Is your position that Newcastle a) didn't deserve automatic promotion because we're a rich football club or b ) their fans shouldn't be happy about automatic promotion because we're a rich football club?
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Newcastle v Preston
- Thread starter Beach Hut
- Start date
Is your position that Newcastle a) didn't deserve automatic promotion because we're a rich football club or b ) their fans shouldn't be happy about automatic promotion because we're a rich football club?
BBassic
I changed this.
- Jul 28, 2011
- 13,056
Yeah, hard to argue with that. The penalty gaffe was absolutely mental. I know one name for sure no Albion fan wants to, but definitely will, hear next year; a certain Mike De@n (try typing his name without the @ symbol).
Widely regarded as having cost us promotion last season through punishing the injury and not the foul.
The last time you spent big, you ended up in the Championship.
The moment you're promoted you contract palaceitis and the demands far outstrip rational thought.
I think the officials played a huge part in us not winning the title. I know that "it balances out over a season" and I'd agree with that most seasons. But this season I've seen more dodgy penalties given (Forest), fewer stone wall penalties given (Forest again, Leeds), more red cards tackles go without punishment (Bannan Shef Wed) and perfectly good goals chalked off for imaginary infringements, than in any other season.
That's not sour grapes, we still could have done better despite those calls, but it's the egregious nature of the errors that prickles. I mean, this isn't marginal offside calls, or seen 'em given" penalties, but tear-your-hair-out "How the **** wasn't that given?!" stuff.
Congratulations to Newcastle.
I was very impressed by their tweet wishing Connor Goldson well earlier in the season.
https://twitter.com/NUFC/status/827876295581253632
Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk
I was very impressed by their tweet wishing Connor Goldson well earlier in the season.
https://twitter.com/NUFC/status/827876295581253632
Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk
Bold Seagull
strong and stable with me, or...
I think the arguments aren't against Newcastle United, but against the wider financial gulf between the two divisions. That said, I don't think the standard has widened, and if anything there appears to be a top 7 in the Premier League, followed by 13 clubs any which of whom could go down if they get it slightly wrong one year.
Personally I agree, you spent what you needed to spend in order to ensure a first time return. That hurts the rest of the division who cannot get anywhere near that spending, but then who can get near the spending or the top 4 or 5 in the PL?
We've probably over achieved this season, you have probably underachieved, but given nothing is guaranteed in football, its still a massive job well done.
I'm quite close to a Geordie mate who now lives in Brighton, and he was sure you would find a way to mess it up. He is therefore delighted. For us, if we do finish above you, then it will be one of the great achievements of this football club.
Nixonator
Well-known member
Well done the toon.
Are you suggesting that if you spend money you go down?
Premier League isn't about spending a fortune, it's about savvy recruitment. We didn't go down because we spent £80m, we went down because we had a bad manager, no depth in key areas, no leaders on the pitch and a squad of mercenaries with little Premier League experience.
The squad Benitez bought was grand for the Championship, but 90% of the right backs in the league could pop Gouffran in their pocket, never to be seen again. Most of the centre forwards could run rings around Hanley, Lascelles and a lot of centre backs could handle Gayle or Mitrovic without too much trouble.
To build a team to compete for 12th-15th in the Premier League Newcastle United are going to need to spend >£60m on a combination of players as good as our current best, improving our squad and buying 1-2 outstanding players.
Nixonator
Well-known member
I think the officials played a huge part in us not winning the title. I know that "it balances out over a season" and I'd agree with that most seasons. But this season I've seen more dodgy penalties given (Forest), fewer stone wall penalties given (Forest again, Leeds), more red cards tackles go without punishment (Bannan Shef Wed) and perfectly good goals chalked off for imaginary infringements, than in any other season.
That's not sour grapes, we still could have done better despite those calls, but it's the egregious nature of the errors that prickles. I mean, this isn't marginal offside calls, or seen 'em given" penalties, but tear-your-hair-out "How the **** wasn't that given?!" stuff.
Issue is you only have a narrow view of your own games. That kind of shit happens every season in this league, it was only last game in fact that one of our players got scythed down in Norwich's box and nothing given - less than a minute later it's in our net for 2-0. The refereeing standard down in the Championship is awful and as albion fans we can't avoid the irony that when they sent us a PL referee to officiate our do-or-die game last year, he made a catastrophically shit decision that killed the game and sent boro up.
I don't really get the criticism of the toon to be honest, you spent what you needed to spend to give you the best chance of bouncing straight back up and that's exactly what you did. Villa spent alot too. I suppose the only criticism that can be levelled at you is how the **** you managed to get relegated with that squad and the resources at your disposal. Steve McClaren goes a long way in explaining it I guess.
Regardless, congratulations on promotion and look forward to another (and hopefully more) visits to SJP in the future.
Exactly, our automatic promotion doesn't diminish your success, it magnifies it.
re: the financial gap, you're bang on. When Villa and ourselves came down we were able to spend a fortune, because even players like Janmaat who hadn't dazzled were able to be shifted for £7m. And then suddenly we're facing Rotherham who's entire roster of players is valued lower than our substitute centre back. This myth that the Premier League money would filter down is just a convenient lie we're all told.
That said, when you get into the league, you will buy players for sums that seemed out of your reach 3 seasons ago, because you pretty much need to, but also because those players were hitherto uninterested in joining you. You'll be able to sign a squad player from PSG simply because you're a Premier League team, you'll be able to cherry pick one of the best players from the Championship and sign him for £20m because you make 5x that from the tv deal even if you finish 20th.
Bear in mind though, this period right now is a moment that could define or destroy your club. What I mean is that there are teams who've benefited from a decade of Sky TV money, and have somehow conspired to make staggering losses, signing players for huge sums then losing them for a fraction of their initial cost. I am , of course, talking about Sunderland. For a decade they've suckled at the Premier League teat and every year they've just survived, every year they've failed to learn from their mistakes and now, finally, they're coming down. Yet when they do, they can't sell average players for £7m, the relegation release clauses they had to include in the contract to convince a player to join them will be activated and there goes Defoe, Ndong, Kone for buttons. The squad they have isn't good enough for the Play Offs, they can't sell to buy the squad for promotion and they're so riddled with debt they can't get it from their owner. This is all because they were spent much, but more importantly, they spent often and poorly.
This is what you need to avoid, spend a bit, sure, but don't overreach. Don't blindly spend £14.5m on Afonso Alves, nor expect Glenn Murray to do as well.
e.g. in conversations with my Newcastle friends, we think we could need;
A first choice CB - £7/9m
Quality cover for Shelvey CM - £6m
A proper #10 - £15m
Gayle's probably good for 10 goals, so we need another CF - £15-25m
That's £43m-£55m and we think we're being conservative. £80m would be a better idea, and given our surplus from the summer, the money we can raise this summer in sales, plus a commitment from Ashley, it's doable.
fwiw, I don't think you'll necessarily need to spend that, depending on your club's ambitions, but you will obliterate your record fee, a few times.
I suppose.
I mean if you discount all of your £55m summer spending, he was starting from a squad bought in the poundshop.
Something like:
.........................................Darlow (£3m)
Haidara (£2m), Lascelles (£4m), Mbemba (£8.5m), Anita (£6.7m)
Gouffran (£0.5m), Shelvey (£12m), Colback (free), Aarons (free)
...............................Perez (£1.6m), Mitrovic (£13m)
£51m-worth of (nine) retained players, BEFORE the summer spending.
Utterly clueless.
In the last 10 seasons Newcastle have finished inside the top 10 of the Premier League once, having been relegated twice.
Yet here we are less than 24 hours after your second promotion listening to how 'you've get to spend big to get back where you belong'.
Newcastle belong in the bottom half, fighting relegation - that's their position.
Yet the grand dames of the club are already setting the entire city up to fail - again.
2 very opposite promotions at play:-
Sell everyone, spend millions, build a top half team.
Or
Strengthen where needed, give it a go, take stock in a years time.
Who do you think are going to have the better season?
Weststander
Well-known member
Hi,
Your club totally deserved promotion, with the Albion, as both were clearly better than all the opposition over a long season. Every game you played would have been a proverbial cup final. The pressure on Rafa must have been immense, especially the last few weeks with some dodgy results and the chasing pack closing in at times.
The Albion and NU have far superior stats than the chasing pack, both have been very consistent throughout compared to the others and play football that's pleasing on the eye.
It's not as easy as some make out. Look at the Villa squad cost and player wage bill, and the money Wednesday and Derby have thrown at it over a few windows ... all three outperformed massively by the top two. Your spending power was a big plus, but guaranteed nowt.
I'm elated about the Mackems and Smoggies pending relegations. I've met scummy hateful Mackems on holidays where I was surprised about their general hatred towards other non obvious clubs such as Liverpool, Arsenal and Spurs. A strange way to spend a holiday in the Balearics starring at SSN wishing shite on those clubs! The Smoggies - enough said as an Albion fan. Must be hilarious for you.
Good luck for next season.
Cheers. If you've not been before Newcastle is a lovely away weekend if you can get up here for Friday night through til Sunday morning.
Oh I know the standard has been poor for everyone, but the number of inexplicably bad examples officiating is staggering. And while I've watched loads of Championship games (and seen poor officiating) I've not seen the Forest/Burton levels of nonsense in any other game... anyway, it's not sour grapes, you've earned the title by being consistently the best team.
We never should have been relegated, but the legacy of a broken transfer policy, poor management on the training ground and on the pitch and players failing to take responsibility saw us drop. Same as Villa to be honest. Same as last time we dropped too. You'd have thought Ashley would have learned that the only way to make money from a football club is to put football matters first. It doesn't matter if you can sign Sissoko for £2.5m and sell him for £30m, you've just lost £100m in tv money by employing the cheap managerial option who's just got you relegated.
Build a squad, climb the league, assault the cups, play good football, raise awareness, build a global brand, sell players you've bought/brought through the youth system as you build a squad and climb the league, while you assault the cups with good footb.....
[MENTION=35039]The Fish[/MENTION] - I think you're getting a little worked up over nothing here. I think most Brighton fans either like or at least are not bothered either way by Newcastle. The general malaise here is with football in general. The gulf between the prem and the rest of the football league shouldn't be as wide as it is (in fact, they shouldn't be separate entities) and it's not good for anyone. Hope i can make it to St James Park next season as I missed it this year (and you'll have to put us pitch-side this time, I believe.
That's a huge amount of money, far more than we're going to spend and (when wages are taken into account) completely unsustainable. I am hopeful we'll stay up next year but I doubt we'll spend much more than £10-£20m on purchases.
That's a huge amount of money, far more than we're going to spend and (when wages are taken into account) completely unsustainable. I am hopeful we'll stay up next year but I doubt we'll spend much more than £10-£20m on purchases.
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Transfer fee doesn't always equate to actual value, or worth to the team now does it? Otherwise Moussa Sissoko would be one of the best players in the Premier League and Zlatan Ibrahimovic wouldn't get on Man Utd bench.
thanks for joining in though.
Weststander
Well-known member
Who will finish higher in the PL next season, NU or Albion?
More than one way to skin a cat, so both approaches might work. But even Burnley, CP and Bournemouth have spent substantial sums in fees and wages to get there and stay there; people on NSC keep saying Burnley have done it without spending much, which is erroneous. Check it out online.
For the Albion, I agree with you. I personally think at least 5 top flight players will be required to keep us up.
Haven't Burnley spent something like £51m, but I guess that's all relative against the money coming in.
Both approaches may well work, I just can't get my head around the NUFC logic of another rebuild to guarantee their non-existent place inside the top 10.
When did Mike Ashley become Mike Rational?
Hi, I said "back to where we belong", when?
I said 12th - 15th, is that not bottom half?
Oh and Newcastle United have spent 22 season in the Premier League, 12 in the top half, 10 in the bottom, our average league position is 10th and our average points haul is 54pts. We've only had 2 relegations in 24 years and have spent the grand total of 2 seasons out of the top flight in that time.
Saying we're a club that fights relegation is just not true and is likely a reflection of the damage Mike Ashley has done to our club. Though even in his tenure our avg league position is 13th, pulling on average 44pts a season. (The average points haul for 17th in that period is 37pts).
Your rather dramatic proclamation is a bit silly isn't it? They're setting the club up to fail by advocating that the best manager we've had since Robson is properly backed in the Transfer Market? I don't think that's setting the club up to fail, do you?
Who's talking about selling everyone, and building a top half team like? I specifically said 12th-15th. That's not top half. I've also not talked about selling "everyone". So, y'know, calm down?
I think Newcastle are going to have a better season because of our experience, our financial muscle and our manager.
