Nelson Mandela ill

[TopCorner]

Sad day, he hasn't got long left.

 

[readingstockport]

<snip of sydneys explanation>.

But you still evidently know shit about the history of the ANC, MK or Madiba. How can that be? He was not a naughty man. The ANC were an entirely peaceful orgiansation until they were banned and even after being banned MK undertook actions almost enitrley only against 'organs of the state' and always strove to avoid civilian casualties. Compared to the number of blacks being slaughterred by the whites the actions of some people in the liberation struggle pale into insignificance.

 

[Buzzer]

Not black & white at all, I'm well aware- I have plenty of friends from the region. And agree completely about Zimbabwe - which is barking mad chaos, rather than bearing any resemblance to socialism, for which I have no axe to grind, just find it dim bizarre to hear it used as an insult on any kind of a par with the appalling regime which Mandela was fighting. So yes, plaudits to de klerk, despite his having come from that racist, murderous regime.

I just don't like socialism very much. It's no big deal.

 

[aolstudios]

we will need to expand on this one so as to get full value from the argument ........my wifes family moved from cornwall to capetown in the late 1800's , her great,great,great grandmother was commissioned by the humanitarian society to document and take photographs of what they called progeny/indiginy back then ( yes all very white misschief i know ) i first went to s,a in 84 .......loved it , no bother, hitched from capetown to harare and back over 4 months ( this was with a head full,of dread locks btw,so it does rather irk me to be called a racist as i am anything but )i have spent some of the best days of my life in africa, kariba , caboassa boro, vic falls , nyanga, knysna, kruger ..........and also had a look round soweto,mitchells plains , kyeleitsha and cape flats.........madiba is a wonderful man and an outstanding ambassador for the south african people but he was, back in his day ,a very naughty boy........to be called a facist/racist/cock by you cvnts is quite frankly , rediculous.

don't think for a second you're any of those things but s.a in 1984 might've been no bother for you but for the black majority it was a civil & human rights nightmare. , Also, as stated previously - a naughty boy, just like the french resistance, arab spring freedom fighters, the british if we'd lost the war...

 

[sydney]

But you still evidently know shit about the history of the ANC, MK or Madiba. How can that be?[/QUOTE
MK...go on..?

 

[sydney]

don't think for a second you're any of those things but s.a in 1984 might've been no bother for you but for the black majority it was a civil & human rights nightmare. , Also, as stated previously - a naughty boy, just like the french resistance, arab spring freedom fighters, the british if we'd lost the war...

agreed , was there last year and the black masses are absolutely (unfortunately)no better off under the anc than they were under de klerk, if anything they are worse off.

 

[Tricky Dicky]

There ought to be a poll attached to every thread, so we could vote on how many posts it will take to reach a binfest, rather than unbiased, intelligent, articulate debate.

 

[sydney]

there are a few twatts on here , i think we need to make allowances for posters home life situation before getting too upset about what gets posted on here to be honest , jesus h christ.

 

[Varndean VI Form College]

there are a few twatts on here , i think we need to make allowances for posters home life situation before getting too upset about what gets posted on here to be honest , jesus h christ.

racist cock - keep your racist views for BNP meetings you wanker

 

[sydney]

racist cock - keep your racist views for BNP meetings you wanker

what the f*** are you on about , you twatt...?? put that liquid paper down son before it gets jammed up yer hooter.

 

[sydney]

I watched pretty much all of the world cup 2010 and I once ate some biltong, I think Mandela mellowed into a fairly normal old man but had a chequered past involving violence and murder or at least the sanctioning of murder. It may well have been a good cause but he isn't a saint and doesn't deserve to be hero worshipped and have the worlds tongue up his arse. He has undoubtedly achieved far more good than bad In his lifetime however some of the comments on here from the deny he did anything wrong brigade are rather Ill informed.

wow how did you get away with that ...?

 

[Southern Scouse]

I have always been in two minds about Mandela.
In general is it right to use violence to get what you want? Forget the reason's why, is it right?
For every freedom fighter there is a terrorist. He has a presence no doubt and has turned South Africa around. Where the PLO terrorists? Were ETA freedom fighters?
At the end of the day freedom fighters and terrorists kill normal, peace loving civilians going about their daily business. How can that be right?

 

[eastlondonseagull]

No more a criminal than the french resistance, libyan resistance fighters, syrian... oh, & the founders of the Iraeli state. Don't be dim

This, massively.

 

[KZNSeagull]

agreed , was there last year and the black masses are absolutely (unfortunately)no better off under the anc than they were under de klerk, if anything they are worse off.

Based upon what?

I am no ANC apologist, but here are a few facts that you may not know about:

% population with access to clean drinking water in 2011 was 93% (62% in 1994)
% population with access to electricity in 2011 was 84% (34% in 1994),
+-435 social houses for the poor have been built every working DAY since 1994.
In 2010, 13.5 million people in SA received Social Grants (2.5 million in 1994).

There are now 1.2 million black people who earn more than the average white salary.
In the last 10 years, the average white person’s income rose by 5.3% per annum, whereas the average black person’s income rose by 14.9% per annum. If the income gap continues to close at the same rate, there will be no income gap in less than 10 years.

There is a hell of a lot wrong with this country and the masses are still struggling, but I think they would prefer the way things are now than go back to pre-94. Anyone who says that they are now worse off, usually has a rather sinister agenda, in my experience.

 

[Don Quixote]

if you take a look at the person he was before prison (or more the person he says he was in his book) and the person he was once being freed and elected it simply makes no sense at all how he turned from freedom fighter to robotic clone politician...

rumours are Nelson Mandela is a Knight of Malta. and was allowed to reach the position of power due to keeping quiet about the origin of AIDS and various other things that made sure the game was rigged.

oh, and his misses ordered lots of torture.....


icon of the times? not for me...

He isn't a catholic...

 

[aolstudios]

I have always been in two minds about Mandela.
In general is it right to use violence to get what you want? Forget the reason's why, is it right?
For every freedom fighter there is a terrorist. He has a presence no doubt and has turned South Africa around. Where the PLO terrorists? Were ETA freedom fighters?
At the end of the day freedom fighters and terrorists kill normal, peace loving civilians going about their daily business. How can that be right?

not right but we killed plenty of innocent civilians in the war. And refer to previous posts re arab spring, syria freedom fighters, founders of Israeli state...

 

[Varndean VI Form College]

Based upon what?

I am no ANC apologist, but here are a few facts that you may not know about:

% population with access to clean drinking water in 2011 was 93% (62% in 1994)
% population with access to electricity in 2011 was 84% (34% in 1994),
+-435 social houses for the poor have been built every working DAY since 1994.
In 2010, 13.5 million people in SA received Social Grants (2.5 million in 1994).

There are now 1.2 million black people who earn more than the average white salary.
In the last 10 years, the average white person’s income rose by 5.3% per annum, whereas the average black person’s income rose by 14.9% per annum. If the income gap continues to close at the same rate, there will be no income gap in less than 10 years.

There is a hell of a lot wrong with this country and the masses are still struggling, but I think they would prefer the way things are now than go back to pre-94. ARnyone who says that they are now worse off, usually has a rather sinister agenda, in my experience.

Exactly sir, sinister indeed. Thanks for posting.

 

[Seagull kimchi]

Ghandi cut his teeth in SA - maybe he drew his pacifistic, civil dis-obedience ideals after what he saw in SA.

 

[Lady Whistledown]

He isn't a catholic...

How did we all know Brunswick would have a conspiracy theory about this?

Are there any world leaders, anywhere, who didn't achieve their position via shady, mysterious illuminati groups, I'd like to know? It really doesn't say much for us all that we keep letting this happen to us.

 

[sydney]

Based upon what?

I am no ANC apologist, but here are a few facts that you may not know about:

% population with access to clean drinking water in 2011 was 93% (62% in 1994)
% population with access to electricity in 2011 was 84% (34% in 1994),
+-435 social houses for the poor have been built every working DAY since 1994.
In 2010, 13.5 million people in SA received Social Grants (2.5 million in 1994).

There are now 1.2 million black people who earn more than the average white salary.
In the last 10 years, the average white person’s income rose by 5.3% per annum, whereas the average black person’s income rose by 14.9% per annum. If the income gap continues to close at the same rate, there will be no income gap in less than 10 years.

There is a hell of a lot wrong with this country and the masses are still struggling, but I think they would prefer the way things are now than go back to pre-94. Anyone who says that they are now worse off, usually has a rather sinister agenda, in my experience.

i have no agenda at all .........why would i for FS , i love SA, it's a beautiful country ........the one thing that AFRICA doesn't do well is politics , i hope Nelson Mandela makes a full recovery from his operation and hopefully he has a few more good years in him .