[Politics] Next Conservative Leader - Rishi Sunak

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Poor old William is a bit late to the game again. They entered the 'death spiral' when Johnson's Brexit cabal got their majority in December 2019

Yes. One forgets that the tories continued to have sufficient sense to realize that no Brexit deal was possible right through the May era (which is why every plan was voted down).

Unfortunately they then did the lunatic thing of deciding that even though no deal was possible, the solution was to just leave anyway, and blame the PM. Sensible tories then sat back and let the ERG get on with it, using Johnson and his cheeky charm to front the exercise. And what did they do? Opt for one of the plans that they themselves had voted down when May was pm.

What were they thinking? It isn't as if there was any opposition to outwit at the time, with Corbyn offering nothing in the way of leadership and vision. These wounds are 100% self-inflicted.

Rather than flounce if Johnson returns (or tries to return) why did they not have the balls to say 'look, the Brexit vote was advisory and now we have looked at it, we can't work out a safe way to do it, so let's leave it'. Corbyn and Farrage would have continued to back 'leave' and sensible tories would have won the next GE with the loonies split between Corbyn and Farrage (who would have risen from the dead if we had remained). It seems that the tory MPs will instead embrace any sort of devilry or lunacy just to remain in power. Even devilry with which they profoundly disagree.

Ironically the only consistent voices here are the ERG, who have never wavered, never had any plan other than leave-EU, don't care about anything else, and remain relaxed. Some people admire people who never 'U-turn', never change the plan. As in many contexts, acquiring a simplistic vision and sticking with a simplistic stance, even after it has been demonstrated to be foolish or dangerous, is the mark of an unsound mind. It is the reason parties lose power, managers are sacked, careers founder and relationships collapse. We should be in the political era of Potter, now, but instead we have had 10 years of John Beck.

Incidentally, I have seen people say, a year or so ago, that a bit of post-Brexit pain would be worth it in the long run. Is there anyone left on this board, I wonder, who is prepared to argue that despite subsequent events (the emergence of Johnson, the debasement of the office of PM by Johnson, the deposition of Johnson, and the tory collapse), making leaving the EU the top agenda item all those years ago, then backing Johnson in order to 'get Brexit done', remains the right course of action?

 

[KZNSeagull]

BBC article just now:

Raab thinks Johnson could eventually make a return to front-line politics, but says it's impossible to do so while he faces a parliamentary investigation into whether he misled MPs over Covid rule-breaking.

"There's going to be oral testimony from people from No 10 and he's going to have to give oral testimony; I just can't see how the new PM could give the country the attention and focus that it needs," he says.

"We cannot go backwards. We cannot have another episode of the Groundhog Day of the soap opera of Partygate."

Trouble is, just about every member of the public that the BBC ask seems to want Boris back. Blimey

 

[Norman Potting]

.......Whatever happened to the Monster Raving Loony party? Could do a job?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I don't know if it's masochistic to partly want him back as PM just so this very thing can happen - and they are out of power for the rest of my life (56).

I have been resisting saying 'bring it on' so that the tories become yet more damaged. I am on record as saying a couple of years ago that it would be better to replace Johnson with someone competent so the country can recover, even if it lessens the chance of a Starmer win in the next GE.

Ironically I now suspect that if Johnson does get selected as leader, he will be stronger and almost impervious to criticism for his past (and future) lying. Only if he is convicted, and banned from standing, will the nation be protected from him. The same is true in America with Trump. Unless these psychopaths are convicted and barred, they are both likely to ride again and win again.

So, no, I suspect that if the tory MPs are prepared to select Johnson as leader they will benefit from this. This is one reason why I don't want it. I suspect that many of them realize this. Yes, in my echo chamber, everyone loathes Johnson, but out there in gammon-land, people still love him.

Let's hope that this time there are enough tories with real and metaphorical balls sufficient to block the lying charlatan from 'saving the day'. This time, I am hopeful there are. Write to your local tory MP and give them appropriate encouragement! Oh, hand on, mine is that appalling Helen Whately

 

[rogersix]

Perhaps.

Sunak just needs 100 for now. He should be telling MP’s past that 100 threshold to back Penny.

I can’t believe that canine c*** has stopped skiving off Parliament, ended his perma-holiday and is back in the UK to try and sneak back into Downing Street. I’ll be joining the 1m+ other people marching on the capital if that f***er gets back in. He is not fit for public duty, the Tories have decided that once, this is not a U-turn the country (or Tory Party) can handle.

when is the march planned for?

 

[Guinness Boy]

Trouble is, just about every member of the public that the BBC ask seems to want Boris back. Blimey

That's because they're hand picking them. Going to constituencies that voted Tory in 2019 and finding some of the staunchest BoJo fans they can.

If they went to Brighton and asked a bunch of randoms I can't think they'd have more than a couple of people out of every 100 who'd even consider it.

 

[Hugo Rune]

when is the march planned for?

It’s not planned yet but will be an inevitable consequence of someone so hated getting back into power.

 

[rogersix]

Seeing the legions of online political obsessives emerging from their back bedrooms, safe spaces and echo chambers taking to the streets would be a sight to behold (wrap up warm) .... almost worth giving Big Dog another go!

shteve, you are one of those political obsessives, you are emerging from your echo chamber still under the cover of your annonymous psuedonym, the big difference being, you are punching down.

get up off your knees, wipe that muck off your face, and fight the good fight

 

[rogersix]

I don't know if it's masochistic to partly want him back as PM just so this very thing can happen - and they are out of power for the rest of my life (56).

this is the best possible outcome, bunglec*nt would also end the careers of a lot of deplorable people

 

[rogersix]

Yes. One forgets that the tories continued to have sufficient sense to realize that no Brexit deal was possible right through the May era (which is why every plan was voted down).

Unfortunately they then did the lunatic thing of deciding that even though no deal was possible, the solution was to just leave anyway, and blame the PM. Sensible tories then sat back and let the ERG get on with it, using Johnson and his cheeky charm to front the exercise. And what did they do? Opt for one of the plans that they themselves had voted down when May was pm.

What were they thinking? It isn't as if there was any opposition to outwit at the time, with Corbyn offering nothing in the way of leadership and vision. These wounds are 100% self-inflicted.

Rather than flounce if Johnson returns (or tries to return) why did they not have the balls to say 'look, the Brexit vote was advisory and now we have looked at it, we can't work out a safe way to do it, so let's leave it'. Corbyn and Farrage would have continued to back 'leave' and sensible tories would have won the next GE with the loonies split between Corbyn and Farrage (who would have risen from the dead if we had remained). It seems that the tory MPs will instead embrace any sort of devilry or lunacy just to remain in power. Even devilry with which they profoundly disagree.

Ironically the only consistent voices here are the ERG, who have never wavered, never had any plan other than leave-EU, don't care about anything else, and remain relaxed. Some people admire people who never 'U-turn', never change the plan. As in many contexts, acquiring a simplistic vision and sticking with a simplistic stance, even after it has been demonstrated to be foolish or dangerous, is the mark of an unsound mind. It is the reason parties lose power, managers are sacked, careers founder and relationships collapse. We should be in the political era of Potter, now, but instead we have had 10 years of John Beck.

Incidentally, I have seen people say, a year or so ago, that a bit of post-Brexit pain would be worth it in the long run. Is there anyone left on this board, I wonder, who is prepared to argue that despite subsequent events (the emergence of Johnson, the debasement of the office of PM by Johnson, the deposition of Johnson, and the tory collapse), making leaving the EU the top agenda item all those years ago, then backing Johnson in order to 'get Brexit done', remains the right course of action?

top post, a penny to a pound says you get no sensible arguement!

 

[rogersix]

It’s not planned yet but will be an inevitable consequence of someone so hated getting back into power.

keep me in the loop, ta

 

[Eric the meek]

Yes. One forgets that the tories continued to have sufficient sense to realize that no Brexit deal was possible right through the May era (which is why every plan was voted down).

Unfortunately they then did the lunatic thing of deciding that even though no deal was possible, the solution was to just leave anyway, and blame the PM. Sensible tories then sat back and let the ERG get on with it, using Johnson and his cheeky charm to front the exercise. And what did they do? Opt for one of the plans that they themselves had voted down when May was pm.

What were they thinking? It isn't as if there was any opposition to outwit at the time, with Corbyn offering nothing in the way of leadership and vision. These wounds are 100% self-inflicted.

Rather than flounce if Johnson returns (or tries to return) why did they not have the balls to say 'look, the Brexit vote was advisory and now we have looked at it, we can't work out a safe way to do it, so let's leave it'. Corbyn and Farrage would have continued to back 'leave' and sensible tories would have won the next GE with the loonies split between Corbyn and Farrage (who would have risen from the dead if we had remained). It seems that the tory MPs will instead embrace any sort of devilry or lunacy just to remain in power. Even devilry with which they profoundly disagree.

Ironically the only consistent voices here are the ERG, who have never wavered, never had any plan other than leave-EU, don't care about anything else, and remain relaxed. Some people admire people who never 'U-turn', never change the plan. As in many contexts, acquiring a simplistic vision and sticking with a simplistic stance, even after it has been demonstrated to be foolish or dangerous, is the mark of an unsound mind. It is the reason parties lose power, managers are sacked, careers founder and relationships collapse. We should be in the political era of Potter, now, but instead we have had 10 years of John Beck.

Incidentally, I have seen people say, a year or so ago, that a bit of post-Brexit pain would be worth it in the long run. Is there anyone left on this board, I wonder, who is prepared to argue that despite subsequent events (the emergence of Johnson, the debasement of the office of PM by Johnson, the deposition of Johnson, and the tory collapse), making leaving the EU the top agenda item all those years ago, then backing Johnson in order to 'get Brexit done', remains the right course of action?

Boris considers himself above such matters. Even when he was being called a liar, no not just being called a liar, - having it spelled out to him that he had lied - all he did was bluster, obfuscate, avoid, deflect. All the while bearing a disarming smirk. He didn't accept that he done anything wrong. No contrition. None. Zero.

I took particular note of when the whole world was camped outside his house, waiting for him to declare whether he was in favour of Brexit, it was revealed that he had written two articles for the Telegraph, one in favour of Brexit, and one against. Brexit was just a vehicle for him in the advancement of his career. He made the right call.

He takes soundings, checks which way the wind is blowing, and acts accordingly. His actions bear no relation to what may or may not be in the national interest.

The wind is slowly veering round to the direction of 'Reverse Brexit'. But what will Boris do? Write another article for the Telegraph? Probably, yes.

 

[Hamilton]

Give it to Nadine

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Local parties are reported to be telling their sitting tory MP that if they don't come out in support of Johnson they will be deselected.

And we sneered at Militant local labour parties trying to deselect moderates back in the 80s......

In this regard, I would argue that local parties do have the right to deselect an MP, albeit not till general election time. However, they also need to consider whether replacing a sitting MP with someone else will increase or decrease the likelihood the candidate will win the public vote.

At the end of the day this will all be a gamble - will having Johnson as leader increase or decrease the chance of a tory general election win?

Despite my loathing of the man, I suspect that the tories will become much more likely to win the next GE with Johnson at the helm. Albeit this is without his chance of winning increasing from the level it was at when he resigned. It is instead a reflection of the damage done by Truss and the absolute absence of any credible candidates among the tory MPs. My god, they really are a useless bunch!

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Boris considers himself above such matters. Even when he was being called a liar, no not just being called a liar, - having it spelled out to him that he had lied - all he did was bluster, obfuscate, avoid, deflect. All the while bearing a disarming smirk. He didn't accept that he done anything wrong. No contrition. None. Zero.

I took particular note of when the whole world was camped outside his house, waiting for him to declare whether he was in favour of Brexit, it was revealed that he had written two articles for the Telegraph, one in favour of Brexit, and one against. Brexit was just a vehicle for him in the advancement of his career. He made the right call.

He takes soundings, checks which way the wind is blowing, and acts accordingly. His actions bear no relation to what may or may not be in the national interest.

The wind is slowly veering round to the direction of 'Reverse Brexit'. But what will Boris do? Write another article for the Telegraph? Probably, yes.

I would be truly astonished if Johnson advocating reversing Brexit. This would alienate his core support. If you take away 'get Brexit done' what's left?

I know that some people thank him from saving us from Covid by his bold vaccine plan (with which his true involvement was zero) but try telling that to the relatives of the dead.

There is something else big for which Johnson falsely gets credit, but it has momentarily slipped my mind.

So, Brexiteers aside, who remains to vote for him if he decides to reverse Brexit? It would be a bold and courageous move that would mean admitting getting it horrendously wrong. I'd put money on this never happening. More's the pity.

Would I vote for him if he vowed to do it? No. I won't even do the usual hand wringing 'this is all hypothetical and extremely unlikely' dance. No. It's no. If, in such a circumstance, Labour turned all Brexitty, I'd vote liberal.

 

[Eric the meek]

From the BBC 20 mins ago:

Almost half of Tory MPs go public with their support​

Almost half of all Tory MPs - 169 out of 357 - have gone public with their support for who they want to succeed Liz Truss as the next prime minister.
The BBC now estimates that Rishi Sunak has reached 100 public backers needed to qualify as a candidate in the leadership race.
The current tally is:

• Rishi Sunak - 102 MPs
• Boris Johnson - 46 MPs
• Penny Mordaunt - 21 MPs

-------------------------------------
Will Boris reach the 100 MPs?

I would have thought the nailed on Boris diehards will have already gone public with their support.

 

[astralavi]

From the BBC 20 mins ago:

Almost half of Tory MPs go public with their support​

Almost half of all Tory MPs - 169 out of 357 - have gone public with their support for who they want to succeed Liz Truss as the next prime minister.
The BBC now estimates that Rishi Sunak has reached 100 public backers needed to qualify as a candidate in the leadership race.
The current tally is:

• Rishi Sunak - 102 MPs
• Boris Johnson - 46 MPs
• Penny Mordaunt - 21 MPs

-------------------------------------
Will Boris reach the 100 MPs?

I would have thought the nailed on Boris diehards will have already gone public with their support.

 

[astralavi]

Reports are that Rishi will not stand if Boris reaches 100 which seems a clever move

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

From the BBC 20 mins ago:

Almost half of Tory MPs go public with their support​

Almost half of all Tory MPs - 169 out of 357 - have gone public with their support for who they want to succeed Liz Truss as the next prime minister.
The BBC now estimates that Rishi Sunak has reached 100 public backers needed to qualify as a candidate in the leadership race.
The current tally is:

• Rishi Sunak - 102 MPs
• Boris Johnson - 46 MPs
• Penny Mordaunt - 21 MPs

-------------------------------------
Will Boris reach the 100 MPs?

I would have thought the nailed on Boris diehards will have already gone public with their support.

Interesting. I just hope that there are not 100 tory MPs who back him. If there are.....he will become PM again. The party members will see to that.

Only the tory MPs can stop this from happening. Tories MPs who ditched Johnson either because they saw him as an election liability or because they regarded him as fundamentally unfit to be prime minister (because of the lies). Tory MPs who will have declared themselves now as either persuaded he is no longer an election liability, or no longer concerned that he is fundamentally unfit to be prime minister (because of the lies).

What a craven bunch of absolute shits.

I will salute those, however, who refuse to back him. Men and women of honour.

 

[Eric the meek]

I would be truly astonished if Johnson advocating reversing Brexit. This would alienate his core support. If you take away 'get Brexit done' what's left?

I know that some people thank him from saving us from Covid by his bold vaccine plan (with which his true involvement was zero) but try telling that to the relatives of the dead.

There is something else big for which Johnson falsely gets credit, but it has momentarily slipped my mind.

So, Brexiteers aside, who remains to vote for him if he decides to reverse Brexit? It would be a bold and courageous move that would mean admitting getting it horrendously wrong. I'd put money on this never happening. More's the pity.

Would I vote for him if he vowed to do it? No. I won't even do the usual hand wringing 'this is all hypothetical and extremely unlikely' dance. No. It's no. If, in such a circumstance, Labour turned all Brexitty, I'd vote liberal.

I wasn't suggesting Boris will make a U-turn now - sorry if I didn't make that clear.

The Brexit data is slowly trickling through. Inflation, GDP among a host of nations, it is slowly becoming easier to split off the Brexit effect from Covid, Ukraine etc.
With the passage of time, there will be more, and more data available, telling us what you, I and many others on here, already suspect.

Once this data is out in the public domain and being debated, the wind will change. For this weeks' leadership election however, I agree there isn't a chance that will happen. All three candidates are Brexiteers after all.....