[News] Net migration to UK hits record 336,000, statistics show

[mikeyjh]

We have to get out of the EU and only allow in people with the required skills from former commonwealth countries

What skills do you bring to the table? Can't we start by sending you somewhere else?

 

[Deleted member 22389]

23% of our doctors are immigrants.

I spoke to a trainee midwife yesterday, once complete it would have cost her 30k to train. I told her I think it's disgusting our governments don't do more to promote and financially help people like herself from this country and she agreed with me.

 

[glasfryn]

You'll need to provide a source for that as I think you desperately made it up, as I remember the Express and Sun originally quoting about 1/2 a million. Lot more than the 10,000the cameron promised.

changed for you
it was cameron who came on Southern TV and said that it would be no more than 10.000
and he always goes red when he lies ...........................or is that his high blood pressure

 

[cunning fergus]

Part of the problem is the emigration of UK - trained/educated medical staff. Crap conditions, crap pay, continued cuts........highly sought after overseas due to the quality of education and training we provide (at the taxpayers expense). Make it better for them to stay and they will.......

I agree with you to a point, however for many Doctors and other NHS staff it is not true about crap pay and conditions.

For many the pay and conditions are very good, albeit I don't doubt there are challenges. Even lower down the scale many nurses are able to retire and get re-hired this is double bubble for those able to swing this dodge.

Nonetheless, taking your point I think the U.K. Taxpayer should be compensated if people who have benefitted from state investment decide to leave the NHS, particularly for an alternative role in another first world economy. This could be arranged with the individual or their new employer.

If other countries did the same it may halt the damaging trading of health staff which, as always disadvantages the poorest countries the most. If the UK wanted to take a moral stance on this damaging trade the NHS should refuse to employ health staff from poor countries.

If we took such a stance we could take money from the foreign aid budget and ad it to the "compensation fund" and use it to train our own nurses/staff, places for which are currently oversubscribed.

Win win.

 

[Soulman]

What about the unskilled people born here? Should we remove them too?

Of course not, has anyone that doesn't agree with this amount of immigration suggested this. Controlled immigration is the issue with most that are making their points. So 336000 a year is Ok with you, fair enough but trying to make out that our unskilled born here is an issue is just diverting.

 

[darkwolf666]

I spoke to a trainee midwife yesterday, once complete it would have cost her 30k to train. I told her I think it's disgusting our governments don't do more to promote and financially help people like herself from this country and she agreed with me.

People may have missed on the Autumn statement that trainee nurses are having their bursaries taken away, so now they have to take out loans, which will obviously have to be paid back. The consequence of this will be less home grown talent and more flown in from abroad where the training is cheaper and as recent evidence has proven, not always on a par with that achieved at home.

 

[dazzer6666]

I agree with you to a point, however for many Doctors and other NHS staff it is not true about crap pay and conditions.

For many the pay and conditions are very good, albeit I don't doubt there are challenges. Even lower down the scale many nurses are able to retire and get re-hired this is double bubble for those able to swing this dodge.

Nonetheless, taking your point I think the U.K. Taxpayer should be compensated if people who have benefitted from state investment decide to leave the NHS, particularly for an alternative role in another first world economy. This could be arranged with the individual or their new employer.

If other countries did the same it may halt the damaging trading of health staff which, as always disadvantages the poorest countries the most. If the UK wanted to take a moral stance on this damaging trade the NHS should refuse to employ health staff from poor countries.

If we took such a stance we could take money from the foreign aid budget and ad it to the "compensation fund" and use it to train our own nurses/staff, places for which are currently oversubscribed.

Win win.

Might work.........maybe students on medical/nursing degrees should have to pay for their courses like other graduates (using loans), with the loans interest-free and non repayable and written off after say 10 years of NHS service or something. Bit like buying yourself out of the army etc.

 

[alfredmizen]

Might work.........maybe students on medical/nursing degrees should have to pay for their courses like other graduates (using loans), with the loans interest-free and non repayable and written off after say 10 years of NHS service or something. Bit like buying yourself out of the army etc.

This ^^^^, I saw nursing students on the news yesterday talking about bursaries , I didn't catch it all, but are they being withdrawn ? If so then that is utterly ridiculous if we want to train our own health professionals.

 

[alfredmizen]

People may have missed on the Autumn statement that trainee nurses are having their bursaries taken away, so now they have to take out loans, which will obviously have to be paid back. The consequence of this will be less home grown talent and more flown in from abroad where the training is cheaper and as recent evidence has proven, not always on a par with that achieved at home.

just seen your post, this is utterly, utterly ridiculous , if we want to train our own health professionals , makes me so angry.

 

[Mo Gosfield]

We will reap what we sow.
Allowing our population to continue to rise, unabated over the next few years, will change the landscape of this country forever. Our children and grand-children will not enjoy the quality of life that we have enjoyed. All services will be affected. Schools will be overcrowded and the quality of education will diminish. Hospitals and surgeries will have longer and longer waiting lists. Prisons will be full to bursting and more criminals and undesirables will be released early. Key arterial routes will become more and more congested. Driving will become more and more aggressive, as frustration mounts. Goods and services will take longer to move around.
The finite resources of this small island will eventually start to struggle to cope. In 20 years time, we will have 30% too many people for our resources. We will have to continue to build a new house every 7 minutes for the next 20 years to keep up with demand and the green belt between towns will get narrower and narrower.
Oh...what the heck...no one else seems bothered...I'm off to the footie.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

23% of our doctors are immigrants.

A vast majority of whom are not EU citizens and will have required visas to come here ..... i.e. we decided we needed their skills and allowed them to come. A luxury we don't have with EU citizens - any old person can come regardless of them having a skill we need.

 

[dazzer6666]

This ^^^^, I saw nursing students on the news yesterday talking about bursaries , I didn't catch it all, but are they being withdrawn ? If so then that is utterly ridiculous if we want to train our own health professionals.

Yes, there are plans to withdraw them......if they are going to make nurses etc pay for their courses, and not pay bursaries, the minimum they have to do instead is pay them for their medical placements they have to do each term, where they are essentially being used as free labour. They are not like other students - there simply isn't the time to take on part-time jobs.

It's fair to put something in place that ties them to the NHS for a period after qualification though - hence the loan, then it being written off at some point might work.

http://www.theguardian.com/society/...orne-considers-axeing-student-nurse-bursaries

 

[alfredmizen]

Yes, there are plans to withdraw them......if they are going to make nurses etc pay for their courses, and not pay bursaries, the minimum they have to do instead is pay them for their medical placements they have to do each term, where they are essentially being used as free labour. They are not like other students - there simply isn't the time to take on part-time jobs.

It's fair to put something in place that ties them to the NHS for a period after qualification though - hence the loan, then it being written off at some point might work.

http://www.theguardian.com/society/...orne-considers-axeing-student-nurse-bursaries

Unbelievably short sighted, though there is a school of thought that doesn't think nursing training should be a degree course in the first place, but that's not the issue here.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

A vast majority of whom are not EU citizens and will have required visas to come here ..... i.e. we decided we needed their skills and allowed them to come. A luxury we don't have with EU citizens - any old person can come regardless of them having a skill we need.

But unemployment is at it's lowest for years. There was an article on the BBC a couple of days ago where a chocolate manufacturer was desperate for Christmas workers to get it's orders out in time. Packing chocolates for dispatch doesn't require much skill.

 

[cunning fergus]

But unemployment is at it's lowest for years. There was an article on the BBC a couple of days ago where a chocolate manufacturer was desperate for Christmas workers to get it's orders out in time. Packing chocolates for dispatch doesn't require much skill.

I think it's a more complex picture, yesterday on the BBC news they portrayed hard working Romanians at a car wash earning £40 a day.

These car washes never seem short of staff to do that job and they rarely seem to be British workers.

It's a good job they are here though, keeping our cars clean, powering the economy and flushing all that tax they generate money through the coffers.

 

[BigGully]

But unemployment is at it's lowest for years. There was an article on the BBC a couple of days ago where a chocolate manufacturer was desperate for Christmas workers to get it's orders out in time. Packing chocolates for dispatch doesn't require much skill.

On this point I am yet to be convinced.

When did certain sectors suddenly get stripped of comparable UK labour.

Hotels, the NHS, the building trade etc. have functioned competently before any influx of overseas labour, remembering that mass immigration wasn't initiated due to this but has since become a political reason why it might be beneficial.

I cannot accept that we just shut down training pathways for necessary skills whilst eastern Europe and Africa has some sort of sophisticated and vibrant training strategies that we havent !!

I suspect that the benefit system has a part to play, but even that has always been in place and prior to the current immigration has always in my view been too generous, yet jobs were filled by UK labour.

There must be an obvious displacement of UK labour with such an influx of overseas labour, but why would it be deemed necessary ??

 

[cunning fergus]

Might work.........maybe students on medical/nursing degrees should have to pay for their courses like other graduates (using loans), with the loans interest-free and non repayable and written off after say 10 years of NHS service or something. Bit like buying yourself out of the army etc.

Every year we can afford billions of pounds to be handed over to the EU and billions of pounds to be given away to economic superpowers like China and India. I'm sure more intelligent minds than ours would surely be able to come up with a way of deciding how to use such money to pay for training UK health staff.

Either way staff leaving for better opportunities should re-pay the state...........a sliding scale based on years served. I have no doubt that would help ease this "crisis".

 

[Bevendean Hillbilly]

335k net migration 773k current vacancies in the UK job market. 1.4m unemployed. What's wrong with this picture?

Even the enlightened employers who are trying hard to recruit UK nationals by offering apprenticeships and on the job training report that they cannot find the right applicants with the appropriate skills, aptitude or attitude and are forced to recruit Eastern Europeans to fill the gaps.

We have a choice between a growing economy reliant on migrant labour and a stagnant one stuck in a skills gap. The downside of migration is obviously going to be a change in the UK cultural picture. We can embrace it or reject it. It's up to us.

 

[alfredmizen]

335k net migration 773k current vacancies in the UK job market. 1.4m unemployed. What's wrong with this picture?

Even the enlightened employers who are trying hard to recruit UK nationals by offering apprenticeships and on the job training report that they cannot find the right applicants with the appropriate skills, aptitude or attitude and are forced to recruit Eastern Europeans to fill the gaps.

We have a choice between a growing economy reliant on migrant labour and a stagnant one stuck in a skills gap. The downside of migration is obviously going to be a change in the UK cultural picture. We can embrace it or reject it. It's up to us.

Ive just searched government ''apprenticeships'' , an absolute pisstake , you do an apprenticeship in carpentry,. engineering , bricklaying etc , i found apprenticeships in health and social care, retail, and warehousing to name but 3 , so thats basically apprenticeships in wiping arses in an old peoples home, working in a shop and stacking goods in a warehouse , lets see how high they rate on the required skills list of somewhere like canada or australia shall we ? We are being taken for fools when governments , both tory and labour talk about apprenticeships.

 

[Diego Napier]

So your point is to continue with the contemporary narrative of Britain as an ancient multi cultural country with unfettered immigration and everyone all just rubbing along?

Sorry I don't buy it because it's not true...........ignoring what happened 25,000 years ago Britain has long been a mono cultural country with emigration a far greater factor than immigration.

The wider Anglo Saxon world would not exist without British emigration...........a contribution which has much more significance, than focusing on a few thousand refugees here and there during the course of the last 500 years.[/QUOTE]

You are wrong. Refugees arriving in this country over the last 500 years total hundreds of thousands not just a few. You also ignore the fact that the indigenous population was far smaller hence the impact of the new arrivals far greater.

I agree that Britain gradually became more unified in the 17th Century after the dust had settled from the Protestant reformation and Scottish wars of independence. However, to suggest that we have a history of mono culturalism that embraced the centuries of social division, squalor and deprivation imposed by feudal law and its lasting malign and pernicious influence is to view our past through a particularly rosy royalist prism.

I agree that the wider Anglo Saxon world (and the British Empire) would not exist without British emigration, fuelled by aggressive, expansionist policies and wars. What is certain is that the emigration associated with all that aggression would have included recycled British citizens who were originally refugees to our shores. The wider Anglo Saxon world; is that a good thing?

I'm not suggesting that unfettered immigration is a good thing. What I am saying though is that things never stay the same; there is no long golden period when we were British and proud and all our citizens were happy and everything was fine and we were mono cultural; we have been and always will be in flux. I understand that hysterical headlines will always garner avid readers but come on, let's stop viewing the world in black and white.