Newcastle v Preston

[The Fish]

[MENTION=35039]The Fish[/MENTION] - I think you're getting a little worked up over nothing here. I think most Brighton fans either like or at least are not bothered either way by Newcastle. The general malaise here is with football in general. The gulf between the prem and the rest of the football league shouldn't be as wide as it is (in fact, they shouldn't be separate entities) and it's not good for anyone. Hope i can make it to St James Park next season as I missed it this year (and you'll have to put us pitch-side this time, I believe.

That's a huge amount of money, far more than we're going to spend and (when wages are taken into account) completely unsustainable. I am hopeful we'll stay up next year but I doubt we'll spend much more than £10-£20m on purchases.

I'm not worked up mate, amused and a little baffled, but not worked up.

I think there were rumblings about putting you pitchside, but we're working on avoiding that I think. Which I think is daft. St James' atmosphere is at it's best when the away fans aren't having to use Sherpas to pass down messages to the home lads.

How do you mean they shouldn't be separate entities? The administration or the actual league?

 

[Stat Brother]

Hi, I said "back to where we belong", when?

I said 12th - 15th, is that not bottom half?

Oh and Newcastle United have spent 22 season in the Premier League, 12 in the top half, 10 in the bottom, our average league position is 10th and our average points haul is 54pts. We've only had 2 relegations in 24 years and have spent the grand total of 2 seasons out of the top flight in that time.

Saying we're a club that fights relegation is just not true and is likely a reflection of the damage Mike Ashley has done to our club. Though even in his tenure our avg league position is 13th, pulling on average 44pts a season. (The average points haul for 17th in that period is 37pts).

Your rather dramatic proclamation is a bit silly isn't it? They're setting the club up to fail by advocating that the best manager we've had since Robson is properly backed in the Transfer Market? I don't think that's setting the club up to fail, do you?

Who's talking about selling everyone, and building a top half team like? I specifically said 12th-15th. That's not top half. I've also not talked about selling "everyone". So, y'know, calm down?

I think Newcastle are going to have a better season because of our experience, our financial muscle and our manager.

It's all here:-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/39699186

& here

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Newcastle_United_F.C._seasons

But to address your point, I guess things will be different this time:-

Saying we're a club that fights relegation is just not true and is likely a reflection of the damage Mike Ashley has done to our club.

Nothing can go wrong now.

 

[Weststander]

I'm not worked up mate, amused and a little baffled, but not worked up.

I think there were rumblings about putting you pitchside, but we're working on avoiding that I think. Which I think is daft. St James' atmosphere is at it's best when the away fans aren't having to use Sherpas to pass down messages to the home lads.

How do you mean they shouldn't be separate entities? The administration or the actual league?

He obviously meant that the four divisions should be run by a single governing body as they were for a 100 and something years until 1992.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

I think there were rumblings about putting you pitchside, but we're working on avoiding that I think. Which I think is daft. St James' atmosphere is at it's best when the away fans aren't having to use Sherpas to pass down messages to the home lads.

Its a new PL rule isn't it, that you have to offer some away capacity in lower tiers?

 

[Nixonator]

I think there were rumblings about putting you pitchside, but we're working on avoiding that I think. Which I think is daft. St James' atmosphere is at it's best when the away fans aren't having to use Sherpas to pass down messages to the home lads.?

Think it's a new PL rule mate, see here:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football...h-side-at-every-premier-league-game-next-sea/

 

[The Fish]

Who will finish higher in the PL next season, NU or Albion?

More than one way to skin a cat, so both approaches might work. But even Burnley, CP and Bournemouth have spent substantial sums in fees and wages to get there and stay there; people on NSC keep saying Burnley have done it without spending much, which is erroneous. Check it out online.

For the Albion, I agree with you. I personally think at least 5 top flight players will be required to keep us up.

Dunno, some teams take to the Premier League like a duck to water, some don't. If I were to put money on it, I'd probably put us ahead of you, but I'd want good odds before I did. Burnley have done it without making huge changes to their first team, but yeah they've spent a bit, £40m?

Spending money isn't a guarantee of anything, you need the right man to buy the right man for the right role in the right team. Some of the best signings we've ever made were for buttons (Rob Lee, Brian Kilcline), some were for world record sums (Shearer)

 

[The Fish]

Its a new PL rule isn't it, that you have to offer some away capacity in lower tiers?

Think it's a new PL rule mate, see here:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football...h-side-at-every-premier-league-game-next-sea/

Yeah I know, but I'm fairly certain that the layout of our stadium presents unique problems to that. To have the fans pitchside, we'd need to either build temporary walls on the concourses to separate home & away fans, or build new entrances/exits.

I'll see if I can find the article.

http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/away-fans-set-stay-leazes-12763258

 

[GT49er]

Yes, we spent a lot, but Benitez didn't spend £55m adding to an already strong squad, he literally bought a new team (1 'keeper, 4 def, 4 mid, 2 Str) because the one he inherited wasn't getting close to the play offs, let alone the automatic spots. We spent well within our means and look likely to finish 2nd. We should have kept the money in the bank and not gone for promotion this year? I should walk round in barefoot because some people can't afford shoes? We're not cheating the system, we're not endangering our long term financial future so I don't really understand the complaints from Brighton fans.

Oh for pete's sake! Take that chip off your shoulder and try reading what the post says, and reply to that, not to whatever's going on in your head!

1). Yes, I know it was almost entirely a new team that Benitez bought. Where does anybody say different?
2). Yes, I know you spent within your means. Your 'means' however were pretty huge to start with. Those players you sold were very expensive players - the fact that you were able to sell players to buy virtually a whole team and still make a profit on the deal shows that you had a lot of money in the first place.
3). Yes, I know Benitez spent well; no problem with that - and the fact that he got you back shows that he did.
4). Nobody's suggested that you shouldn't have spent that money. Of course you should have - it's not cheating (it was, I believe, one of your fans that first called it cheating, in their 'apology to the other 23 clubs in the division') and it would have been daft not to spend it.
5). It remains a fact that, by one means or another, you had £55M available to spend, which is vastly more than the other teams in the division.

Now read my post again, and tell me where I said anything critical of Newcastle, or of Benitez, or where I mentioned cheating or suggested you had done anything improper. Just pointing out that while accepting it wasn't parachute payments that funded your transfers, nonetheless you had a lot of funds available, a lot more than almost anybody else in the division (probably apart from Villa, except that they seem to have a few expensive players on their books who are pretty unsaleable!)

 

[bhanutz]

Is your position that Newcastle a) didn't deserve automatic promotion because we're a rich football club or b ) their fans shouldn't be happy about automatic promotion because we're a rich football club?

My position is that I have heard quite a few Geordies saying they have spent Nothing...Due to a Net spend and not using parachute payments. The fact is you have spent more than most teams could even dream of spending and the wages must be astronomical. I reckon any manager could have got you promoted on that basis.

 

[Nixonator]

Yeah I know, but I'm fairly certain that the layout of our stadium presents unique problems to that. To have the fans pitchside, we'd need to either build temporary walls on the concourses to separate home & away fans, or build new entrances/exits.

I'll see if I can find the article.

http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/away-fans-set-stay-leazes-12763258

If you do get an exemption I hope it's only temporary.

It's not right that you stick us up in the skies to be honest.

 

[Bold Seagull]

My position is that I have heard quite a few Geordies saying they have spent Nothing...Due to a Net spend and not using parachute payments. The fact is you have spent more than most teams could even dream of spending and the wages must be astronomical. I reckon any manager could have got you promoted on that basis.

Really? Perhaps you could let Derby know!

 

[Nixonator]

I reckon any manager could have got you promoted on that basis.

That's bollocks and you know it. There's a whole host of managers just off the top of my head that could have comfortably ****ed it up.

 

[The Fish]

Now read my post again, and tell me where I said anything critical of Newcastle, or of Benitez, or where I mentioned cheating or suggested you had done anything improper. Just pointing out that while accepting it wasn't parachute payments that funded your transfers, nonetheless you had a lot of funds available, a lot more than almost anybody else in the division (probably apart from Villa, except that they seem to have a few expensive players on their books who are pretty unsaleable!)

Well, by referencing the money spent, the implication is that it cheapens the achievement. 'Well sure you won promotion, but you spent loads of money' Do you see? When the world and his dog is adding a caveat to your achievement it ruffles feathers. Had people said 'Well sure, you won promotion, but Hughton had the most time to work with the best squad', I'm sure you'd feel the need to defend his achievement, no?

 

[Triggaaar]

Giants beat minnows at home, so predictable, I can't believe that some on NSC thought little old Preston would get a result.

We got 1 point of them this season. And I think 2 last season.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Well, by referencing the money spent, the implication is that it cheapens the achievement. 'Well sure you won promotion, but you spent loads of money' Do you see?

It doesn't 'cheapen' the achievement. It merely puts it into context.

Not sure why this is even a discussion. The CONTEXT of your achievement is that you managed to do, what you should have done at a canter, given the resources at your disposal. The 'celebrations' in the stands at SJP last night are all the evidence needed that your peers all fully understand this.

 

[The Fish]

My position is that I have heard quite a few Geordies saying they have spent Nothing...Due to a Net spend and not using parachute payments. The fact is you have spent more than most teams could even dream of spending and the wages must be astronomical. I reckon any manager could have got you promoted on that basis.

Except that a team spent more than us, and look like they'll finish about 10th, so it's churlish to dismiss Benitez' achievement.

If you do get an exemption I hope it's only temporary.

It's not right that you stick us up in the skies to be honest.

I agree, the best atmosphere's I remember at SJP were when the away fans were in the Leazes corner, but now the new stand's gone up and part of that is a bar, I don't think they can put you back there.

You can't be in the Milburn (massive stand with the tunnel) without being up in level 7 as that's where the corporate and Bar 1892 seats are. Can't have you in the Gallowgate, because it's ours and you can't have it. I reckon you'll end up in the little East Stand eventually.

 

[The Fish]

It doesn't 'cheapen' the achievement. It merely puts it into context.

Not sure why this is even a discussion. The CONTEXT of your achievement is that you managed to do, what you should have done at a canter, given the resources at your disposal. The 'celebrations' in the stands at SJP last night are all the evidence needed that your peers all fully understand this.

That's my point, each message of congratulation has come with the caveat.

"Well done on winning automatic promotion withallthatmoneyyouspentonplayersitwasagivenanyway, but well done you"

Have you had Burton and Rotherham fans congratulating you on your successes while referencing the amount you spent on players? Course not, that would be churlish.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

That's my point, each message of congratulation has come with the caveat.

"Well done on winning automatic promotion withallthatmoneyyouspentonplayersitwasagivenanyway, but well done you"

Have you had Burton and Rotherham fans congratulating you on your successes while referencing the amount you spent on players? Course not, that would be churlish.

That's quite amusing - that in your mind, Burton and Rotherham are to us, what we are to you (despite sitting above you in the league).

I consider my head to be duly patted.

 

[Triggaaar]

Also, this thing about parachute payments comes up all the time, we've spent £0 parachute payments. Not a penny. Everything we've spent has come from player sales, and even then we made a profit.

Yes, it's a mistake to say it was parachute payments. The money was from player sales, but it makes no difference where the money came from, the total cost of your squad is huge. I think you may have subs that cost more than our entire squad. Not that I'm complaining about your team, I hardly expect you to try and do it on the cheap to make things fair, it is what it is.

Even though you've been leading the table for the majority of the season (I think?)

Have we? I thought you had

Delighted for Hughton, pleased to see a new fresh team in the top flight instead of Middlesbeige and their ilk.

Thanks.

Have you had Burton and Rotherham fans congratulating you on your successes while referencing the amount you spent on players? Course not, that would be churlish.

We have spent far far more than them, so we should be finishing above them. If we were celebrating finishing above them, they'd be right to say 'well so you bloody should with the amount you've spent'. But we're celebrating promotion, and that's not so easy on the amount we've spent. So your comparison doesn't quite work.

Except that a team spent more than us, and look like they'll finish about 10th, so it's churlish to dismiss Benitez' achievement.

I'll take your word for it that Villa spent more on new signings, but what about the existing squad that you kept - was Villa's or your squad more expensive (transfer fees and wages)?

 

[Stat Brother]

I wonder how much of the £55m would have been spent on players for this season without parachute payments?