[Help] New bank fraud - advice sought

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I’ve always been confident on money matters and savvy to scams, but was moments away a few months back to be being scammed via an email with a link from the TV Licensing Authority, telling me that my DD had failed.

Facing many new personal and business emails in my outlook inbox, it seemed an innocuous and tedious bit of domestic admin to clear.

Clever by the wnkrs, because in the minds-eye of recipients we’re talking a tiny monthly sum. But once they have access, they can steak an entire bank balance.

At the last second, I’ll pulled back. A lesson to me to slow down a bit.

I never do any business by phone that I haven't triggered myself. My place on the 'spectrum' means I get unsettled by anything peculiar or inconsistent (as an aside, this is the main reason I have so many on ignore on NSC - too much nuttiness with added nastiness and sadness is quite disturbing, and it's best I not engage with it - this is a new personal insight!).

 

[giveusfalmerplease]

To protect himself in future, he could run a Lloyds savings account too, only keeping enough in the current account for needs. Limiting any damage if other ‘s succeed in any other scam, or contactless frauds should he lose his debit card.

thats interesting and something i hadnt considered. natwest recently stopped allowing me to transfer funds from my savings account to an external source, only to another linked account so probably some form of protection.

 

[WATFORD zero]

I’ve always been confident on money matters and savvy to scams, but was moments away a few months back to be being scammed via an email with a link from the TV Licensing Authority, telling me that my DD had failed.

Facing many new personal and business emails in my outlook inbox, it seemed an innocuous and tedious bit of domestic admin to clear.

Clever by the wnkrs, because in the minds-eye of recipients we’re talking a tiny monthly sum. But once they have access, they can steak an entire bank balance.

At the last second, I’ll pulled back. A lesson to me to slow down a bit.

I got the same mail and was about to fall for it a few weeks back. I happened to say to my wife that the DD had failed and she pointed out that we pay annually, just in time

And however this turn out, [MENTION=1200]Harry Wilson's tackle[/MENTION] you can tell your son that you'd much rather have an honest trusting son than £1200, every time

 

[Weststander]

I never do any business by phone that I haven't triggered myself. My place on the 'spectrum' means I get unsettled by anything peculiar or inconsistent (as an aside, this is the main reason I have so many on ignore on NSC - too much nuttiness with added nastiness and sadness is quite disturbing, and it's best I not engage with it - this is a new personal insight!).

In the summer, perhaps in my imagination, NSC appeared to become a place with far fewer spiteful threads and posts ... not just on politics. Fewer vendettas or unbridled hatred against people or peoples they’d never met, always from middle aged blokes. Perhaps the Bear Pit helped, perhaps relief at the end of Lockdown?

I can see the attraction of the ignore function, people can blank out these haters who’re trying to drag everyone down to their limited level.

 

[thedonkeycentrehalf]

Hi @HWT. Very sorry to hear about that, the scummers are relentlessly inventive. This must be a recent scam, because the texted code to confirm a purchase bank routine, isn’t that old.

A warning to all about another scam now doing the rounds, I received this text this time yesterday:

View attachment 130426

Luckily I have no Halifax accounts, so knew it was from scammers.

Anyone with the Halifax making the mistake of clicking on the link, are taken to a legit looking Halifax bank portal. All your logon details and passwords are then gleaned by the crooks, who’ll strip the victim of everything in Halifax accounts.

Mrs DCH has received this a couple of times this week but luckily had the good sense to delete the text immediately.

 

[amexee]

I bank with hsbc and was shocked by them a couple of weeks ago. I made a transfer of £1000 and they rang me. They asked me to then go through security with them. I refused as you are always told not to give out any info. As I would not give the foreign man my information my transaction did not complete.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I got the same mail and was about to fall for it a few weeks back. I happened to say to my wife that the DD had failed and she pointed out that we pay annually, just in time

And however this turn out, [MENTION=1200]Harry Wilson's tackle[/MENTION] you can tell your son that you'd much rather have an honest trusting son than £1200, every time

Cheers for that. I agree

 

[studio150]

No, I think what it's likely to be is this...

1. Bad guys have card details and contact number.
2. Bad guys phone HWT's son and say "Dodgy transactions going on, we're going to send you some texts for verification"
3. Bad guys commence purchase transaction online. This is detected by bank's anti-fraud measures which holds the transactions, pending verification of a code texted to HWT's son's phone.
4. HWT's son receives text(s) whilst on the phone to the bad guys. These are legit message(s) and very possibly sit on the same text thread as prior texts from the bank.
5. HWT's son reads out the code to the bad guys on the phone.
6. Bad guys enter the code into the website to complete their transaction.

So, to the bank it will 100% look as though HWT's son verified the transaction using their established anti-fraud process.

This explains the scam better.

Thanks

 

[CoolTed]

[MENTION=1200]Harry Wilson's tackle[/MENTION] Why did your son think the original call came from his bank? Had the crooks spoofed the bank's caller id?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

[MENTION=1200]Harry Wilson's tackle[/MENTION] Why did your son think the original call came from his bank? Had the crooks spoofed the bank's caller id?

They had his account number and mobile phone number. He has no idea how they got them.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

Thanks for that.

I just spoke to him. He has spoken to the bank and they are still saying 'your problem mate'. He has asked for details of the transactions and the bank gave him some phone numbers (?) that go to voicemail when he calls them. I have told him to call the bank again and tell them to give him full and proper details of from whom he has supposedly bought goods.

He has attempted to report this to action fraud but the line went dead in the middle of the call. He's phoned back and is on hold. Rather a lot of crime about today, it seems.

Cheers.

You can report it in the AF website to get a CRN, they will allocate to the National Fraud Investigation Unit who will allocate to the local force. The bank won’t do anything until they have been given a CRN, it’s not them being difficult, they expect it, if a crime has been committed

Good luck


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[Paulie Gualtieri]

Sadly it looks like it was his own naivety. He is extraordinarily trusting. This is nowhere near the worst episode his trust has triggered.

When I saw him earlier today he was in tears, poor sod. I have told him that whatever happens I'll replace the stolen money. In the meantime I have put him to work on (what appears to be a futile) attempt to get to the bottom of it. Good for the soul.

Thanks again for all those who have offered advice. It is greatly appreciated. I may well suggest the boy puts his bank on ignore (that suggestion made me smile) if they insist on being unhelpful. They could at least help him chase down the transactions with a little more engagement. I suspect the later Friday timing of the scam was done in the expectation that weekend staff may be manning the tills and phonelines....clever scam.

Nothing stopping you obtaining authority with the bank to speak on his behalf if that helps matters.

You need to be firm but fair (squeaky wheel and all that)

Take some comfort that they budget for operational fraud losses, it’s not over!


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[Harry Wilson's tackle]

You can report it in the AF website to get a CRN, they will allocate to the National Fraud Investigation Unit who will allocate to the local force. The bank won’t do anything until they have been given a CRN, it’s not them being difficult, they expect it, if a crime has been committed

Good luck


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He managed to do that earlier - cheers!

 

[CoolTed]

They had his account number and mobile phone number. He has no idea how they got them.

So what info about the incoming call was displayed on his mobile? "Private number", or an actual number that he did, or did not, recognise? And, apart from quoting his account number, did the crook provide him with any other info that would have given the 'I'm from the bank' claim credibility?
I ask because I managed to get a full refund for my brother-in-law on the grounds that he was right to be convinced that he was talking to his bank. But in his case the crook had spoofed the bank's caller ID, so his display was showing "HSBC".

 

[Live by the sea]

Sounds quite sophisticated. What I would say is that banks do not ring people about fraud - you would get a letter asking you to come into a branch .

Simple rule - never engage in any conversation regarding anything remotely financial on the phone . Would you if a stranger walked up to you in the street ?

 

[Weststander]

Sounds quite sophisticated. What I would say is that banks do not ring people about fraud - you would get a letter asking you to come into a branch .

Simple rule - never engage in any conversation regarding anything remotely financial on the phone . Would you if a stranger walked up to you in the street ?

First Direct do call.

My method is then to decline the call, and ring their main number, just in case.

 

[Justice]

If it was a card transaction the vendor hasn’t got any money yet surely the bank can put a stop to it?

 

[Iford Albion]

Really upsetting for him. One of my sons got scammed in a different way but got everything back once I spoke with lloyds and said I was going to get him to make a subject access request and pass all the info to my lawyer. This combined with all the other suggestions re crime reference and threat of ombudsman should get him 1200 back pretty quickly. Mine got 2 grand back after me speaking to a complaints manager for 30 mins. They do not want to send you all the audio and written records or deal with informed complaints because they are overwhelmed by frauds and it costs them loads to process SARS etc. . They tend to treat young customers with contempt because they tend to roll over and drop things. I often feel like I am getting payback for banks screwing me on loans and charges when I was a student. Just keep escalating the complaint and complain if they do not address the original complaint. Get a complaint reference each time and cite the distress it is causing each time. They will try and avoid giving you a complaint number. Just insist on it. Eventually they will roll over because they accept a level of attrition with these cases.

Just been on the phone with my son who has had his current account emptied by a scam today, and his bank (Lloyds) are saying 'tough luck'

Asking for advice.

So, today my son received a phone call from 'his bank' saying 'there has been some questionable transactions' and that they will txt him with the details. Txts duly arrive within seconds while man is on the phone with my son. Man on phone says 'can you confirm the details in the text we just sent you'. My son reads out the details. Bear in mind this is in real time - phone call, txts, requests to confirm numbers in txts.

Later my son finds his account has been emptied.

I told the boy to call Lloyds. He now reports they say they did not phone him, but they did txt him to ask him to confirm that transactions were legit, and that 'he' confirmed this to be the case.

So the events as far as I can see are these:

Someone stole my son's card details (my son still has the card) and attempted to buy stuff over £100 a pop online. The fraudulent person not only has my son's card details they also have his phone number. They attempt to buy online and queue some transactions. They then phone my son and give him a cock and bull story about fraudulent transactions. They say he will receive a txt asking him to confirm transactions as legitimate - in a minute or so. While they are on the phone to him they press 'buy'. While they are still on the phone to him, my son's bank then txts him to confirm the transactions as legit (I have a hard job with this over the timing - is a check when a transaction goes over a certain amount done that quick?). My son then tells them he has the texts and gives them enough info down the phone to prove this (here is how the fraud works - my son gave out details from the legit txt from the bank to the fraudster; yes the txt from the bank said 'don't share the info here with anyone' but....<doh>). Fraudster then contacts my son's bank to confirm the transactions as legit (not sure how the fraudster did this as the txts were sent to my son's phone - another possible security weakness at the bank?) using the details my son has inadvertenty passed on.

He has lost all his money (about £1200). Lloyds told him to sod off on the phone tonight because 'he' confirmed with Lloyds the transactions are legit. Except it was not my son who confirmed the transactions as legit to the bank, it was the fraudster.

My son needs to ask the bank what phone number confirmed the transactions as legitimate, because it won't be my son's phone, and ask what checks they used to confirm that the message they received from 'my son' was from him, I think. Apart from that does he have any othe legs to stand on?.

Damned good scam, eh? Takes nerve and timing. Get the card number somehow and the mobile phone number somehow and off you go. Be careful out there.

 

[AlbionBro]

Lloyds are an awful bank that said most are.
Banks and lawyers are never to be trusted. I recently had a young lawyer advising me on copyright.
She charged me, I paid. I then asked her one more question, which could have led her to a bigger payday, she chose to get on her high horse by saying ' I have already answered one of your questions in a lengthy manner and if you want more I will charge you extra and above to cover the last questions'.
I mentioned 'I have been in business for 40 years and would never expect you to do work for nothing, I am disappointed in your reply'. She replied 'I consented then, but under my GDPR right to retract consent I request that you delete the recording immediately. Please confirm in writing when this will be done'.
This is not how I do business.
What is it with banks and lawyers?

I wish your son luck with a refund.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

So what info about the incoming call was displayed on his mobile? "Private number", or an actual number that he did, or did not, recognise? And, apart from quoting his account number, did the crook provide him with any other info that would have given the 'I'm from the bank' claim credibility?
I ask because I managed to get a full refund for my brother-in-law on the grounds that he was right to be convinced that he was talking to his bank. But in his case the crook had spoofed the bank's caller ID, so his display was showing "HSBC".

Very good questions. I'll follow that up. Thanks. I'll leave it till tomorrow - give the boy a moment's respite.