labour to be positioned in the centre ground that Blair occupied, but focused on the country not themselves.

Reckon the next election will play out like the Major / Blair successive elections. Major upset all the polls on the day to win the unlikeliest of victories. Next election around, the electorate were so heartily sick of the Tories that it resulted in a Labour landslide victory. Felt like a liberating army rolling into town. Pretty sure that same will happen next time around, so long as Labour aren't daft enough to elect as leader someone quite as Weird as Ed.

 

[Buzzer]

You're highlighting it here, so what was the question and the context of Andy Burnham's answer then ?

Something about what would he do if he's not successful as leader within 3 years but it's really not the point. No-one would have batted an eyelid at his response if Kendall hadn't made such a quick and devastating retort and that's why such a big play is being made of it. I didn't make the 'no...it's the country first' response in or out of context, it was one of his senior colleagues. Direct your ire at her.

 

[Pavilionaire]

The centre ground has already been shown to be false, people want an alternative not the same which is why Jeremy Corbyn is my vote

The last proper left wing Labour leader who won a general election was Harold Wilson in 1974, so over 40 years ago. His majority was 3 seats; 8 months early he won but with a minority government and hung parliament. So even then in the days when the unions had power he couldn't win with a workable majority.

Thatcher changed British politics forever, and it is difficult to conceive of the UK electorate voting in a proper "left wing" party with a majority. Blair showed that the electorate DID have an appetite for centrist views and this was again confirmed in 2010 when Nick Clegg did so well.

It will be interesting to see what substance Kendall has and how 'Labour' she really is.

 

[Ernest]

The last proper left wing Labour leader who won a general election was Harold Wilson in 1974, so over 40 years ago. His majority was 3 seats; 8 months early he won but with a minority government and hung parliament. So even then in the days when the unions had power he couldn't win with a workable majority.

Thatcher changed British politics forever, and it is difficult to conceive of the UK electorate voting in a proper "left wing" party with a majority. Blair showed that the electorate DID have an appetite for centrist views and this was again confirmed in 2010 when Nick Clegg did so well.

It will be interesting to see what substance Kendall has and how 'Labour' she really is.

The problem is nobody can predict what will happen in the next 5 years, there may well be 2 Tory Parties, one Euro, one UKIPish, 2 Labour Parties, one Blairite, one Socialist so it may well all end up in one giant log jam

 

[yxee]

Andy Burnham is not very impressive.

 

[Machiavelli]

The last proper left wing Labour leader who won a general election was Harold Wilson in 1974, so over 40 years ago. His majority was 3 seats; 8 months early he won but with a minority government and hung parliament. So even then in the days when the unions had power he couldn't win with a workable majority.

Thatcher changed British politics forever, and it is difficult to conceive of the UK electorate voting in a proper "left wing" party with a majority. Blair showed that the electorate DID have an appetite for centrist views and this was again confirmed in 2010 when Nick Clegg did so well.

It will be interesting to see what substance Kendall has and how 'Labour' she really is.

Thatcher changed British politics radically. As did the Attlee, Bevan combo decades earlier. This might indicate that what she hasn't done is change it 'forever'. It feels like that now but, amongst other things and as the pope has pointed out today, climate change will bite back against Thatcher's individualism (and credit where credit's due, Thatcher was one of the earlier mainstream politicians to recognise the scale of climate change; she failed to realise that it posed a substantial challenge to her account of what humans are/should be).

 

[Gwylan]

I think she's the only one of the 4 candidates who actually "gets it", i.e. the electorate want Labour to be positioned in the centre ground that Blair occupied, but focused on the country not themselves.

.. because the Lib Dems did so well by occupying by the centre ground

 

[Pavilionaire]

The problem is nobody can predict what will happen in the next 5 years, there may well be 2 Tory Parties, one Euro, one UKIPish, 2 Labour Parties, one Blairite, one Socialist so it may well all end up in one giant log jam

This may well be true, but you get the feeling the only way the Tories will be ousted is if the right-wing of their party messes things up, i.e. excessive cuts to welfare, holding the country to ransom over Europe.

I suspect Labour will elect a woman as their next leader. It will be interesting to see if, when Cameron stands down at the end of his 2nd term (as he suggested he would), that the Tories elect a woman of their own to "cover" Labour.

UKIP will be a spent force after the referendum once the UK votes to stay in the EU. The Tories will be the gainers there, making it even harder for Labour.

 

[Pavilionaire]

.. because the Lib Dems did so well by occupying by the centre ground

The Lib Dems lost votes because they were punished for going into coalition with the Tories and reneging on tuition fees. People voted for them because they had the middle ground in 2010 but they were perceived to have lurched too far to the right within weeks of going into coalition.

I believe that they've been judged harshly and DID remain a centrist party putting a brake on Tory excess. They will return as a political force but it will probably take then 10 years.

 

[Ernest]

This may well be true, but you get the feeling the only way the Tories will be ousted is if the right-wing of their party messes things up, i.e. excessive cuts to welfare, holding the country to ransom over Europe.

I suspect Labour will elect a woman as their next leader. It will be interesting to see if, when Cameron stands down at the end of his 2nd term (as he suggested he would), that the Tories elect a woman of their own to "cover" Labour.

UKIP will be a spent force after the referendum once the UK votes to stay in the EU. The Tories will be the gainers there, making it even harder for Labour.

The Tories have made a lot of promises that they will unable to carry out and when/if cuts start effecting people who didn't expect to be effected then the proverbial will hit the fan and EU will always be a simmering battleground whatever happens in the referendum